Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[WorldWatcher]

Jews don't even drive their cars on the Sabbath. If they have stores open, it's because they have non Jews working there.

There is no prohibition against Christmas decorations.

Just wondering...

.........................Did you type that with a straight face?



>>>>

 

[Alfalfa]

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

So a venue that serves food and caters weddings, and various other parties where food and drink are served doesn't have a fridge?

Again too easy.

Did you stop to wonder what a fridge would look like to hold a constructed tiered wedding cake? Would YOU want to transport a constructed, tiered cake from table to fridge and back or were you just unaware that once together they cannot be moved. Again, too easy. These cakes are not welded together, they are balanced.

They're not moved constructed, each tier remains in it's own box until constructed on the table where it will be served.

For chrissakes, the arguments get more hysterical by the minute.

 

[Alfalfa]

The religious rights and beliefs of this Christian couple were violated. There is no way around it. The gay mafia won.

But not entirely. Christians were left a way out through the precedent set in New Mexico.

And what was that?

 

[Katzndogz]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

Let's examine this scenrio in a logical manner:

#1 - If the Jewish bakery had a history of setting Saturday as a closed day and did not operate it's business, Public Accommodation laws do not require the shop to open to take an order. The bakery could easily inform the couple that they are not available to contract the cake for that day. Perfectly legal as the reason for not taking the contract as long as the same standard is applied.

#2 - If the Jewish baker though advertised it hours as being open on Saturday, then they would have an issue.



>>>>

Actually, you're right!

Which is why the ruling in the Elane Photography case makes so much sense and allows Christians the right and ability to exercise greater freedom in choosing who they will work for.

 

[Immanuel]

The gay mafia at work.

Gay Activists Used 'Mafia Tactics' to Shut Down Bakery, Says Christian Couple

They've been militant. The best way I can describe it is they've used mafia tactics against the business. Basically, if you do business with Sweet Cakes, we will shut you down," he said

The couple claim that even after the protests and mafia tactics finally forced them to shut down their store on Saturday, they were still facing aggressive attacks as they packed up their belongings to move on Sunday.

Someone broke into their bakery truck and ransacked it on Sunday evening. The incident was confirmed by the Clackamas County Sheriff's office according to KATU, but no one has been arrested.

""I didn't want to be a part of her marriage which I think is wrong," Aaron Klein told KATU."

What marriage? Gay marriage is not recognized in Oregon.

Again, what deeply held religious belief was being violated?

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

 

[Alfalfa]

You know what's strange about all this? NO ONE knows how big this civil ceremony was going to be, whether it was even *at* a reception hall (I have attended a number of post-ceremony evens at people's houses, even one in a local park) or ANY other details about this event. NONE.

It could have been a small ceremony with a gathering after, where they had no tiers, a moderate sized cake, planned pick-up...any number of variables
NO
ONE
KNOWS

All we know is, they went in to discuss a cake for the ceremony, and it never went past "it's for two women" -- (not exact phrase, they said the names of the brides) --

That.was.it.

So all this cracky crap about halls, tiers, attending, bla bla bla is just speculation about a dork head who got his figgety ass all tailed up when heard it was a same-sex wedding.

Then proceeded to tell them they were "abominations."

All these other speculations are ridiculous.

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

The gay mafia at work.

Gay Activists Used 'Mafia Tactics' to Shut Down Bakery, Says Christian Couple

They've been militant. The best way I can describe it is they've used mafia tactics against the business. Basically, if you do business with Sweet Cakes, we will shut you down," he said

The couple claim that even after the protests and mafia tactics finally forced them to shut down their store on Saturday, they were still facing aggressive attacks as they packed up their belongings to move on Sunday.

Someone broke into their bakery truck and ransacked it on Sunday evening. The incident was confirmed by the Clackamas County Sheriff's office according to KATU, but no one has been arrested.

""I didn't want to be a part of her marriage which I think is wrong," Aaron Klein told KATU."

What marriage? Gay marriage is not recognized in Oregon.

Again, what deeply held religious belief was being violated?

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

So if it was a fake marriage with no legal authority the xtians would be equally correct in their bigotry?

So the biblical phrase in play here is "MArriage shall be between one man and one woman...including fake marriages"?

 

[RKMBrown]

It might not be understandable to someone without a moral code or moral compass. Only someone with principles can understand the refusal to participate in same sex ceremonies. It doesn't really matter what those principles are, being forced to violate them is the same no matter what it is.

And that again is the absolute point. It does not MATTER if the bakers are bigoted. It does not matter that to most of the free world they are in the wrong. It does not matter that their point of view makes no sense whatsoever to anybody else. They are nevertheless entitled to their beliefs and convictions.

And again, even if their reason was that they just didn't feel like doing a wedding cake on any given day, we must not condone their destruction purely because we do not agree with their views on something. And we must not condone our government forcing us to serve others against our beliefs, our convictions, our will or in any other circumstance.

If folks can't get that through their heads, then unalienable rights no longer are recognized in this country and no longer protected. And we are no longer free.

You are not and were not ever permitted to cause harm to another human being. The law states discriminating against another human based on race, creed, sexual orientation etc. in the public market place is a harm that is no longer tolerated in this country. Thus, it does matter that they are bigots who committed a bigoted act against the law against this gay person. Just because you are good with the act does not make the act a harm that is permitted. Just because someone then subsequently caused this baker a slight by harassing them with responsive emails and picketing does not forgive your sins.

 

[Katzndogz]

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

""I didn't want to be a part of her marriage which I think is wrong," Aaron Klein told KATU."

What marriage? Gay marriage is not recognized in Oregon.

Again, what deeply held religious belief was being violated?

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

So if it was a fake marriage with no legal authority the xtians would be equally correct in their bigotry?

So the biblical phrase in play here is "MArriage shall be between one man and one woman...including fake marriages"?

It might. Suppose it was a heterosexual couple and a cohabitation ceremony without marriage? The Christians opposed living in sin. It would end up the exact same way.

That's come up with landlords and inn keepers who refused to rent to couples just living together or running off to the Notell Motel.

 

[paperview]

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

So if it was a fake marriage with no legal authority the xtians would be equally correct in their bigotry?

So the biblical phrase in play here is "MArriage shall be between one man and one woman...including fake marriages"?

It might. Suppose it was a heterosexual couple and a cohabitation ceremony without marriage? The Christians opposed living in sin. It would end up the exact same way.

That's come up with landlords and inn keepers who refused to rent to couples just living together or running off to the Notell Motel.

They told the reporter (from the Pulitzer prize winning newspaper) they would bake a baby shower cake for a lady having her second baby with her boyfriend.

And a pagan solstice cake they would bake too.

With a pentagram design.

They's all in on that. Cafeteria christians as well as bakers.

 

[Katzndogz]

The religious rights and beliefs of this Christian couple were violated. There is no way around it. The gay mafia won.

But not entirely. Christians were left a way out through the precedent set in New Mexico.

And what was that?

If Elane Photography took photographs on its own time and sold them at a gallery, or if it was hired by certain clients but did not offer its services to the general public, the law would not apply to Elane Photography’s choice of whom to photograph or not.

http://www.nmcompcomm.us/nmcases/nmsc/slips/SC33,687.pdf

This is the correct ruling. Had the baker not advertised wedding cakes, but made wedding cakes by special arrangement, not offering such service to the general public, it could legally refuse to make cakes for same sex ceremonies of any kind.

 

[Katzndogz]

It would not help this baker, who was not only in a poor legal position, but had to undergo persecution by the gay mafia as well.

 

[paperview]

gay mafia.

Geezez Christ you folks are such whackadoodles.

 

[Immanuel]

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

""I didn't want to be a part of her marriage which I think is wrong," Aaron Klein told KATU."

What marriage? Gay marriage is not recognized in Oregon.

Again, what deeply held religious belief was being violated?

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

So if it was a fake marriage with no legal authority the xtians would be equally correct in their bigotry?

So the biblical phrase in play here is "MArriage shall be between one man and one woman...including fake marriages"?

Neither FF nor I have defended this bakery. I, myself have stated probably ten times in this thread that I would have served this couple. However, both of us have defended personal freedoms, something the left literally despises. You on the left have sold your souls to big government authoritarians.

I have to believe that you are young and do not have a clue what freedom really is. You seem to be intelligent, but you don't seem to have the faintest idea about what it means to live your own life and let others live their own.

The owners of this bakery are wrong and quite frankly their version of Christianity makes me cringe. They definitely do not represent the Christ I trust for my salvation, at least not well. But, people have the right to be jerks. I do not have to like the things you do. I have to support your right to do it as long as you are not hurting others and the owners of the bakery did nothing at all to this couple except tell them they did not want to participate in their celebration.

Immie

 

[Katzndogz]

Yes gay mafia.

The Gay Mafia That's Redefining Liberal Politics - TIME

Gay Mafia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Alfalfa]

Do you have the relevant section? I'm not going on a 30 page bug hunt...

 

[paperview]

Yes gay mafia.

The Gay Mafia That's Redefining Liberal Politics - TIME

Gay Mafia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You obviously don;'t read your own links.

Bythe way: the author of that Time piece is gay and you seriously

Do
Not
understand.

 

[Katzndogz]

Oh please the gay mafia attacked this couple and attacks anyone else that opposes the gay agenda.

Get real. This is a kind of social war.

 

[paperview]

 

[Alfalfa]

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is probably a duck. It does not matter what they call it, it is the same thing.

Immie

So if it was a fake marriage with no legal authority the xtians would be equally correct in their bigotry?

So the biblical phrase in play here is "MArriage shall be between one man and one woman...including fake marriages"?

Neither FF nor I have defended this bakery. I, myself have stated probably ten times in this thread that I would have served this couple. However, both of us have defended personal freedoms, something the left literally despises. You on the left have sold your souls to big government authoritarians.

I have to believe that you are young and do not have a clue what freedom really is. You seem to be intelligent, but you don't seem to have the faintest idea about what it means to live your own life and let others live their own.

The owners of this bakery are wrong and quite frankly their version of Christianity makes me cringe. They definitely do not represent the Christ I trust for my salvation, at least not well. But, people have the right to be jerks. I do not have to like the things you do. I have to support your right to do it as long as you are not hurting others and the owners of the bakery did nothing at all to this couple except tell them they did not want to participate in their celebration.

Immie

"I would never own a slave myself but I support the right of others to do so."

 

[Papageorgio]

.....

I'm not sure but I don't think we are allowed to link other message boards are we?