Civil Disobedience and Terry Schaivo

[menewa]

I have problems with the feds taking over, likewise Roe V Wade should be unconstitutional, as that too should be a state decision, as well as gay marriage.

I agree. States should handle all of these issues. Especially because issues like this are very sensitive to people depending on their local culture.

 

[menewa]

Maybe she is in a beautiful fantasy that you would love to destroy to avoid your own fears for her

This is an interesting possibility. But should hospital rooms be used to keep people in a "fantasy" land?

Hospitals are meant to heal and habilitate, not perpetuate uncertain "fantasy" states.

My problem is that congress is forcing to keep this woman alive while health care for plenty of aware people is disappearing. I guarantee you that if Schiavo had been some homeless woman with no insurance she wouldn't had been allowed to ever get plugged into the feeding tube in the first place.

 

[dilloduck]

This is an interesting possibility. But should hospital rooms be used to keep people in a "fantasy" land?

Hospitals are meant to heal and habilitate, not perpetuate uncertain "fantasy" states.

My problem is that congress is forcing to keep this woman alive while health care for plenty of aware people is disappearing. I guarantee you that if Schiavo had been some homeless woman with no insurance she wouldn't had been allowed to ever get plugged into the feeding tube in the first place.

And they say Republicans are the ones who worship the almighty dollar !!

 

[no1tovote4]

In order to better understand the quality of life of one who lives in such a dire condition as Terri Schiavo, I suggest readin Dalton Trumbo's great novel "Johnny Got His Gun." The book traces the inner-thoughts of a WWI soldier that get nearly blown apart in the trenches. For years, lies in a hospital room, unable to communicate or move on his own or any other basic human action. He basically goes insane because he is trapped in his head and stuck on a bed for a time that is immeasurable to him. While this is a work of fiction, the story is all too applicable in this case.

If there is a hell, I guarantee Schiavo's parents will be going and their torture will be to lay on a slab, unable to convey any thoughts to others, for thousands of years.

There is a movie about this and the song "One" by Metallica is also about this. However you make the case where this one person might have felt this way, but it is not clear how you or I would. It is much like Parenthood, you have what you think is an idea about it right up to the moment you have children, then you realize you were wrong.

 

[musicman]

so I guess this validates the return fire tactics of blocking judicial nominees, right?

I honestly don't know how you arrive at that. Democrats - most notably, Ted Kennedy - have been saying for years that senate rules, such as the super-majority and the filibuster, are by NO MEANS carved in stone. However, now that the Democrats are at a disadvantage (that is to say - now that the will of the people as regards judicial appointments has a chance to get a fair hearing), they're squealing like a bunch of hysterical hairdressers. The Republicans are Nazis all of a sudden. It's disingenuous.

because so many people on here have said two wrongs dont make a right, you've just invalidated that argument by saying dems have ignored states rights so its ok for republicans to do now.

The XIVth Amendment, on the other hand, IS carved in stone. It is the law of the land. When state law comes into conflict with the Bill of Rights, the Bill of Rights MUST prevail. No honest states-rights advocate has EVER claimed that federal review is wrong in and of itself, or that it NECESSARILY constitutes usurpation of the separation of powers. It is with the interpretation and application of federal intervention that I've had problems. This case is actually pretty clear-cut, from where I stand. It is absolutely plausible that Terri is about to be deprived of her life without due process. If that's not an occasion to enforce the XIVth Amendment, I honestly don't know what is; throw the sucker out - it's meaningless. Your claim that there exists some sort of double standard doesn't hold water. The federal government is supposed to intervene - is constitutionally BOUND to intervene, sometimes. I've never said any different.

 

[musicman]

Funny thing now is they found a memo going around for the Republicans to support Terri because it will help them get points in the next election

Yeah, I saw that crap, too. So cleverly worded: "Republicans distanced themselves from a memo...". No specifics on the memo. No attempt to establish its veracity - only the one cryptic reference. Was it composed on a 1928 Underwood? Furtively scrawled on a piece of toilet paper by Sandy Berger? We just don't know.

Frankly, I'm amazed the mainstream media has the guts to use the word, "memo" in this way. I guess seeing Dan Rather publicly disemboweled, and watching their own ratings go into a free-fall as Americans learn who can and can't be trusted to report the simple truth, didn't take.

Maybe aversion therapy would help.

 

[Bonnie]

This is an interesting possibility. But should hospital rooms be used to keep people in a "fantasy" land?

Hospitals are meant to heal and habilitate, not perpetuate uncertain "fantasy" states.

My problem is that congress is forcing to keep this woman alive while health care for plenty of aware people is disappearing. I guarantee you that if Schiavo had been some homeless woman with no insurance she wouldn't had been allowed to ever get plugged into the feeding tube in the first place.

Hospitals are also not in the business of starving a helpless woman to death

Congress is not forcing to keep her alive (Your words) they are making sure she gets her due process under the law which is in the 8th and 14 th amendments by having a federal judge hear the whole case not just her "husbands" side of the story..........

 

[Annie]

Hospitals are also not in the business of starving a helpless woman to death

Congress is not forcing to keep her alive (Your words) they are making sure she gets her due process under the law which is in the 8th and 14 th amendments by having a federal judge hear the whole case not just her "husbands" side of the story..........

Then again, we are talking HOSPICE not Hospital.

 

[Bonnie]

Then again, we are talking HOSPICE not Hospital.

Well if Hospice means do whatever empties the bed, Ill take my chances at the hospital. :tng:

 

['ol Perfessor]

Trying to equate a broken bone with an almost totally dead brain is like comparing an apple to a 747. Terry is actually missing significant portions of her brain that have been replaced by spinal fluid. So let's suppose that Seabiscuit's injury had been one where 2 of his legs had been severed completely off, do you think they would have tried to keep him alive, or would they have put him down?

I found an article about some of the characters in the dispassionate play. The proper procedures to determine her condition were never done. That's why so many other soulless medicos are willing to lend their normally agreeable voices to the chorus of people wondering what is going on here. For my part I insist that if you get laringitis in Florida they'll put you to sleep. There are also many articles that reveal that this, ( starvation-dehydration), is a common practice among the aged after a decree from the AMA! Plus Seabiscuit is a horse

 

[Bonnie]

Yeah, I saw that crap, too. So cleverly worded: "Republicans distanced themselves from a memo...". No specifics on the memo. No attempt to establish its veracity - only the one cryptic reference. Was it composed on a 1928 Underwood? Furtively scrawled on a piece of toilet paper by Sandy Berger? We just don't know.

Frankly, I'm amazed the mainstream media has the guts to use the word, "memo" in this way. I guess seeing Dan Rather publicly disemboweled, and watching their own ratings go into a free-fall as Americans learn who can and can't be trusted to report the simple truth, didn't take.

Maybe aversion therapy would help.

 

[Bosox21]

Bosox Wrote:


Bosox, just a quick word of advice: If you want to post and sound like an intelligent person worthy of debate you really have to make sure you know what you are talking about before you post nonsense like what you have written here.

I got my info from Doctor Sanjay Gupta and another Docotr on CNN, last night. I also have 3 dodctors who examined Terri and were deemed credible by the Florida courts.The same docotr said that people in her state will respond if you make a sound to a certain side, but that doesnt mean thier cognizant of whats is happening, as they are still in a vegetated state.The only eveidence you have is doctors who have seen a tape. Speaking for myself I ussually go to the doctor to be checked out not send in a tape for analysis. It seems your entire defense is made up of half truths and speculation.

Alsom some one asked for a source on the memo the Republicans put out to take adavntage of the sistuation. I found an article talking about it here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49701-2005Mar19.html

Aslo, Im not here to make freinds. Im posting what I belive, I dont think because you belive diffrently than me your evil. Execpt for the man who thinks Liberals are Nazis, thats sick and moronic.

 

[Said1]

You have three (3) doctors? very interesting.

And you have the nerve to link to the Washington Post after slamming Fox with your very first post? what a dolt!

What was that doctor's name on the simpsons?

"Doctorb. ? "
"Yes that's right, doctor with a B". :rotflmao:

 

[Said1]

And I have an excuse for all the typos I make, so

 

[Bosox21]

Thank you, your lack of a serous reply indicates that your wrong and have no argument. Just as the 19 judges have said. Also, another poll, this one by CNN says 51% of Americans agree the tube should stay out while 32% think it should go in 17% uncertain; So you right wingers still in the minority. Bill Maher asked a good question, if you love god so much why are you guys so scared to meet him/her.

 

[Said1]

Thank you, your lack of a serous reply indicates that your wrong and have no argument

Yeah, ok. Doctorb. Botox was it?

Just as the 19 judges have said. Also, another poll, this one by CNN says 51% of Americans agree the tube should stay out while 32% think it should go in 17% uncertain; So you right wingers still in the minority. Bill Maher asked a good question, if you love god so much why are you guys so scared to meet him/her.

Are you watching that right now? Serious question?

 

[Trinity]

Thank you, your lack of a serous reply indicates that your wrong and have no argument. Just as the 19 judges have said. Also, another poll, this one by CNN says 51% of Americans agree the tube should stay out while 32% think it should go in 17% uncertain; So you right wingers still in the minority. Bill Maher asked a good question, if you love god so much why are you guys so scared to meet him/her.

I have a poll for you! USMB 98% say you are an idiot! 2% are unsure!

 

[Bonnie]

Botox...by CNN says 51% of Americans agree the tube should stay out while 32% think it should go in 17% uncertain; So you right wingers still in the minority.

So what?????? Most people really don't know much about the whole case except for the ridiculous elitist buzz phrase die with dignity which translates into legal homicide while thinking they are being open minded and noble. They question nothing. For example when the cops first investigated Terri's death they wrote homicide on the report, and nothing was done about it, until the parents found the original paperwork four years later, but oh well it was too late to file for an official inquiry............Also after Terri's "accident" her family discoverd she had suffered a broken femur and broken back which was never reported officially but has been corrborated by independent doctors.
If she was incapacitated how the hell did that happen?? Three of her childhood friends have not been allowed to testify in court to the fact that Terri was in the process of filing for divorce when she had her accident, she was unhappy in the so called "sacred marriage". There is a pulitzer prize nominated doctor that specializes in treating terri's exact condition who has met with her on three seperate occasions for who emphatically states that she could rehabilitated to the point of even talking someday and that children with Cerebral Palsy are worse off than her, but he has never been allowed to testify in court proceedings but has done so publicly for the record. When Terri's parents go to visit her in the hospice they are almost strip searched and watched by a cop at all times while they visit their daughter so as to make sure they don't give her any water, and her loving husband has denied last rites for Terri which her being Catholic is devastating to her parents..

So you can take Dr Sanjeev Gupta and Bill Maher and JAM them both straight up yout pompous uninformed asshole!!!!!!!!

 

[MissileMan]

[QUOTE='ol Perfessor]I found an article about some of the characters in the dispassionate play. The proper procedures to determine her condition were never done. That's why so many other soulless medicos are willing to lend their normally agreeable voices to the chorus of people wondering what is going on here. For my part I insist that if you get laringitis in Florida they'll put you to sleep. There are also many articles that reveal that this, ( starvation-dehydration), is a common practice among the aged after a decree from the AMA! Plus Seabiscuit is a horse[/QUOTE]

I wasn't the one who started the Seabiscuit comparison. From what I've read, here http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html , there is no dispute that her brain damage is so severe that she will never again be cognizant.

I'd be interested in a link to the article you mentioned though.

 

[theim]

To me, the hell would be that she can think. If she's a vegie, it doesn't matter, but if she iss cognizant, then she is trapped in a nightmare from which she can't awaken. It's like she is buried alive in a glass coffin beneath transparent soil.

I'm not sure what "cognizant" means, but if she has any thinking capacity at all, letting her starve to death is moraly reprehensible. But its not as though liberals ever let things so archaic as "morals" decide their actions.