Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[Mertex]

The cake didn't have to be delivered, it could be picked up from the store. No sinning, nothing at all.

No one put the bakery out of business, they did that themselves.
Keep in mind that NOWHERE on their website does it say that they won't bake cakes for homosexual weddings. They say they bake cakes for ALL occasions. If they don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, state that on the website, and in the store.

Problem solved.

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

A church is not a public business. Churches can refuse to marry heterosexual couples that have been divorced, too.

 

[tinydancer]

I have a hard time with this. I've not only read both books, I've read both many times.

Love the sinner not the sin. I'm testy on this. Why should any Christian deny two people who want to join in love a cake.

Come on.

Why would any good christian want to hurt these people?

 

[Papageorgio]

The cake didn't have to be delivered, it could be picked up from the store. No sinning, nothing at all.

No one put the bakery out of business, they did that themselves.
Keep in mind that NOWHERE on their website does it say that they won't bake cakes for homosexual weddings. They say they bake cakes for ALL occasions. If they don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, state that on the website, and in the store.

Problem solved.

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

We have religious freedom in this country and it is a basis of all our freedoms. One should not be forced to give up their sacred views to amuse another person.

I still would like you to address your comments about Indians. I find it very hypocritical of you to demand others to end their bigotry, while you seem to practice yours.

 

[tinydancer]

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

A church is not a public business. Churches can refuse to marry heterosexual couples that have been divorced, too.

I don't get this couple at all that have denied the couple the right to a pretty wedding cake.

That's all this is about.

 

[Noomi]

I have a hard time with this. I've not only read both books, I've read both many times.

Love the sinner not the sin. I'm testy on this. Why should any Christian deny two people who want to join in love a cake.

Come on.

Why would any good christian want to hurt these people?

Because they are bigots, and haven't read their Bibles properly.

Some would say that in baking the cake, they are condoning the 'sin'.

 

[Mertex]

Although I'm a non-believer, I'm wondering why separation of Church and State does not apply in this situation?
Essentially the government is allowing persons who have different, and perhaps higher moral standards, to be discriminated against and even threatened physically.
The practical solution to the disagreement should have been for the couple to seek the services desired from another bakery in the competitive marketplace.
The Kleins, in my opinion, have legal grounds to seek and receive damages as a result of the actions taken against them in exercising their 1st Amendment right.

This ^

In other words, we might as well not have a Civil Rights Act, if public businesses are allowed to discriminate. Gays, and minorities have to just find some other business to serve them? I don't think so. If the couple has such warped beliefs that baking a cake for a homosexual couple is a sin, then they don't need to be in the cake baking business or any other business for that matter, because they are just using their faith as a cover for their bigotry. They are selling their goods to "sinners" all day long, so what difference is in selling to a gay from selling to a wife beater, an adulterer, or pedophile, or just a plain everyday sinner like all of us?

 

[Noomi]

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

We have religious freedom in this country and it is a basis of all our freedoms. One should not be forced to give up their sacred views to amuse another person.

I still would like you to address your comments about Indians. I find it very hypocritical of you to demand others to end their bigotry, while you seem to practice yours.

Who said anything about Indians?

 

[Mertex]

Although I'm a non-believer, I'm wondering why separation of Church and State does not apply in this situation?
Essentially the government is allowing persons who have different, and perhaps higher moral standards, to be discriminated against and even threatened physically.
The practical solution to the disagreement should have been for the couple to seek the services desired from another bakery in the competitive marketplace.
The Kleins, in my opinion, have legal grounds to seek and receive damages as a result of the actions taken against them in exercising their 1st Amendment right.

This ^

Then wasn't it the right of the gay couple to use their free speech and call for a boycott of the bakery?

Of course it was.

 

[tinydancer]

The cake didn't have to be delivered, it could be picked up from the store. No sinning, nothing at all.

No one put the bakery out of business, they did that themselves.
Keep in mind that NOWHERE on their website does it say that they won't bake cakes for homosexual weddings. They say they bake cakes for ALL occasions. If they don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, state that on the website, and in the store.

Problem solved.

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

Surely you can see it for a church Noomi. Come on.

 

[tinydancer]

I have a hard time with this. I've not only read both books, I've read both many times.

Love the sinner not the sin. I'm testy on this. Why should any Christian deny two people who want to join in love a cake.

Come on.

Why would any good christian want to hurt these people?

Because they are bigots, and haven't read their Bibles properly.

Some would say that in baking the cake, they are condoning the 'sin'.

Then that would make them really stupid Christians.

And really seriously fucked up.

 

[tinydancer]

I have been battling this for a long tome because of all of my gay friends back in TO. Its actually kept me from entering a ministry.
Because I don't understand why I have to hate well maybe that's not the right word but I don't understand why I have to condemn them.

 

[Noomi]

No, they really can't in Oregon. Oregon has a state law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and advertising discrimination based on sexual orientation would have gotten them in trouble a lot sooner - might have saved the gay couple a trip to their defunct bakery, though.

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

Surely you can see it for a church Noomi. Come on.

Nope. If it okay for the church (a business) to discriminate, why not other businesses, and vice versa?

 

[Noomi]

I have a hard time with this. I've not only read both books, I've read both many times.

Love the sinner not the sin. I'm testy on this. Why should any Christian deny two people who want to join in love a cake.

Come on.

Why would any good christian want to hurt these people?

Because they are bigots, and haven't read their Bibles properly.

Some would say that in baking the cake, they are condoning the 'sin'.

Then that would make them really stupid Christians.

And really seriously fucked up.

Well, yes, they are fucked up. They were pranked by a reporter and were happy to bake a cake for a woman who had multiple children out of wedlock (a sin) and were also happy to bake a cake for a woman who got a grant into human cloning.

They pick and choose their beliefs.

 

[Papageorgio]

Why is it okay for churches, though? Everyone knows that a church won't marry a gay couple, why the different rules?

Surely you can see it for a church Noomi. Come on.

Nope. If it okay for the church (a business) to discriminate, why not other businesses, and vice versa?

A church is a religious venue, not a business.

 

[Noomi]

Surely you can see it for a church Noomi. Come on.

Nope. If it okay for the church (a business) to discriminate, why not other businesses, and vice versa?

A church is a religious venue, not a business.

A church makes billions of dollars. Its a business. They are in it for a money, a lot of the time. They don't pay taxes either.

 

[Papageorgio]

Nope. If it okay for the church (a business) to discriminate, why not other businesses, and vice versa?

A church is a religious venue, not a business.

A church makes billions of dollars. Its a business. They are in it for a money, a lot of the time. They don't pay taxes either.

Some are, some just cover their expenses, they are given wide Constitutional freedoms in this country. They are granted freedom and immunities based on their beliefs. It is a protection of rights that are granted, just as other minorities are granted rights.

 

[Noomi]

Great, so if I start up the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I don't have to pay any tax?

 

[Papageorgio]

Great, so if I start up the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I don't have to pay any tax?

Not if you follow the IRS tax codes and laws.

 

[Noomi]

Great, so if I start up the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I don't have to pay any tax?

Not if you follow the IRS tax codes and laws.

Do regular churches follow these laws, and if not, how do they get out of paying taxes?

 

[Papageorgio]

Great, so if I start up the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I don't have to pay any tax?

Not if you follow the IRS tax codes and laws.

Do regular churches follow these laws, and if not, how do they get out of paying taxes?

They all have to follow the IRS tax rules, codes and laws to get and maintain tax exempt status.