College Should Be Free! (For Americans)

[Lewdog]

I actually don't think the GI Bill works the same way it used to.

Regardless,the military is a great place to learn a career, our nephew goes into the USAF in August and they have his entire training and education already planned for him.

Military Tuition Assistance | Military.com

Military life isn't for everyone, and just because someone can't adjust to the regimented lifestyle doesn't mean that they should have to pay for a higher education while others don't. If you look at the map of the countries who outperform the United States in Education performance, most... *drum roll* have free higher education, including, (nasty word coming so cover your children's ears) those that are considered socialist countries.

Except it's not free, nothing is ever free

Yes, it does end up being free because it is basically a cycle. Sure YOU might be the successfully hard working taxpayer NOW, but when some of your tax dollars goes into providing a free college education for someone else, then they become a successful hard working tax payer... and I think you get the gist of where I am going with this. But who ends up being the winner? We ALL do because in the end more jobs come to the United States because we have a better educated workforce to provide employees for companies. More companies, more jobs, more money flowing into the tax coffers. You see how this works?

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

 

[Lewdog]

So simple to understand...

Do any of thise taxpayers make things or provide services that people buy? Well first of all, place tarifs on imported goods so they couldn't be sold for a cheaper price than what they would be if they were made in America. Then take taxpayer money and give everybody a check for 10,000 dollars. That would do to our economy what pouring gasoline onto a fire does for the fire. Tell me the taxpayers wouldn't end up benifiting.

Look, I'm for free education, but how come every time I debunk something you say you don't respond to it and instead use a red herring?

Are you talking to me? If so, what did I say that you debunked. And what is this "red herring" you speak of.

I listed ways people already can get free college education, like the nurses you mentioned, and I also listed free colleges.

A Red Herring is when you make a point, and then someone invalidates your point, and instead of refuting their statements, you lead the conversation off on an unrelated tangent.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Regardless,the military is a great place to learn a career, our nephew goes into the USAF in August and they have his entire training and education already planned for him.

Military Tuition Assistance | Military.com

Military life isn't for everyone, and just because someone can't adjust to the regimented lifestyle doesn't mean that they should have to pay for a higher education while others don't. If you look at the map of the countries who outperform the United States in Education performance, most... *drum roll* have free higher education, including, (nasty word coming so cover your children's ears) those that are considered socialist countries.

Except it's not free, nothing is ever free

Yes, it does end up being free because it is basically a cycle. Sure YOU might be the successfully hard working taxpayer NOW, but when some of your tax dollars goes into providing a free college education for someone else, then they become a successful hard working tax payer... and I think you get the gist of where I am going with this. But who ends up being the winner? We ALL do because in the end more jobs come to the United States because we have a better educated workforce to provide employees for companies. More companies, more jobs, more money flowing into the tax coffers. You see how this works?

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

 

[krypto]

When you give something away you negate all its value.

Making college "free" for everyone would result in just another 4 years of high school and the people attending would not be any better educated

When you live in a world where there is a need for educated professionals, you would find it hard to negate their value. Also, I would agree that a highschool education is just about pointless. But the very purpose of a college or university is to give people a higher level of education. As long as you can maintain an acceptable academic level, you WILL learn.

 

[krypto]

It's sad when someone takes a serious topic like this and becomes a troll with it. If you are going to argue for free college education, at least bring good arguments to the table.

Again, are you talking to me? If so, what is it that you think I said that isn't serious?

 

[Lewdog]

Military life isn't for everyone, and just because someone can't adjust to the regimented lifestyle doesn't mean that they should have to pay for a higher education while others don't. If you look at the map of the countries who outperform the United States in Education performance, most... *drum roll* have free higher education, including, (nasty word coming so cover your children's ears) those that are considered socialist countries.

Except it's not free, nothing is ever free

Yes, it does end up being free because it is basically a cycle. Sure YOU might be the successfully hard working taxpayer NOW, but when some of your tax dollars goes into providing a free college education for someone else, then they become a successful hard working tax payer... and I think you get the gist of where I am going with this. But who ends up being the winner? We ALL do because in the end more jobs come to the United States because we have a better educated workforce to provide employees for companies. More companies, more jobs, more money flowing into the tax coffers. You see how this works?

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Except it's not free, nothing is ever free

Yes, it does end up being free because it is basically a cycle. Sure YOU might be the successfully hard working taxpayer NOW, but when some of your tax dollars goes into providing a free college education for someone else, then they become a successful hard working tax payer... and I think you get the gist of where I am going with this. But who ends up being the winner? We ALL do because in the end more jobs come to the United States because we have a better educated workforce to provide employees for companies. More companies, more jobs, more money flowing into the tax coffers. You see how this works?

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

If everyone gets free degrees they will be a dime a dozen

 

[Lewdog]

It's sad when someone takes a serious topic like this and becomes a troll with it. If you are going to argue for free college education, at least bring good arguments to the table.

Again, are you talking to me? If so, what is it that you think I said that isn't serious?

Giving everybody a check for $10,000? For example. If you are going to bring anything to the table in this debate, you need to point out literacy numbers, or world rankings in education. For example, did you know that North Korea is one crappy country, but they have nearly a 100% adult literacy rate?

North Korea Adult Literacy Rate (Yearly, NSA, Percent of People Aged 15+)

 

[Lewdog]

Yes, it does end up being free because it is basically a cycle. Sure YOU might be the successfully hard working taxpayer NOW, but when some of your tax dollars goes into providing a free college education for someone else, then they become a successful hard working tax payer... and I think you get the gist of where I am going with this. But who ends up being the winner? We ALL do because in the end more jobs come to the United States because we have a better educated workforce to provide employees for companies. More companies, more jobs, more money flowing into the tax coffers. You see how this works?

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

If everyone gets free degrees they will be a dime a dozen

No, because there will be more advanced jobs with higher wages. Companies will WANT to move their operations to the united States.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I see how you think it will work but I doubt it would work. You take care of you and your children's education needs and we will do the same, I have no desire to fund you and yours...or anyone else

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

If everyone gets free degrees they will be a dime a dozen

No, because there will be more advanced jobs with higher wages. Companies will WANT to move their operations to the united States.

Companies will go where they can pay less in wages,benefits, less regulation, better tax shelters, less in healthcare costs, where they don't have to deal with unions, etc

 

[BuckToothMoron]

There are other countrues where college is free. France for one. I suppose they think that having highly educated people is good for their society in general. I might have even stayed in school if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of my ever being able to afford college.

First, don't call it free. Nothing about it is free, the professors get paid, the books cost money, the dorm has to be built with materials and labor that have a cost. Be honest and say you want someone else to pay for it.

Secondly, people like you who don't have a true desire to learn are the last people we should be paying for to go thru college. There are numerous ways to extend your education with little cost from community college to online classes, get a library card and check out some books, assuming that is what you really want.

You said you might have stayed in school if you thought you could afford college. Did you drop out of high school? If so, is your attitude if I can't go to a 4 year university there is no point in having a high school degree? That is beyond sad!

 

[Unkotare]

When you give something away you negate all its value.

Making college "free" for everyone would result in just another 4 years of high school and the people attending would not be any better educated

No, just no. It would help the United States to catch up with the education of the rest of the world. Here are the current standings for the United States as far as education is concerned.

From this article in 2015, the United States ranked 29th out of 76 countries. If education stays like that, we are going to become a shit hole as the rest of the world grows around us.

Interactive map ranks school standards around the world

American universities are by far the best in the world. Guess why?

 

[krypto]

No. The government just should pick up the tab. Just as it does with police or the military.

No. The government just should pick up the tab.

Why should the government pay for stuff that's free?

The government doesn't have to pay for it, that's why you tax the ones that hide their money off shore or the ones on Wall Street who make millions of dollars betting on companies to fail.

that's why you tax the ones that hide their money off shore

How do you tax hidden money?

or the ones on Wall Street who make millions of dollars betting on companies to fail.

That sounds terrible. Could you explain how you make a bet like that?

I'll take this one. How do you tax money that's hidden? It isn't easy. But it can be done. But there's a simpler solution. Don't let the wealthy get enough money in the first place that they can hide. Also, I was watching a program about the great depression once. There was a super rich guy who had a wife at home that heard about the banking collapse. When her husband got home, she asked him in a worried manner of course about it. He said that he made more money than he ever had before.

Also, there are other financial ways of protecting yourself against some failure other than buying insurance. No doubt in the financial arena, they are basically able to do things that are akin to staking out a life insurance policy on somebody and then having them bumped off.

Don't let the wealthy get enough money in the first place that they can hide.

Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?

Do you know what the wealth limit is for those who want to be wealthy? I hope not. Because there isn't one. If allowed to, most wealthy people would try to become gods and own slaves. Also, Bill Gates makes about 416,976 dollars per hour. Nobody is worth that kind of money. Also, I heard of some companies limiting the wages of their top executives to just 15 times what an average worker makes. That doesn't exactly put them in the poor house. "Comrade."

 

[Unkotare]

There are other countrues [sic] where college is free. .....

No, there are not.

According to the documentary "Sicko," college is free in France. Just as health care is.

Wrong

Wrong about college or health care.

Both

 

[SAYIT]

Years ago, and maybe still, they had this thing called a PELL grant. Where if you wre poor, they would pay for your books and things. But it wouldn't have done me any good. Because for one thing, I had to put survival first. You know. Things like eating and paying rent. Also, the only way I could have gotten to the college is to hitchhike. And I wouldn't have cared to do that.

In other words, you were unwilling to do what was necessary to advance your level of education. That is, in part, what higher ed is ... a test of your willingness to sacrifice your present for a brighter future.

BTW, Pell Grants are alive and well and still available only to the financially needy.

 

[Lewdog]

But you forget that the economic system we live in is symbiotic. Your kid's degrees won't be any good if there are no jobs for them to use them with. Otherwise you are proud of a couple of kids that have engineering degrees and manage at MacDonald's. As a nation we need to have a larger, more educated talent pool to offer companies that otherwise are building their businesses in Asian countries where they have a smarter workforce.

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

If everyone gets free degrees they will be a dime a dozen

No, because there will be more advanced jobs with higher wages. Companies will WANT to move their operations to the united States.

Companies will go where they can pay less in wages,benefits, less regulation, better tax shelters, less in healthcare costs, where they don't have to deal with unions, etc

Not the companies who deal in advanced technologies, which is the wave of the future.

 

[Unkotare]

There are other countrues where college is free. France for one. I suppose they think that having highly educated people is good for their society in general. I might have even stayed in school if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of my ever being able to afford college.

I agree, colleges should stop collecting tuition.

No. The government just should pick up the tab. Just as it does with police or the military.

You had better be kidding.

I'm not.

Then you are tragically ignorant.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Our children will be in demand due to their degrees, ones that don't apply themselves, take risks and go get that degree will be the ones at McDonalds....of course they will also be whining for $15 an hour they don't deserve because that Mickey D job isn't and shouldn't be a career goal

No, because your kid's degrees will be a dime a dozen compared to the number of jobs out there that actually pay the ratio of value to earnings. If you think otherwise, you are simply chasing the dragon.

If everyone gets free degrees they will be a dime a dozen

No, because there will be more advanced jobs with higher wages. Companies will WANT to move their operations to the united States.

Companies will go where they can pay less in wages,benefits, less regulation, better tax shelters, less in healthcare costs, where they don't have to deal with unions, etc

Not the companies who deal in advanced technologies, which is the wave of the future.

Like I said, you take care of yours and we'll take care of ours. I've no desire to fund anyone, that sham Obamacare is enough and should give you some idea how "free" college would turn out

 

[Lewdog]

Years ago, and maybe still, they had this thing called a PELL grant. Where if you wre poor, they would pay for your books and things. But it wouldn't have done me any good. Because for one thing, I had to put survival first. You know. Things like eating and paying rent. Also, the only way I could have gotten to the college is to hitchhike. And I wouldn't have cared to do that.

In other words, you were unwilling to do what was necessary to advance your level of education. That is, in part, what higher ed is ... a test of your willingness to sacrifice your present for a brighter future.

BTW, Pell Grants are alive and well and still available only to the financially needy.

Pell grants most of the time will not cover very much of a person's education. If I remember correctly, I think out of the $20K I spent around $5,800 was a Pell Grant.

 

[MaryL]

There are other countrues where college is free. France for one. I suppose they think that having highly educated people is good for their society in general. I might have even stayed in school if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of my ever being able to afford college.

I will say the same thing about health care as higher education. Change the system so they are really truly affordable, don't play shell games. Look into why colleges or health care providers charge so much and trim the phony baloney charges and the fat, make them both TRULY affordable.