Companies do not pay taxes

[Koios]

1. Ours, and the same one used by all modern economies: progressive tax on income

but ours is the most progressive in the world in that we depend on revenue more from the top 1% than any other country. Stealing investment capital from our most productive people obviously harms the economy!

This is like stealing water from the fire department and wondering why they cant put out fires as well.

That's a function of income distribution and not marginal rates. Best you look into it before thinking you know what you're talking about.

 

[akelch]

"NThe Beacon Hill Institute (BHI) is the research arm of the Department of Economics at Suffolk University in Boston. It was founded in 1991 by businessman and Republican politician Ray Shamie. BHI describes itself as being "grounded in the principles of limited government, fiscal responsibility and free markets.ice. You picked a study done by a right wing think tank, founded and supported by conservatives."

"Funding[7]
Castle Rock Foundation (funded by the Coors family)
Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation"
Can not get more conservative than these funders.

Beacon Hill Institute - SourceWatch

If you are an independent thinking person, and you take this link and read about this think tank, you will understand why you would never use it as an independent source. But it is a good source if you would like to make your point.

What is a better tax system? How is our 77,000 page income tax code better? How is the current system more fair?

I am started to think that you believe that "taxes" have little to do with raising revenue for the government while limiting the impact on our economy, while everything to do with social justice. Which is subject-able.

1. Ours, and the same one used by all modern economies: progressive tax on income

2. Irrelevant. How many pages are ideal in describing the beauty of flowers? It's complicated only because the same special interests that are feeding you the rightie pseudo-economic bullshit are at the same time lobbying for all manner of nice additions to the tax code so they can dodge a lot of them.

3. It's fair (if that's what the kids are calling it) because it's the one I mentoned in item one: progressive. Everyone pays the same percentages on the same income. Make more and pay more tax on the higher level of income only and not what you already make, or don't. Your call.

Really?
So a guy that makes billions a year paying 15% on capital gains and no income tax compared to a person making $500k and paying 34% of their income is "fair"?

Ok....

 

[Koios]

What is a better tax system? How is our 77,000 page income tax code better? How is the current system more fair?

I am started to think that you believe that "taxes" have little to do with raising revenue for the government while limiting the impact on our economy, while everything to do with social justice. Which is subject-able.

1. Ours, and the same one used by all modern economies: progressive tax on income

2. Irrelevant. How many pages are ideal in describing the beauty of flowers? It's complicated only because the same special interests that are feeding you the rightie pseudo-economic bullshit are at the same time lobbying for all manner of nice additions to the tax code so they can dodge a lot of them.

3. It's fair (if that's what the kids are calling it) because it's the one I mentoned in item one: progressive. Everyone pays the same percentages on the same income. Make more and pay more tax on the higher level of income only and not what you already make, or don't. Your call.

Really?
So a guy that makes billions a year paying 15% on capital gains and no income tax compared to a person making $500k and paying 34% of their income is "fair"?

Ok....

Yes; fair, essentially, but out of whack, obviously. Again, it applies to all people equally, under law. The problem is only that it treats different classes of income (Labor, Capital) differently, which needs fixing, IMO.

 

[akelch]

1. Ours, and the same one used by all modern economies: progressive tax on income

2. Irrelevant. How many pages are ideal in describing the beauty of flowers? It's complicated only because the same special interests that are feeding you the rightie pseudo-economic bullshit are at the same time lobbying for all manner of nice additions to the tax code so they can dodge a lot of them.

3. It's fair (if that's what the kids are calling it) because it's the one I mentoned in item one: progressive. Everyone pays the same percentages on the same income. Make more and pay more tax on the higher level of income only and not what you already make, or don't. Your call.

Really?
So a guy that makes billions a year paying 15% on capital gains and no income tax compared to a person making $500k and paying 34% of their income is "fair"?

Ok....

Yes; fair, essentially, but out of whack, obviously. Again, it applies to all people equally, under law. The problem is only that it treats different classes of income (Labor, Capital) differently, which needs fixing, IMO.

Wait...you just said that it is because the current tax system was progressive is what makes it fair. Then you said the problem is that it treats different classes of income differently, which needs fixing.
So which is it?

Are you talking about a flat tax?

 

[Koios]

Really?
So a guy that makes billions a year paying 15% on capital gains and no income tax compared to a person making $500k and paying 34% of their income is "fair"?

Ok....

Yes; fair, essentially, but out of whack, obviously. Again, it applies to all people equally, under law. The problem is only that it treats different classes of income (Labor, Capital) differently, which needs fixing, IMO.

Wait...you just said that it is because the current tax system was progressive is what makes it fair. Then you said the problem is that it treats different classes of income differently, which needs fixing.
So which is it?

Are you talking about a flat tax?

No. I am not talking about flat tax. When speaking of current tax code, I assume folks are talking Income tax, and not cigarette taxes, tarriff / duties, etc. etc.

And while there are obvious flaws in many, including brackets and percentages, all are essentially fair (and thus legal) since the income and activity is taxed, and not the individual. So for example, Bill Gates and I have the same code. However, Bill has more Income and other activities, which are taxed, and Bill knew going in that the income and activities were subject to tax. But at any moment, Bill & Melinda could lower their household income to around $35 grand and not pay taxes. Thus, if it's what matters in the minds of some, it's essentailly fair, even is as I believe, grossly flawed.

Hopefully that helps, since I'm all in on it. Not sure what I can add to make it any easier to understand.

 

[akelch]

So you are saying that since it is legal and everyone knows about it then it is fair.
I see nothing fair about government taking my money before I get it. Nor exempting taxes based on what the government believes is good or bad.

Your lack of logic dumbfounds me.

So the only thing that stands in the way of the "Fair Tax" being fair is that it is not a law yet.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Yes; fair, essentially, but out of whack, obviously. Again, it applies to all people equally, under law. The problem is only that it treats different classes of income (Labor, Capital) differently, which needs fixing, IMO.

Wait...you just said that it is because the current tax system was progressive is what makes it fair. Then you said the problem is that it treats different classes of income differently, which needs fixing.
So which is it?

Are you talking about a flat tax?

No. I am not talking about flat tax. When speaking of current tax code, I assume folks are talking Income tax, and not cigarette taxes, tarriff / duties, etc. etc.

And while there are obvious flaws in many, including brackets and percentages, all are essentially fair (and thus legal) since the income and activity is taxed, and not the individual. So for example, Bill Gates and I have the same code. However, Bill has more Income and other activities, which are taxed, and Bill knew going in that the income and activities were subject to tax. But at any moment, Bill & Melinda could lower their household income to around $35 grand and not pay taxes. Thus, if it's what matters in the minds of some, it's essentailly fair, even is as I believe, grossly flawed.

Hopefully that helps, since I'm all in on it. Not sure what I can add to make it any easier to understand.

It won't. The morons on the libertarian right won't be satisfied until the entire law can be written on the back of a napkin.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

1. Ours, and the same one used by all modern economies: progressive tax on income

This is like stealing water from the fire department and wondering why they cant put out fires as well.

That's a function of income distribution and not marginal rates. Best you look into it before thinking you know what you're talking about.

but ours is the most progressive in the world in that we depend on revenue more from the top 1% than any other country. Stealing investment capital from our most productive people obviously harms the economy!

 

[Truthseeker420]

I here a lot of talk about how companies and the rich should pay more in taxes. What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.
The same is true with income taxes. You raise the rich's income tax....they don't take this laying down. They make changes to their companies and portfolio which cost money to the companies thus they make changes to save money or they raise their prices.

So please stop debating about the income tax rates, capital gains tax, and payroll taxes, and start debating on how to get rid of them and put something else in its place that makes sense. Like a consumption tax.

Stepping off soap box......

That's not true they cut taxes on corporations and the prices have went up and their profits went up. Prices are set by supply and demand not tax code.

How do put a consumption tax on police and fire? Do the cops ask for you credit card number before they will look or stop a robbery? Oil companies owe us a big consumption tax for the Iraq War.

 

[Koios]

This is like stealing water from the fire department and wondering why they cant put out fires as well.

That's a function of income distribution and not marginal rates. Best you look into it before thinking you know what you're talking about.

but ours is the most progressive in the world in that we depend on revenue more from the top 1% than any other country. Stealing investment capital from our most productive people obviously harms the economy!

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

However, for the last 1/3 century, the reduction in progressive rates has created a more dual society, in which income is trending to highest-bracket earners in near historic degrees. So the bulk of the tax burden accruing to them is a function of them making most of the money, with less taxable income being distributed to the middle class.

Raise rates on the middle class, and the dynamic will not change. The top 10% simply have too much of the income, now.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

of course , if true the super idiot liberal would present evidence

"But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden."


News To Obama: The OECD Says the United States Has the Most Progressive Tax System | Tax Foundation

 

[Koios]

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

of course , if true the super idiot liberal would present evidence

"But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden."


News To Obama: The OECD Says the United States Has the Most Progressive Tax System | Tax Foundation

Wake the **** up you stupid ******* ****. What are our rates and brackets compared to other countries???

I've already acknowledged that the bulk of taxes are paid by our upper classes -- SINCE THEY MAKE THE BULK OF THE ******* INCOME.

Even you oughta be able to comprehend that. Oh wait. A ******* carrot salad is more intuitived than you.

Scratch the above. I'm sure you're right. Now put on your headgear and go build a snowman or something.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

of course , if true the super idiot liberal would present evidence

"But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden."


News To Obama: The OECD Says the United States Has the Most Progressive Tax System | Tax Foundation

Wake the **** up you stupid ******* ****. What are our rates and brackets compared to other countries???

I've already acknowledged that the bulk of taxes are paid by our upper classes -- SINCE THEY MAKE THE BULK OF THE ******* INCOME.

Even you oughta be able to comprehend that. Oh wait. A ******* carrot salad is more intuitived than you.

Scratch the above. I'm sure you're right. Now put on your headgear and go build a snowman or something.

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

do you now admit to being wrong for the 100th time in a row?? Are you going for a liberal record????? Does it occur to yet that you've been brainwashed very skillfully?

 

[akelch]

of course , if true the super idiot liberal would present evidence

"But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden."


News To Obama: The OECD Says the United States Has the Most Progressive Tax System | Tax Foundation

Wake the **** up you stupid ******* ****. What are our rates and brackets compared to other countries???

I've already acknowledged that the bulk of taxes are paid by our upper classes -- SINCE THEY MAKE THE BULK OF THE ******* INCOME.

Even you oughta be able to comprehend that. Oh wait. A ******* carrot salad is more intuitived than you.

Scratch the above. I'm sure you're right. Now put on your headgear and go build a snowman or something.

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

do you now admit to being wrong for the 100th time in a row?? Are you going for a liberal record????? Does it occur to yet that you've been brainwashed very skillfully?

I am beginning to understand that, to some, taxes have nothing to do with revenue for the government and everything to do with social justice...sad.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Wake the **** up you stupid ******* ****. What are our rates and brackets compared to other countries???

I've already acknowledged that the bulk of taxes are paid by our upper classes -- SINCE THEY MAKE THE BULK OF THE ******* INCOME.

Even you oughta be able to comprehend that. Oh wait. A ******* carrot salad is more intuitived than you.

Scratch the above. I'm sure you're right. Now put on your headgear and go build a snowman or something.

Try to stay with me, Ed. Our policy (rates and brackets) are not the most progressive, by any means.

do you now admit to being wrong for the 100th time in a row?? Are you going for a liberal record????? Does it occur to yet that you've been brainwashed very skillfully?

I am beginning to understand that, to some, taxes have nothing to do with revenue for the government and everything to do with social justice...sad.

yes exactly, for example libs support the highest corporate taxes in the world even when they drive companies, jobs, money, and tax revenue offshore. Its about liberal Marxists punishing business, not about jobs or tax revenue or helping the economy. Its a sickness.

 

[akelch]

Sad....

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Sad....

yes domesticially they want to tax away capital gains when capital was the very thing that started Apple Amazon Google HP and Intel. Its liberal insanity that as you say is about social justice not about helping the economy or getting people back to work!

 

[Rshermr]

But that can not be helped. You are stupid. What do you want him to do about that??

 

[Rshermr]

So you are saying that since it is legal and everyone knows about it then it is fair.
I see nothing fair about government taking my money before I get it. Nor exempting taxes based on what the government believes is good or bad.

Your lack of logic dumbfounds me.

So the only thing that stands in the way of the "Fair Tax" being fair is that it is not a law yet.

But that can not be helped. You are stupid. What do you want him to do about that??

 

[Rshermr]

Sad....

Yes. You really, really are.