Class War Illustrated

[LordBrownTrout]

If the American government is a NANNY state she sucks at nanny-hood for most of her children because she sure in hell is showing favoritism for the wealthy at the expense of her working class wards

I'll throw in corporate welfare in their too. I'm against that also.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Tax cuts don't cost the taxpayer anything so the whole comparison is BULLSHIT.

 

[midcan5]

"Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally. ¶ Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came." Thomas Paine

I was going to write what Paine said above, but when I searched a database I thought what the heck, he already said it long ago. The only reason the wealthy possess property is because they live in a nation that creates the possibility to possess property. But there is another issue in this debate and it is the moral one. Americans have lost their moral compass since the eighties in a fit of narcissistic greed, and the corporate propaganda, supported by wealth makes their immorality and injustice the opposite of what it is and what it does.


"... legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property... Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right." Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to James Madison 1785


"One percent of the nation owns a third of the wealth. The rest of the wealth is distributed in such a way as to turn those in the 99 percent against one another: small property owners against the propertyless, black against white, native- born against foreign-born, intellectuals and professionals against the uneducated and unskilled. These groups have resented one another and warred against one another with such vehemence and violence as to obscure their common position as sharers of leftovers in a very wealthy country." Howard Zinn 'APHOTUS'

 

[Oddball]

Thanks! The e of the conversation could be class warfare but the title includes figures that have not and won't be discussed. Everyone would rather summarize each others thoughts into strawman arguments like "dems want all your money". The chart doesn't Redernce political ideologies just what costs and what is proposing to be cut.

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

 

[Mini 14]

OK, then.....I guess I'm out.

Any discussion of economics which doesn't consult Marx is sort of like discussing personal computing and ignoring Bill Gates.

You girls enjoy yourselves!

Go ahead and solve world hunger while you're at it, ok?

 

[cutter]

Why do people that talk about the wealth of this nation feel the wealth belongs to the nation and is to be distributed by the nation? The wealth in this nation belongs to those that earn it and the nation has no right to distribute in any way.The wealth of this nation is in the hands of it's citizens and the government has a right to take ONLY what the Constitution allows. Not redistribute in a way they see fit.

 

[code1211]

The tax income that the government could gain without raising taxes and just closing loopholes is amazing. Thats what we need to do, close loopholes.

Every credit and deduction is form of social engineering. Taxes are needed if abusive feature of any society.

Every time the governemt taxes anything, it proclaims its oppostion to it. Every time the government subsidizes anything, it proclaims its support of it.

The web of incentives, credits, deductions and graduated tax liability is the government trying to engineer a society and do so with threats and rewards. The whole mess is short handed into the word loopholes.

A flat rate of tax or a flat tax would solve all of that and we'd be free of the IRS. The whole department could be replaced by one clerk with a Super Computer.

 

[Cuyo]

OK, then.....I guess I'm out.

Any discussion of economics which doesn't consult Marx is sort of like discussing personal computing and ignoring Bill Gates.

You girls enjoy yourselves!

Go ahead and solve world hunger while you're at it, ok?

If we did, I'm sure you'd criticize us for overpopulation.

 

[Cuyo]

Tax cuts don't cost the taxpayer anything so the whole comparison is BULLSHIT.

That's an (odd) opinion... And we're not talking about the budget.

If we were talking about the budget, I'd point out that whether you call it a 'Cost' or not is utterly irrelevant to the fiscal impact. More semantics from the RW echo chamber.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Thanks! The e of the conversation could be class warfare but the title includes figures that have not and won't be discussed. Everyone would rather summarize each others thoughts into strawman arguments like "dems want all your money". The chart doesn't Redernce political ideologies just what costs and what is proposing to be cut.

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

Well if a topic that includes figures needs to be talked abou without using the figures what are we talking about? Oh yeah, what you think the numbers mean. Hey if the figures show that the rich is raping the 99% then ignore the figures that is the definition of willful ignorance. Have fun with that

 

[cutter]

Thanks! The e of the conversation could be class warfare but the title includes figures that have not and won't be discussed. Everyone would rather summarize each others thoughts into strawman arguments like "dems want all your money". The chart doesn't Redernce political ideologies just what costs and what is proposing to be cut.

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

Well if a topic that includes figures needs to be talked abou without using the figures what are we talking about? Oh yeah, what you think the numbers mean. Hey if the figures show that the rich is raping the 99% then ignore the figures that is the definition of willful ignorance. Have fun with that

If the poor willingly spend their money on that which make the rich richer, It Ain't Rape!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Thanks! The e of the conversation could be class warfare but the title includes figures that have not and won't be discussed. Everyone would rather summarize each others thoughts into strawman arguments like "dems want all your money". The chart doesn't Redernce political ideologies just what costs and what is proposing to be cut.

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

I'm still waiting on these "kleptocrats" to explain where thee money's gonna come from once they've looted all the producers... I never get an answer to that question.

 

[chikenwing]

We have been teaching a moocher class of people, how to sponge for decades,and we wonder why the income gap is widening???!!!!

There is no big right wing,big corp,scam to steel all the money from the poor,we drastically stopped teaching people how to succeed,the ones that figured it out themselves are doing well,the where's my check crowd will never.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

Well if a topic that includes figures needs to be talked abou without using the figures what are we talking about? Oh yeah, what you think the numbers mean. Hey if the figures show that the rich is raping the 99% then ignore the figures that is the definition of willful ignorance. Have fun with that

If the poor willingly spend their money on that which make the rich richer, It Ain't Rape!

and if your if's were a fifth we'd all be drunk. The chart shows that the rich are getting richer from tax cuts and loop holes that come back to bite us when the 99% of us have to cut programs so that they dont have to sacrifice at all.

How about we cut spending and raise taxes 2% on the top 1%? Wouldnt that work to get us out the hole even faster?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Thanks! The e of the conversation could be class warfare but the title includes figures that have not and won't be discussed. Everyone would rather summarize each others thoughts into strawman arguments like "dems want all your money". The chart doesn't Redernce political ideologies just what costs and what is proposing to be cut.

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

I'm still waiting on these "kleptocrats" to explain where thee money's gonna come from once they've looted all the producers... I never get an answer to that question.

That's because its a dumb question. No one wants all their money. Here's an example:

100 people order a 100 slice pizza, when the pizza comes one guy takes 80 slices. All I'm saying (misrepresent it if you must) is maybe that guy can take 75 slices instead of 80. 79 instead of 80. 79.5 slices instead of 80. If the deficit is a BIG HUGE MONSTEROUS AMERICA DESTROYING BEAST a raise of 2% to SAVE AMERICA isnt too much to ask to SAVE AMERICA is it?

 

[Oddball]

The "figures" don't deserve to be discussed seriously, as there are merely another re-re-re-re-reiteration of the stale old kleptocrat boilerplate that letting people keep what they earn deprives the moocher class of their loot.

Learn a new note, Johnny.

I'm still waiting on these "kleptocrats" to explain where thee money's gonna come from once they've looted all the producers... I never get an answer to that question.

That's because its a dumb question. No one wants all their money. Here's an example:

100 people order a 100 slice pizza, when the pizza comes one guy takes 80 slices. All I'm saying (misrepresent it if you must) is maybe that guy can take 75 slices instead of 80. 79 instead of 80. 79.5 slices instead of 80. If the deficit is a BIG HUGE MONSTEROUS AMERICA DESTROYING BEAST a raise of 2% to SAVE AMERICA isnt too much to ask to SAVE AMERICA is it?

Stupid example.

America's wealth isn't a finite commodity like a pizza and it's earned, not just cooked up by somebody else.

You flunk econ 101.

 

[ClosedCaption]

No example is good enough ever

So what about cutting spending and raising taxes 2%?

 

[Oddball]

Bad examples are never good enough.

 

[JBeukema]

The basis for the left's encouragement of class warfare is that all money belongs to the government

'Wealth'. The word you want is 'wealth'. All the money does, by law, belong to the Fed/Mint.

"Tax Breaks" encourage businesses to stay in the US and expand

And yet as they keep getting tax cut after tax cut, they continue to outsource jobs.

 

[JBeukema]

I would LOVE another war. It would solve ALL of our economic problems in a matter of months.

We're in the middle of the longest war in American history... Where's all this fixin'?

War: a whole lot of broken windows...