Cons say the government doesn't create jobs....

[Boss]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

 

[rightwinger]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

 

[Boss]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

 

[rightwinger]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

 

[Boss]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

 

[rightwinger]

They create a benefit to society.......someone has to do them

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

 

[kazvorpal]

You mean the ones rebuilding infrastructure in Iraq & Afghanistan? Schools, hospitals, those?

Infrastructure that our military, and economic terrorism (sanctions) destroyed in the first place.

But the net result of that "nation building" has been a dozen-plus years of economic malaise in the US, plus local quality of life in Iraq and Afghanistan that are lower than before we started meddling in the first place.

 

[kazvorpal]

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

Let's be clear:

The problem in Somalia isn't lack of government, it's TOO MUCH government. The parts of that country crippled by poverty and violence are the ones ruled by iron-fisted warlords. From a governmental power standpoint, they are a Liberal/socialist's wet dream, they simply aren't doing what authority worshipers claim to want to be done...but those warlords' abuse of their power demonstrate the INEVITABLE result of authoritarian government. It will ALWAYS abuse its power, in one way or another, unless it is restrained to only protecting our property rights when we invite it to do so. The more power you give government, the more it will abuse you.

 

[kazvorpal]

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

A free market may or may not work without government protecting private property rights. But what YOU imagine to be "essentials" probably includes many things the government HARMS society by monopolizing, like education, water, hospitals, mail, currency, and roads. All of those things would be better provided by a free market, which is illustrated in part by how the government has to use force to maintain its dominance in those industries.

 

[rightwinger]

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

A free market may or may not work without government protecting private property rights. But what YOU imagine to be "essentials" probably includes many things the government HARMS society by monopolizing, like education, water, hospitals, mail, currency, and roads. All of those things would be better provided by a free market, which is illustrated in part by how the government has to use force to maintain its dominance in those industries.

That makes absolutely no sense.....could you expand what you posted?

 

[Boss]

A benefit to society doesn't buy a ham sandwich. When the government creates a job, nothing in terms of revenue income is produced. So the cost of the job far surpasses the benefit economically. You get a small percentage back in taxes and the rest is simply lost productivity from the private sector. It doesn't benefit the economy because the cost of the job has to be paid and there is no return. Benefits to society are done, but that doesn't stimulate the economy.

And even the government worker you hired and paid to produce nothing, could have been available to work in the private sector helping the economy. So you have taken potential productivity in the private sector out of the game.

There has never been a nation in human history who has succeeded in building an economy on government jobs. That's the stark reality you need to face here. We can create silly imaginative philosophies about how government workers spend money and pay taxes and that grows the economy... but the bottom line is, this will not sustain a national economy.

Sooner or later it collapses because it's basically a Ponzi scheme.

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

Again, moron... NO ONE is complaining about essential services. Conservative arguments for smaller more limited government do not call for removal of essential services. Demanding FEDERAL government adhere to Article I Section 8 of the Constitution is not radical extremism.

I never said the government ONLY functions as a drain on the economy and I disagree with that statement. There are lots of things government can do to stimulate private sector job creation, for instance. And Obama has proven the government is capable of printing and borrowing enough trillions of dollars to keep the economy's head above water for 8 years.

My argument is against the type of government and society you want. You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

So what is the solution here? Do we need to have a war? Because we can't seem to effectively communicate anymore and all efforts at trying to have civil discourse are ending in failure. I know it seems rather far-fetched, but seriously... that's exactly how civil wars start.

 

[Boss]

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

A free market may or may not work without government protecting private property rights. But what YOU imagine to be "essentials" probably includes many things the government HARMS society by monopolizing, like education, water, hospitals, mail, currency, and roads. All of those things would be better provided by a free market, which is illustrated in part by how the government has to use force to maintain its dominance in those industries.

You actually quoted rightwinger here and not me. He is lying about me claiming the government only functions as a drain on the economy. See, there is no "fine tuner" for rightwinger... it's a two-way switch... We either have full-blown Fascist-Communism where government controls/provides everything OR we have complete and total anarchy with no government at all. There is no in-between.

You are absolutely correct, the private sector and free market capitalism is always better than a government "solution" to a problem. The education system couldn't be a better example. We're spending tens of thousands of dollars per student per year to woefully and inadequately churn out illiterate morons as high school graduates. We trail the rest of the free world in education because we've adopted a Communist public education system. Meanwhile, the private sector solutions of home schooling, magnet and charter schools, and private or religious schools, are producing far better educated students year in and year out.

 

[rightwinger]

Utter nonsense

Infrastructure helps society, it creates a lasting impact on commerce. Commerce does not exist without infrastructure
Free education helps society. An educated workforce is essential for a modern society
Security and defense help a society
A legal system is necessary for business to function
A solid monetary system helps society. Business flourishes under a solid monetary system
Clean air, clean water, safe food and drugs all help society

Your "Government doesn't create anything" is total bullshit

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

Again, moron... NO ONE is complaining about essential services. Conservative arguments for smaller more limited government do not call for removal of essential services. Demanding FEDERAL government adhere to Article I Section 8 of the Constitution is not radical extremism.

I never said the government ONLY functions as a drain on the economy and I disagree with that statement. There are lots of things government can do to stimulate private sector job creation, for instance. And Obama has proven the government is capable of printing and borrowing enough trillions of dollars to keep the economy's head above water for 8 years.

My argument is against the type of government and society you want. You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

So what is the solution here? Do we need to have a war? Because we can't seem to effectively communicate anymore and all efforts at trying to have civil discourse are ending in failure. I know it seems rather far-fetched, but seriously... that's exactly how civil wars start.

You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

Demonstrating beyond a doubt who the moron is

Nobody is advocating a communist system, it is obvious you are clueless as to what that is

I do not advocate a big government or a small government. I advocate a right sized government as determined by We the People

 

[kazvorpal]

That makes absolutely no sense.....could you expand what yopu posted?

Which part?

Government's useful and legitimate role is protecting our property rights. It can do this through courts functioning as arbitrators (without the absolute power of the current system), a police force solely empowered to investigate violation of and defend private property, a record system to determine who created some art or uses some logo, that sort of thing.

But it is incompetent to provide "infrastructure", as our crumbling system reveals. It cannot educate, as our failed public schools show. Its control and often ownership of hospitals is part of the cause of the "health care crisis" just as similar control caused banking crises in the 19th century. The USPS is a joke, and was even 180 years ago when it first usurped its monopoly, forcing a private mail competitor out of business. And roads are the most absurd government monopoly of all...does anyone really believe that Wal Mart and real estate developers would simply construct buildings in fields and wonder why nobody came? No, of course anywhere we need roads, the demand would produce better, cheaper, even less environmentally destructive ones than a government monopoly.

 

[rightwinger]

That makes absolutely no sense.....could you expand what yopu posted?

Which part?

Government's useful and legitimate role is protecting our property rights. It can do this through courts functioning as arbitrators (without the absolute power of the current system), a police force solely empowered to investigate violation of and defend private property, a record system to determine who created some art or uses some logo, that sort of thing.

But it is incompetent to provide "infrastructure", as our crumbling system reveals. It cannot educate, as our failed public schools show. Its control and often ownership of hospitals is part of the cause of the "health care crisis" just as similar control caused banking crises in the 19th century. The USPS is a joke, and was even 180 years ago when it first usurped its monopoly, forcing a private mail competitor out of business. And roads are the most absurd government monopoly of all...does anyone really believe that Wal Mart and real estate developers would simply construct buildings in fields and wonder why nobody came? No, of course anywhere we need roads, the demand would produce better, cheaper, even less environmentally destructive ones than a government monopoly.

Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?
The government owns a small percentage of the hospitals, our healthcare crisis is due to the escallating costs and accessability
The USPS will send a letter from my house in NJ to my cousins house in California for 50 cents.....nobody in the private sector can match it

 

[Boss]

We're not talking about "helping society" we're talking about growing the economy in a free market system. No one has suggested we don't need infrastructure or that we shouldn't fund it. There is no such thing as "free" education or "free" anything else... and again, this isn't about education, no one is suggesting we do away with education. No one is suggesting we do away with defense, the legal system, monetary system or have dirty water and air... bad drugs and food... etc. Finally, I never said government doesn't "create" anything. Clearly, government creates debt!

You are like a smart-ass punk 8-year-old sitting at the kitchen table with the grown ups discussing the family budget. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but you think you're the smartest person in the room and no one can tell you anything. Every post you've made is chock full of unbelievable naive idiocy about the ways of the world and reality. Free education? ...This is one example of your supreme idiocy on display.

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

Again, moron... NO ONE is complaining about essential services. Conservative arguments for smaller more limited government do not call for removal of essential services. Demanding FEDERAL government adhere to Article I Section 8 of the Constitution is not radical extremism.

I never said the government ONLY functions as a drain on the economy and I disagree with that statement. There are lots of things government can do to stimulate private sector job creation, for instance. And Obama has proven the government is capable of printing and borrowing enough trillions of dollars to keep the economy's head above water for 8 years.

My argument is against the type of government and society you want. You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

So what is the solution here? Do we need to have a war? Because we can't seem to effectively communicate anymore and all efforts at trying to have civil discourse are ending in failure. I know it seems rather far-fetched, but seriously... that's exactly how civil wars start.

You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

Demonstrating beyond a doubt who the moron is

Nobody is advocating a communist system, it is obvious you are clueless as to what that is

I do not advocate a big government or a small government. I advocate a right sized government as determined by We the People

Well, you are here constantly belittling the free market private sector capitalist system and touting the greatness of government doing things to "help" the people... so it certainly does sound like you are a little Vladimir Lenin. Why do liberal fruit loops run away from what they are? Embrace it! Be a proud Commie! I'd actually have more respect for you guys. This constant whining about me calling your political views communist is not very productive. It's what you are advocating, that's what it's called. And YES, I do happen to know what that is because I've studied political history extensively.

You do not want private sector capitalist solutions, your first knee-jerk reaction to ANY problem is to run to government and let them "FIX" it... but they never fix anything. You want to burden free market private sector capitalists with excessive and confiscatory taxes in order for your behemoth government to "help" people... but they don't help anyone except their fat cat cronies and donors. And finally... you REALLY don't want what We The People want! You want the government to decide what we have and then run around telling everyone that was the will of the people. You want the government to restrict our options as people, to limit our ability to thrive financially or achieve success and again, claim this was the will of the people.

The "right-sized" Federal government is one that adheres to Article I Section 8 and operates on a balanced budget. We are currently a FAR cry from that and you are yelping for more government spending and taxing. This idea cannot be sustained.

 

[Boss]

That makes absolutely no sense.....could you expand what yopu posted?

Which part?

Government's useful and legitimate role is protecting our property rights. It can do this through courts functioning as arbitrators (without the absolute power of the current system), a police force solely empowered to investigate violation of and defend private property, a record system to determine who created some art or uses some logo, that sort of thing.

But it is incompetent to provide "infrastructure", as our crumbling system reveals. It cannot educate, as our failed public schools show. Its control and often ownership of hospitals is part of the cause of the "health care crisis" just as similar control caused banking crises in the 19th century. The USPS is a joke, and was even 180 years ago when it first usurped its monopoly, forcing a private mail competitor out of business. And roads are the most absurd government monopoly of all...does anyone really believe that Wal Mart and real estate developers would simply construct buildings in fields and wonder why nobody came? No, of course anywhere we need roads, the demand would produce better, cheaper, even less environmentally destructive ones than a government monopoly.

Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?
The government owns a small percentage of the hospitals, our healthcare crisis is due to the escallating costs and accessability
The USPS will send a letter from my house in NJ to my cousins house in California for 50 cents.....nobody in the private sector can match it

Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?

Hmmm.... Has anyone EVER encountered a privately-owned toll road?

The government owns a small percentage of the hospitals...

And government regulates 100% of the hospitals as well as all clinics, doctors offices, medical centers, patient care centers, hospice, nursing homes, insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry, medical supply industry, food services... on and on and on and on. The COST is due to all of the government regulation from top to bottom.

The USPS will send a letter from my house in NJ to my cousins house in California...

Honestly, in 2015... why would you and your cousin require this service? You see it really bothers me that we're wasting billions of tax dollars every year to provide you and your cousin an antiquated method of communicating for cheap. I can see where those billions could be better used.

...nobody in the private sector can match it.

Well of course they can't because we are supplementing it with our tax dollars. Not many private-sector capitalist ventures can compete with an entity that doesn't have to show a profit or worry about revenues.

 

[rightwinger]

Move to Somalia and see your business prosper

An effective government grows the economy, that is why we have the strongest economy in the world and Somalia doesn't. The government creates jobs in both the private and public sector, those jobs help the economy overall.

Why are you bringing up Somalia? They aren't a free market capitalist economy. The reason we have the strongest economy in the world is because it is based on free market economic principles and free enterprise capitalism. But you are opposed to free market capitalism because it creates millionaires and billionaires and contributes to the widening gap between "rich" and "poor" people. You prefer a Communist system.

A free market capitalist system does not function without government providing essentials to the economy. Your claim that government only functions as a drain on the economy is ludicrous

Again, moron... NO ONE is complaining about essential services. Conservative arguments for smaller more limited government do not call for removal of essential services. Demanding FEDERAL government adhere to Article I Section 8 of the Constitution is not radical extremism.

I never said the government ONLY functions as a drain on the economy and I disagree with that statement. There are lots of things government can do to stimulate private sector job creation, for instance. And Obama has proven the government is capable of printing and borrowing enough trillions of dollars to keep the economy's head above water for 8 years.

My argument is against the type of government and society you want. You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

So what is the solution here? Do we need to have a war? Because we can't seem to effectively communicate anymore and all efforts at trying to have civil discourse are ending in failure. I know it seems rather far-fetched, but seriously... that's exactly how civil wars start.

You see, I want a Constitutional representative republic where free market capitalism and free enterprise are cherished and embraced. You want a Communist system where the government runs and controls everything and takes care of your every need. Both systems can't coexist and we can't change back and forth every 8 years depending on the letter beside the President's name.

Demonstrating beyond a doubt who the moron is

Nobody is advocating a communist system, it is obvious you are clueless as to what that is

I do not advocate a big government or a small government. I advocate a right sized government as determined by We the People

Well, you are here constantly belittling the free market private sector capitalist system and touting the greatness of government doing things to "help" the people... so it certainly does sound like you are a little Vladimir Lenin. Why do liberal fruit loops run away from what they are? Embrace it! Be a proud Commie! I'd actually have more respect for you guys. This constant whining about me calling your political views communist is not very productive. It's what you are advocating, that's what it's called. And YES, I do happen to know what that is because I've studied political history extensively.

You do not want private sector capitalist solutions, your first knee-jerk reaction to ANY problem is to run to government and let them "FIX" it... but they never fix anything. You want to burden free market private sector capitalists with excessive and confiscatory taxes in order for your behemoth government to "help" people... but they don't help anyone except their fat cat cronies and donors. And finally... you REALLY don't want what We The People want! You want the government to decide what we have and then run around telling everyone that was the will of the people. You want the government to restrict our options as people, to limit our ability to thrive financially or achieve success and again, claim this was the will of the people.

The "right-sized" Federal government is one that adheres to Article I Section 8 and operates on a balanced budget. We are currently a FAR cry from that and you are yelping for more government spending and taxing. This idea cannot be sustained.

Once again, the morons equate the government actually doing things to help the people with communism

I welcome the private sector to do things to help people. Pay a fair wage, contribute to the society from which you benefit, provide safe products that do not hurt the environment, acknowledge that your workers actually have lives

Until they voluntarily do those things, We the People will have to rely on the Government

 

[rightwinger]

That makes absolutely no sense.....could you expand what yopu posted?

Which part?

Government's useful and legitimate role is protecting our property rights. It can do this through courts functioning as arbitrators (without the absolute power of the current system), a police force solely empowered to investigate violation of and defend private property, a record system to determine who created some art or uses some logo, that sort of thing.

But it is incompetent to provide "infrastructure", as our crumbling system reveals. It cannot educate, as our failed public schools show. Its control and often ownership of hospitals is part of the cause of the "health care crisis" just as similar control caused banking crises in the 19th century. The USPS is a joke, and was even 180 years ago when it first usurped its monopoly, forcing a private mail competitor out of business. And roads are the most absurd government monopoly of all...does anyone really believe that Wal Mart and real estate developers would simply construct buildings in fields and wonder why nobody came? No, of course anywhere we need roads, the demand would produce better, cheaper, even less environmentally destructive ones than a government monopoly.

Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?
The government owns a small percentage of the hospitals, our healthcare crisis is due to the escallating costs and accessability
The USPS will send a letter from my house in NJ to my cousins house in California for 50 cents.....nobody in the private sector can match it

Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?

Hmmm.... Has anyone EVER encountered a privately-owned toll road?

The government owns a small percentage of the hospitals...

And government regulates 100% of the hospitals as well as all clinics, doctors offices, medical centers, patient care centers, hospice, nursing homes, insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry, medical supply industry, food services... on and on and on and on. The COST is due to all of the government regulation from top to bottom.

The USPS will send a letter from my house in NJ to my cousins house in California...

Honestly, in 2015... why would you and your cousin require this service? You see it really bothers me that we're wasting billions of tax dollars every year to provide you and your cousin an antiquated method of communicating for cheap. I can see where those billions could be better used.

...nobody in the private sector can match it.

Well of course they can't because we are supplementing it with our tax dollars. Not many private-sector capitalist ventures can compete with an entity that doesn't have to show a profit or worry about revenues.

A single toll road vs the millions of miles of roads provided by government, you have a long way to go

Yes, I will encourage government to regulate hospitals....my life depends on it

 

[Boss]

A single toll road vs the millions of miles of roads provided by government, you have a long way to go

M-kay... YOU said:
Are you proposing we sit back and let the free market provide infrastucture? Complete lunacy, you want to pay a toll every half mile?

I replied:
Hmmm.... Has anyone EVER encountered a privately-owned toll road?

Then your quoted response above. Doesn't make sense.

My point was, the government is the only people I know of who collect tolls on roads. I've never encountered a privately-owned toll road and just wondered if anyone had. It sounded like you didn't want the private sector to handle infrastructure because we'd have toll roads every half mile... but private sector capitalists don't build toll roads.

And while we're on this quote... GOVERNMENT doesn't provide ANY goddamn thing. WE provide... in the form of taxes, or in some cases, tolls. Government has no other source of income other than the taxpayers. It doesn't produce anything for profit.