Clinton: Embracing Our Common Humanity

[insein]

Truman = fire bombings of Tokyo, Dresden.

Nixon = agent orange carpet bombings, ignoring the coming genocide of the Khmer Rouge

GWB = acknowledging but doing nothing about the Darfur genocide

Wasnt Nixon the one that ended the Vietnam conflict after years of failure by LBJ and Kennedy? I would hardly say the blame lies solely on 1 man for that debacle.

With Darfur, GWB has 3.5 more years. Hopefully something will get done. Our resources are limited right now though and matters of NATIONAL security take precedence.

 

[OCA]

Or conventional bombs. The allies used incendiary bombs literally meant to raze the [entire] city to the ground.

And the problem is?

 

[sagegirl]

Unfortunately, it is easier to talk the talk, than walk the walk. We reserve our right to be as disingenuous as anybody else.....We could all use to flip that around and act in a manner that doesnt contradict our stated goals. How nice it would be to actually participate in processes that were so obviously beneficial that they would need no explanation.

 

[nakedemperor]

With Darfur, GWB has 3.5 more years. Hopefully something will get done.

What? 3.5 years to go back in time and halt the genocide that claimed hundreds of thousands? 3.5 more years with what? He'll do something...eventually? Ha. He's not better than Clinton.

 

[nakedemperor]

Oh, so in your warped world it is acceptable to blow people into shredded barbeque chunks, but you can't roast them. How stupid is that?

I was pointing out that the incendiary devices initiated hundreds of thousands of lives worth of 'splash damage'. Conventional bombs would not have begun the fire that raged, and became the primary cause of the high death tolls. Conventional bombs would have destroyed less periferal infrastructure while taking out military, communications, and logistical targets.

And how many more of our people would you kill in order to win a war in a manner acceptable to your delicate sensibilities? You really are thoroughly disgusting.

The implication that very many of "our" people were saved by ~300,000 civilian deaths is an inane sentiment. Are 300,000 civilian deaths worth saving 1 american G.I.? 10? 100? 300,000? The distinction is not clear.

Here's something you and your aging hippie professors are obviously overlooking. When you're fighting a war where the survival of the nation is at stake (as was the case is WWII), then the civilian populace of the enemy nation becomes a legitimate target.

Disagree. Completely. And I find this a disgusting POV. Never ever EVER is a civilian non-combatant a "legitimate target".

The civilian populace of the enemy nation manufactures and otherwise supports the war machine. As such, they are just as much of a legitimate target as the ball bearing plant or the refinery in which they work.

If you destroy the factories the "willing" civilians cannot significantly aidthe war machines. Dresden was a cultural and social gem in the German landscape. And in a flash it was erased, along with the ~50,000 "legitimate target" children under the age of 18.

I know that's a hard pill for you leftist idealogues to swallow, but it's the plain, unvarnished and undeniable truth. Deal with it.

I'm not an idealogue, nor are my professors hippies, but making sweeping assumptions is what you're best at, so I'll let it slide.

 

[Merlin1047]

Are 300,000 civilian deaths worth saving 1 american G.I.? 10? 100? 300,000?

Yes. And if you stop sucking on pablum long enough, you might come to realize that the object in a war is to kill as many of THEM for as few of US as possible. And the side benefit is that it gives self-righteous asses like you something to feel morally superior about afterward, despite the fact that you're too much of a limp wrist to ever actually consider stepping out of your cushy life to serve your country.

Disagree. Completely. And I find this a disgusting POV. Never ever EVER is a civilian non-combatant a "legitimate target".

Well then you're an idiot to boot. You've been watching too many surgical bomb strikes on TV and you think that and reading a few history books gives you the right to second guess those who had to make a decision about winning a world war. Perhaps that gives you some stature in your pathetic little coffe-house world where talk is confused for actually doing something.

If you destroy the factories the "willing" civilians cannot significantly aidthe war machines. Dresden was a cultural and social gem in the German landscape. And in a flash it was erased, along with the ~50,000 "legitimate target" children under the age of 18.

I don't give a rat's ass if Dresden was the crown jewel of the world. It was an enemy asset which needed to be destroyed in order to minimize our casualties in the subsequent invasion of Germany. In the same manner as the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought the Japanese to surrender and thereby saved possibly hundreds of thousands of American lives. But you don't really care about that, do you? You get your cookies by pointing your finger at those who actually had to do the decision making and the fighting and 60 years later you condemn them as crimes against humanity. Pathetic.

I'm not an idealogue, nor are my professors hippies, but making sweeping assumptions is what you're best at, so I'll let it slide.

Deny it all you want. Not only are you an idealogue, you are a disgusting, petty little diletante as well. If a call to arms ever went out, you and the leftist asses you call professors would scatter like cockroaches when the light comes on. And I made no sweeping assumption about you, Skippy. I've pretty much got you nailed dead to rights. So slide all you want. That is, after all, about the only thing you're really good at.

 

[nakedemperor]

Deny it all you want. Not only are you an idealogue, you are a disgusting, petty little diletante as well. If a call to arms ever went out, you and the leftist asses you call professors would scatter like cockroaches when the light comes on. And I made no sweeping assumption about you, Skippy. I've pretty much got you nailed dead to rights. So slide all you want. That is, after all, about the only thing you're really good at.

It simply boils down to you believing that 300,000 innocent civilian deaths is worth saving 1 American G.I. I disagree, so that will be that.

Second of all, if my country needed me to pick up a rifle to defend its soil, you're damn right I'd do so, proudly and promptly. Get off your high horse. You called my professors hippes, of which NONE of them are-- two of them are purple hearting bearing vets,so yes, you were generalizing. I am *not* an idealogue; just because someone takes a liberal position onsomething doesnt make them draft-dodgers. You're a lousy board member because of your inability to differentiate between your presumptions and prejudices and what people actually believe. Your conception of my willingness to fight a war is divorced fromreality. Now what are you going to do, recommend to ban me? Your second favorite tactic when you let your temper get the better of you serves you well- if you dont want to hear another POV, silence it. God I hope your kids survive you.

 

[insein]

What? 3.5 years to go back in time and halt the genocide that claimed hundreds of thousands? 3.5 more years with what? He'll do something...eventually? Ha. He's not better than Clinton.

I find it ironic that your blaming this on GWB when the UN has failed to even label this an atrocity through their useless Human rights committee. The US seems to have been the ONLY ones doing something. Even if it isnt our full effort we're at least acknowledging the problem and are looking for a course of action to take.

Where the hell is anyone else on this since they are so convinced that the US isnt a world power and they are?

 

[Merlin1047]

It simply boils down to you believing that 300,000 innocent civilian deaths is worth saving 1 American G.I. I disagree, so that will be that.

Thanks. You made my case. Scum like you are the antithesis of everything this country stands for. You sit back in judgement on the people who held the fate of the nation in their hands and cluck your tongues over the actions they felt were appropriate and necessary to assure our survival. In the process, you set yourself up as the standard bearer for how war should be fought when in fact you have no earthly idea what the hell you're talking about.

Here's the bottom line Skippy - you're so damned pathetic that you wouldn't make a pimple on a true American's ass. You're a waste of my air, a disgrace to your country and a total loser with nothing to contribute.

Second of all, if my country needed me to pick up a rifle to defend its soil, you're damn right I'd do so, proudly and promptly.

You're a damn liar. If what you say is true, you've had ample opportunity to enlist. But you're too busy conducting an analysis of the decisions made by people far better than punks like you.

Get off your high horse. You called my professors hippes, of which NONE of them are-- two of them are purple hearting bearing vets,so yes, you were generalizing.

Ah, there's your favorite phrase again. You're into that horsey thing, aren't you? And as far as your prof's go - kerry had three Purple Hearts. Sorry, don't try to impress me with that. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. What about you, sweetie? What have you done for your country besides whine about it?

I am *not* an idealogue; just because someone takes a liberal position onsomething doesnt make them draft-dodgers.

Blah, blah blah, blah. If you're not an idealogue, then maybe it's just stupidity or laziness that causes you to sound like an idealogue. Whatever, the end result is the same.

You're a lousy board member because of your inability to differentiate between your presumptions and prejudices and what people actually believe.

LOL - coming from a limp wristed parasite like you, I consider that remark a compliment. If I am in fact unable to differentiate as you claim, it's because you have given me no basis for doing so. Every post you vomit onto this board is pretty much the same mindless leftist drivel which has characterized your outlook from the very beginning. So perhaps you need to look a little closer to home for the reason for my "presumptions and prejudices".

Your conception of my willingness to fight a war is divorced fromreality.

Really? Then why aren't you out there fighting - last I looked, the armed services were still accepting applicants. So save your breath on this one. And if you ever do get up the guts to do something besides spout crap in a coffee house, perhaps you can apply your genteel warfighting theories while you're looking down the business end of the weapons manned by the opposition. Wonder if you'll simply faint or shit in your pants.

Now what are you going to do, recommend to ban me?

First, I don't have to "recommend" to ban you, I could do that on my own. The last time I banned your stupid ass was because you flamed in response to a post which did not merit any such conduct. This time however, flame away. I wouldn't ban you, Skippy. First, I would never ban anyone for responding in kind and since I decided to indulge myself, I can't ***** if I get what I dish out. But even more important, it's too much fun to draw you out and let everyone see you for the pathethic parasitic leech you are on our society. So don't flatter yourself Dorothy, banning you never even crossed my mind. I'd rather keep you around and kick your sorry ass into a mass of bruises.

Your second favorite tactic when you let your temper get the better of you serves you well- if you dont want to hear another POV, silence it.

Again, you flatter yourself enormously. You don't make me angry. You disgust me. I view you rather like the proverbial turd in the punch bowl. You are a worthless, pathetic sniveler who seeks self-aggrandizement at the expense of your betters. Nope, I'm not angry at all, I'm simply taking a little time to make sure that you understand what I think of your opinions and of you personally. I don't want to silence you. But why is it that you feel free to trot out your stupid and outrageous opinions, but then you get your little feelings in an uproar when someone tells you what he thinks of you? Better develop some callouses sonny or stay the hell at home with mommy.

God I hope your kids survive you.

Pathetic cretin. What the hell was that? Is this tied to some point of your argument? I hope our nation can survive having millstones like you tied around our national neck. But since you raised the point, I'll opine that frankly I think it's a damn shame your daddy didn't pull out before they had the chance to conceive you.

 

[nakedemperor]

We're both getting our feathers ruffled, this discussion is becoming too venomous on both our parts, I think. I suggest we lay it to rest.

 

[musicman]

I don't know about ruffled feathers, but I definitely spy a well-chewed ass!

 

[nakedemperor]

I don't know about ruffled feathers, but I definitely spy a well-chewed ass!

What's a well-chewed ass?

 

[NATO AIR]

Some thoughts....

The Bush administration is becoming "Clintonian" in its handling of the Darfur genocide.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20402

Again though, this is all Clinton's fault.

His mishandling of Somalia issued a blank check to all dictators, militias and idealogues to do their worst to their defenseless populations and enemies without worrying about America or anyone else stopping them.

You can see the results in Rwanda, the Congo, Liberia, Sierra Leone and now Darfur.

Stand by for Nigeria, which will top them all.

I don't blame Bush for being handcuffed to an "engagement" policy by Clinton's disasters. The American people see Africa through the prism of Somalia.

I do blame Bush for talking a big game and not following through, and I most certainly blame Tony Blair even more. He HAS intervened in Africa before, with successful results (Sierra Leone).

Now he claims he's done his best for Darfur, which is bull.

 

[musicman]

What's a well-chewed ass?

Twenty-five, just like downtown.

 

[Said1]

Twenty-five, just like downtown.

Love the one you're with honey, love the one you're with! :halo:

 

[musicman]

Love the one you're with honey, love the one you're with! :halo:

Don't be angry - don't be sad

Don't sit cryin' over good times ya' had...

Great tune! If you ever see Stephen Stills, tell him he still owes me money - LOL!

Notice how I figure that since both you and he are from Canada, you must run into each other all the time.

 

[Said1]

Don't be angry - don't be sad

Don't sit cryin' over good times ya' had...

Great tune! If you ever see Stephen Stills, tell him he still owes me money - LOL!

Notice how I figure that since both you and he are from Canada, you must run into each other all the time.

Great it is!

And no, sadly I don't know Stephen Stills, does he say everything backwards like most Canadians? Teehee. :tng:

 

[musicman]

Great it is!

And no, sadly I don't know Stephen Stills, does he say everything backwards like most Canadians? Teehee. :tng:

Guess someone else was in charge of the Deja Vu sessions; otherwise we'd all be singing:

Well - teach your children

Parents' their hell

Slowly go by will...

 

[Said1]

Guess someone else was in charge of the Deja Vu sessions; otherwise we'd all be singing:

Well - teach your children

Parents' their hell

Slowly go by will...

LOL! Something like that. "The Marrakesh express they're taking me!"

That sounds much better.

 

[musicman]

LOL! Something like that. "The Marrakesh express they're taking me!"

That sounds much better.

Ha, ha - by that yardstick, I guess Stephen actually got top billing in CSN&Y!