Civil Disobedience and Terry Schaivo

[musicman]

You're making friends fast around here, Botox.

 

[Annie]

WSJ has an op-ed on why Congress intervened. I like that it mentions state's rights, yet says because dems have ignored it, makes it ok. I'm not convinced, but I understand where they are coming from regarding 'life':

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006450

Terri Schiavo and the Law
The case for life.

Monday, March 21, 2005 12:01 a.m. EST

Today will be Terri Schiavo's fourth day without food or water. By the end of the day, both Houses of Congress are expected to have passed, and President Bush is expected to have signed into law, a bill that will allow a federal court to review her case. The hope is that a federal judge will order that her feeding tube be reinserted.

And then it will be off to the races again as her case works its way through the federal judiciary, perhaps all the way to the Supreme Court. In Florida so far, at least 19 judges in six courts have weighed in on Mrs. Schiavo's case since 1990, when she suffered the heart attack that left her severely brain damaged.

Since then her parents have been locked in a highly public legal battle with her husband, Michael, who says that Terri would not have wanted to live in an incapacitated state. Mrs. Schiavo was a practicing Catholic and she left no living will, but a Florida judge years ago agreed with Mr. Schiavo--a finding of "fact" that has made the subsequent appeals difficult.

Another judge might look differently today on Mr. Schiavo's right-to-die claims given his apparent incentives to be rid of the burden of a severely disabled wife. He lives with a girlfriend, with whom he has children. It was not until 1993, after a medical-malpractice jury awarded him roughly $1 million for Terri's long-term care, that he began to seek his wife's death.

A Florida court has twice before ordered Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube removed--in 2001 and 2003. Six days after the latter episode, the Florida legislature passed "Terri's Law," which allowed Governor Jeb Bush to intervene. Last year the Florida Supreme Court ruled that Terri's Law was unconstitutional.
We review this history both to show how poorly Florida's legal system has served Mrs. Schiavo, and to explain the reasons that Congress is taking the extraordinary step of intervening in what normally would be considered a matter solely for a state's judicial system. The conservative Republicans leading this effort--Senators Bill Frist and Rick Santorum, Representative Tom DeLay--are taking hits for supposedly abandoning their federalist principles.

We'd have more sympathy for this argument if the same liberals who are complaining about the possibility of the federal courts reviewing Mrs. Schiavo's case felt as strongly about restraining the federal judiciary when it comes to abortion, homosexuality, and other social issues they don't want to trust to local communities. In any event, these critics betray their lack of understanding of the meaning of federalism. It is not simply about "states' rights." Conservatives support states' rights in areas that are not delegated to the federal government but they also support federal power in areas that are delegated.

Think of an analogy to the writ of habeas corpus. As John Eastman of the Claremont Institute points out, "We have federal court review of state court judgments all the time in the criminal law context." The bill before Congress essentially treats the Florida judgment as a death sentence, warranting federal habeas review. Mrs. Schiavo is not on life support. The court order to remove the feeding tube is an order to starve her to death. Moreover, Mrs. Schiavo is arguably being deprived of her life without due process of law, a violation of the 14th Amendment that Congress has the power to address...

 

[dilloduck]

WSJ has an op-ed on why Congress intervened. I like that it mentions state's rights, yet says because dems have ignored it, makes it ok. I'm not convinced, but I understand where they are coming from regarding 'life':

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006450

 

[SmarterThanYou]

so I guess this validates the return fire tactics of blocking judicial nominees, right? because so many people on here have said two wrongs dont make a right, you've just invalidated that argument by saying dems have ignored states rights so its ok for republicans to do now.

 

[Annie]

so I guess this validates the return fire tactics of blocking judicial nominees, right? because so many people on here have said two wrongs dont make a right, you've just invalidated that argument by saying dems have ignored states rights so its ok for republicans to do now.

I didn't say any such thing.

 

[dilloduck]

so I guess this validates the return fire tactics of blocking judicial nominees, right? because so many people on here have said two wrongs dont make a right, you've just invalidated that argument by saying dems have ignored states rights so its ok for republicans to do now.

Why not---again, this has become an issue of political influence on social issues. BOTH sides will use what ever tactics is takes to get their way. Are Replicans to be held to a higher standard?

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Are Replicans to be held to a higher standard?

not anymore apparently. From my beginning on this board as DK, I started out as a huge liberal, at least thats what I thought. I've learned alot in that time and switched sides many times because alot of what the republicans/conservatives on here made sense. One of the things I appreciated was the consistency on all issues. But since the 2004 elections, as the republicans gained more power, i've seen more inconsistency from the republicans/conservatives than i've seen from the other side. It's no longer about whats conservative, its about power and flipflopping on every issue depending on which way the political wind is blowing on that particular day.

All in All, if thats conservatism, I'd rather be a liberal. gone are the good republican days of the reagan era.

 

[dilloduck]

not anymore apparently. From my beginning on this board as DK, I started out as a huge liberal, at least thats what I thought. I've learned alot in that time and switched sides many times because alot of what the republicans/conservatives on here made sense. One of the things I appreciated was the consistency on all issues. But since the 2004 elections, as the republicans gained more power, i've seen more inconsistency from the republicans/conservatives than i've seen from the other side. It's no longer about whats conservative, its about power and flipflopping on every issue depending on which way the political wind is blowing on that particular day.

All in All, if thats conservatism, I'd rather be a liberal. gone are the good republican days of the reagan era.

so all the pigs have fell in the mud--maybe you should tell Both of em to clean up their act instead of just expecting consistant behavior out of one party

 

[SmarterThanYou]

so all the pigs have fell in the mud--maybe you should tell Both of em to clean up their act instead of just expecting consistant behavior out of one party

ROFL, how many times has that been tried? countless. what happens if ANYONE dares stand up to the two major parties in this country? ridicule and slander.

going along with one party over the other like you are doing simply perpetuates this crap.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

You are a liberal because they are more consistent? Give me a break. Look at what John Kerry was doing. Look at how a lot of the tolerant liberals act toward conservatives (especially on college campuses).

 

[Bonnie]

not anymore apparently. From my beginning on this board as DK, I started out as a huge liberal, at least thats what I thought. I've learned alot in that time and switched sides many times because alot of what the republicans/conservatives on here made sense. One of the things I appreciated was the consistency on all issues. But since the 2004 elections, as the republicans gained more power, i've seen more inconsistency from the republicans/conservatives than i've seen from the other side. It's no longer about whats conservative, its about power and flipflopping on every issue depending on which way the political wind is blowing on that particular day.

All in All, if thats conservatism, I'd rather be a liberal. gone are the good republican days of the reagan era.

And to Democrats this is not politics???? By the way Reagan would have done what he could have to save this woman's life as well.

Answer this why has the "husband" refused any video of Terri to be released? why has he on many occasions refused her parents the right to see Terri?

 

[no1tovote4]

And to Democrats this is not politics???? By the way Reagan would have done what he could have to save this woman's life as well.

Answer this why has the "husband" refused any video of Terri to be released? why has he on many occasions refused her parents the right to see Terri?

Her parents were brushing her teeth and caring for her after he began proceedings to end her life and stopped caring for her in this way. And there were creating videotape that actually showed her reacting to surroundings, therefore not vegetative by any definition that I have seen heretofore.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Anybody have Realplayer? Here are some videos of Terri in her "vegetative state".

http://whatattitudeproblem.blogs.com/home/2005/03/this_is_not_a_b.html

 

[menewa]

In order to better understand the quality of life of one who lives in such a dire condition as Terri Schiavo, I suggest readin Dalton Trumbo's great novel "Johnny Got His Gun." The book traces the inner-thoughts of a WWI soldier that get nearly blown apart in the trenches. For years, lies in a hospital room, unable to communicate or move on his own or any other basic human action. He basically goes insane because he is trapped in his head and stuck on a bed for a time that is immeasurable to him. While this is a work of fiction, the story is all too applicable in this case.

If there is a hell, I guarantee Schiavo's parents will be going and their torture will be to lay on a slab, unable to convey any thoughts to others, for thousands of years.

 

[ReillyT]

In order to better understand the quality of life of one who lives in such a dire condition as Terri Schiavo, I suggest readin Dalton Trumbo's great novel "Johnny Got His Gun." The book traces the inner-thoughts of a WWI soldier that get nearly blown apart in the trenches. For years, lies in a hospital room, unable to communicate or move on his own or any other basic human action. He basically goes insane because he is trapped in his head and stuck on a bed for a time that is immeasurable to him. While this is a work of fiction, the story is all too applicable in this case.

If there is a hell, I guarantee Schiavo's parents will be going and their torture will be to lay on a slab, unable to convey any thoughts to others, for thousands of years.

That seems very harsh. They just love their daughter and don't want to let her go. Besides, if the doctors are right and Terri has no cognitive ability, she is not in any torture right now.

 

[dilloduck]

That seems very harsh. They just love their daughter and don't want to let her go. Besides, if the doctors are right and Terri has no cognitive ability, she is not in any torture right now.

Why is it that pro-choicers are so convinced that Terri is going through hell because she is alive without the ability to think-----oh ya---thinking is their god. Quick--get rid of the nonthinking bod. sorta like a fetus that hasnt "developed" enough yet

 

[menewa]

That seems very harsh. They just love their daughter and don't want to let her go. Besides, if the doctors are right and Terri has no cognitive ability, she is not in any torture right now.

What's harsh is Delay using the Congres to override a state decision. He is making the nightmares of the anti-federalists come to pass.

Her parents are vampires who trust much more in modern technology than in the hand of God, and they will suffer for their trespass.

 

[Annie]

What's harsh is Delay using the Congres to override a state decision. He is making the nightmares of the anti-federalists come to pass.

Her parents are vampires who trust much more in modern technology than in the hand of God, and they will suffer for their trespass.

I have problems with the feds taking over, likewise Roe V Wade should be unconstitutional, as that too should be a state decision, as well as gay marriage.

 

[menewa]

Why is it that pro-choicers are so convinced that Terri is going through hell because she is alive without the ability to think-----oh ya---thinking is their god. Quick--get rid of the nonthinking bod. sorta like a fetus that hasnt "developed" enough yet

To me, the hell would be that she can think. If she's a vegie, it doesn't matter, but if she iss cognizant, then she is trapped in a nightmare from which she can't awaken. It's like she is buried alive in a glass coffin beneath transparent soil.

 

[dilloduck]

To me, the hell would be that she can think. If she's a vegie, it doesn't matter, but if she iss cognizant, then she is trapped in a nightmare from which she can't awaken. It's like she is buried alive in a glass coffin beneath transparent soil.

Maybe she is in a beautiful fantasy that you would love to destroy to avoid your own fears for her