Confused about Jesus, the crucifiction, and hatred of the Jews

[Said1]

I don't think I know the full story on that one. I just know that Ganesha's head got cut off somehow and his parents found it appropriate to replace his human head with an elephant head. thanks mom, you're the best!

Shiva cut it off! Imagine that, beheaded by your own pappy.

 

[no1tovote4]

Didn't man then coming along and decide which writings were actually inspired and which were not instead of leaving everything as it was for people to decide for themselves ?

You are speaking of the Council of Nicea. Most of the decision wasn't on which books, it met mostly to denounce the new heresy which went as follows:

If the Father begat the Son, then there was a beginning in time for the Son. Therefore there was a time when the Son was "not". This caused even more "heresy" such as, "High as he is, the Son must be less than the Father." This started causing a rift in the monotheism of the church, thus Pope Alexander called the Council of Nicea.

Here is a site with a good history on the Council. It is interesting reading to say the least.

http://www.thunderministries.com/history/Nicea.html#Nicea

 

[Allanon68]

Im confused on why people think a book written hundreds of thousands of years ago is stone cold fact. but hey who am I to argue that. Im still waiting for one shred of evidence that there is a god.

 

[dilloduck]

Im confused on why people think a book written hundreds of thousands of years ago is stone cold fact. but hey who am I to argue that. Im still waiting for one shred of evidence that there is a god.

Would it make one bit of difference to you if there was?

 

[no1tovote4]

Im confused on why people think a book written hundreds of thousands of years ago is stone cold fact. but hey who am I to argue that. Im still waiting for one shred of evidence that there is a god.

That's a whole nother thread. Seek it out, it is called "Is God Invisible?". I am sure you can resurrect it from the ashes. First read what was posted previously we don't want to keep repeating the same things.

Oh, and welcome to the board.

 

[Allanon68]

Would it make one bit of difference to you if there was?

Absolutely. Im like a scientist I deal in fact. So yes. It would.

 

[Avatar4321]

Absolutely. Im like a scientist I deal in fact. So yes. It would.

Then why don't you preform an experiment on the word and find out whether there is a God the same way we all have?

 

[Allanon68]

Then why don't you preform an experiment on the word and find out whether there is a God the same way we all have?

You have performed and experiment and found out ? Awesome dude !! What were your controls and your results ?

 

[deaddude]

The problem with this philosophy is that Jesus said that he was the son of God. That being the case, there are only three possibilities.

1. Jesus was a liar. Hard to follow a man who was such a big liar, don't you think?
2. Jesus was a madman. This discredits everything he said, seing as how crazy people aren't exactly credible.
3. Jesus actually was the son of God. This is the only possibility that makes his teachings worthwhile.

You can't take the teachings without the religion. It's incompatible.



The teachings of Jesus are great, but Christianity doesn't exist without the crucifixion and the ressurrection. The main theme of Christianity is that through Jesus, God will forgive our sins if we just ask. Anything at all can be forgiven because the price has been paid. As such, we are told to forgive others, just as God has forgiven us. This is the entire core of Christianity. Christianity without the crucifixion and ressurrection is, well, Judaism.

I would object to the whole hes crazy, so everything he said is crap. Jesus may have been crazy, but many of the things he said would be no less profound if he was, pick up a dictionary, pick twenty words a random, chances are that at least one of those deffinitions was written by an asylum inmate, John Nash is crazy, Howard Hughs was crazy, Einstein was thought to be mentally defficent, each of them also happened to be a genius.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

It is possible to influence a buddhist by discussing Christianity.

The crucifixion is required for man to be saved by Christian beliefs. Yes, there can be Christianity without the crucifixion, but then you would be making Jesus just another phrophet or philosopher or whatever, and then it wouldnt be anything more than just another religion/philosophy. It is your choice to believe that, and call yourself a Christian if you like. If you get another to join you, then you now have two in your church. But if you do believe that, then either your leader is a liar, or, you have to believe that 12 men conspired and lied about it, even to the point of death, which is not possible. It has been shown that human nature is such, that at the threat of death, only so many people can be involved in a plot before one gives in.

You do realize Peter was crucified upside down?

The crucifixion and resurection is what makes Christianity Unique.

Yes, the Romans and Jews are guilty of his death. It is a bitter/sweet situation. We can celebrate that he gave us everlasting life if we choose, but still have sorrow that He had to suffer so.

It was in Gods plan from the beginning, not too hard to figure that when he sent His Son into the world, the world would reject him, even unto death. Its pretty easy to see thats how humans would respond. Without that event being so predictable, I doubt God would have created people.

Jesus did have Thomas feel the wounds in his body did he not? Hence, "doubting Thomas".

Yea, Islam distorted the Bible pretty good, convenient how they claim only "certain" passages were written wrong.

Jesus dieing for our sins is comparable to a father dieing so his son could live. You would be sad for the father, and happy for the child. If the choice was made, say, in a criminal act by someone, then that person is still guilty.

Consider this, a man's son is dieing, He needs blood. He has an incompatable blood type from his dad. No blood is found for the boy. He is doomed. A criminal breaks in and shoots the man, he dies. During an autopsy, its discovered that actually, his blood type is the same as the boys, and it saves the boys life. We have reason to celebrate? We have reason to mourn? We still hold the criminal accountable? Are we angry at the criminal?

I have never understood the hatred for Jews over the crucifixion. I think its just an excuse.

As for finding a religion without supernatural beliefs, thats kinda an oxymoron. The virgin birth, resurection etc, are easy as pie for someone who created the whole universe.

Yea, the stories might be old, that doesnt invalidate them. The "theories" that people come up with, they present them as though they are fact. Odd, that in other areas, if we come up with a possiblity, we cant claim them as fact unless you present some evidence. Please provide some evidence on your theory.

 

[ThomasPaine]

I am not a Bible scholar. The virgin birth is obviously something that was not reported at the time, therefore could have been made up to bolster the religion. Did Jesus ever state directly that his mother was a virgin, or do we get that from other sources? I have heard that he basically ignored her later in life. Jesus stopped talking after he was crucified, so he made no personal claims that he came back to life. That's something that comes only from man. Did he really say he was a god or the literal son of god? "Father" is something a lot of people call their gods. I am not trying to debunk your religion, I'm just saying isn't it possible to look at things from a different perspective? And in a lot of ways wouldn't it be preferable?

Resurrection? Christ never spoke after the crucifiction, ahhhhh, he did, to his disciples, er, ah , Pentacost? Why don't you be quiet about something you have no idea about. Not a Bible Scholar then shut up about Christianity!! Jeeeeeeeez....

 

[Nuc]

Resurrection? Christ never spoke after the crucifiction, ahhhhh, he did, to his disciples, er, ah , Pentacost? Why don't you be quiet about something you have no idea about. Not a Bible Scholar then shut up about Christianity!! Jeeeeeeeez....

If you took your own advice "be quiet about something you have no idea about" your post count would be down to about 4.
:spank3: :clap1:

 

[SpecialEd]

 

[archangel]

I disagree. Much of the philosophy of Jesus is appealing without the resurrection. To me moreso. If Christianity were stripped of the supernatural and focussed on Jesus' philosophy I'd be much more inclined to be interested in it.

and my friend what would Budhism be without the chubby little man statue...maybe ya should ask the Taliban...they did not find it amusing and blew the over-lifesize statues up!

 

[no1tovote4]

and my friend what would Budhism be without the chubby little man statue...maybe ya should ask the Taliban...they did not find it amusing and blew the over-lifesize statues up!

The statues of Buddha have nothing to do with worship, the Buddhist would find a different center for their meditation and life would go on. Those statues simply commemorated that Buddha had passed that way on his journey while teaching the Path to others.

You may also have noticed that those statues were not fat at all, this assumption that all statues of Buddha are fat is simply erroneous. The vast majority of Buddha statues are created to reflect a handsome male figure of the culture in which it is created. Thus those statues reflected male beauty of the area in question, not the fat and sassy buddha you see popularized in the US for people to rub the belly of for "good luck".

 

[Nuc]

and my friend what would Budhism be without the chubby little man statue...maybe ya should ask the Taliban...they did not find it amusing and blew the over-lifesize statues up!

Buddhists do not worship statues. They are just statues. Buddhism doesn't need any visuals.

 

[archangel]

Buddhists do not worship statues. They are just statues. Buddhism doesn't need any visuals.

I just used a little humor to counter your comments on Christianity...ya said in a earlier post that "Jesus said no more after his crucification"...well golly gee neither did Buddah!

 

[Bonnie]

the crucifiction may well be the most important event but it does not diminsh the fact that it was a "crime" committed by the romans without justification

rising from the dead takes the prize for imortant events

Well said Manu, another example would be that Judas gave Christ over to the Romans then hung himself in despair when in fact it was determined ahead of time he would betray Jesus and in fact played a crucial role in fulfilling destiny, so many ask why Judas would be hated or cast to hell. Problem is that Judas despaired by hanging himself thinking Jesus would never have forgiven him, which he would have if Judas had only asked, so it wasn't what Judas did to Jesus, but rather what Judas did to himself. Many that crucified Jesus were just very evil anf took great pleasure in it including the San Hedrin (Jewish elders) who even when the ground shook and the their palace split in half after Christ died refused to admit they did anything wrong or seek redemption, it is they who are forever tormented. There were some Roman soldiers and other who were converted during Christ's crucifixion who were most likely forgiven immediately, one in particular was converted when Christ's side was pierced by the lance and water hit this soldier in the face, another was converted when as he was helping Jesus carry the cross he looked into Christ's eyes.

 

[archangel]

Well said Manu, another example would be that Judas gave Christ over to the Romans then hung himself in despair when in fact it was determined ahead of time he would betray Jesus and in fact played a crucial role in fulfilling destiny, so many ask why Judas would be hated or cast to hell. Problem is that Judas despaired by hanging himself thinking Jesus would never have forgiven him, which he would have if Judas had only asked, so it wasn't what Judas did to Jesus, but rather what Judas did to himself. Many that crucified Jesus were just very evil anf took great pleasure in it including the San Hedrin (Jewish elders) who even when the ground shook and the their palace split in half after Christ died refused to admit they did anything wrong or seek redemption, it is they who are forever tormented. There were some Roman soldiers and other who were converted during Christ's crucifixion who were most likely forgiven immediately, one in particular was converted when Christ's side was pierced by the lance and water hit this soldier in the face, another was converted when as he was helping Jesus carry the cross he looked into Christ's eyes.

However ya forgot to mention that Pontius Pilate gave the Jewish Hiarchy the option to free either Jesus or the criminal..and who did they choose? End of story...politics at the worst! The Roman governor for the most part followed laws of the day...so the Jewish High Priests... exception of one... in Jesus defense... bear the guilt!

 

[Bonnie]

However ya forgot to mention that Pontius Pilate gave the Jewish Hiarchy the option to free either Jesus or the criminal..and who did they choose? End of story...politics at the worst! The Roman governor for the most part followed laws of the day...so the Jewish High Priests... exception of one... in Jesus defense... bear the guilt!

True many of those in the crowd were gullible and jealous of Jesus and that was fed mostly by the Jewish elders. Pontius Pilate's wife did leave him because of that decision as she was converted and warned him to release Jesus. Jesus never blamed Pilate at least not outwardly as he understood that Pilate was beholden to the San Hedren and the people.