Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[Katzndogz]

Jews don't even drive their cars on the Sabbath. If they have stores open, it's because they have non Jews working there.

There is no prohibition against Christmas decorations.

 

[Foxfyre]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

Good point but not exactly the same thing as the Orthodox Jewish bakery wouldn't do weddings for ANYBODY, including other Jews, on the Sabbath. But the Jewish baker should not be forced to deliver to or set up at a neo-Nazi or skinhead or KKK convention or a harmonica festival on any other day if he did not choose to do that.

Nor should a gay baker, or anybody else, be forced to deliver to or set up at the Westboro Baptist Church or any other organization that actively denigrates or campaigns/demonstrates against gays and/or other groups.

It is not a matter of condoning bigotry. It is a matter of unalienable rights to openly profess what we believe and hold sacred. Nobody should be forced to hire a bigot, promote a bigot, or set up a wedding cake for a bigot. But the bigot has the unalienable right to his/her beliefs and convictions as does anybody else.

And to destroy somebody because (the rhetorical) YOU decided the person is a bigot or because he/she holds beliefs or convictions you don't share is wrong. It is indefensible. It is evil.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

Good point but not exactly the same thing as the Orthodox Jewish bakery wouldn't do weddings for ANYBODY, including other Jews, on the Sabbath. But the Jewish baker should not be forced to deliver to or set up at a neo-Nazi or skinhead or KKK convention or a harmonica festival on any other day if he did not choose to do that.

Nor should a gay baker, or anybody else, be forced to deliver to or set up at the Westboro Baptist Church or any other organization that actively denigrates or campaigns/demonstrates against gays and/or other groups.

It is not a matter of condoning bigotry. It is a matter of unalienable rights to openly profess what we believe and hold sacred. Nobody should be forced to hire a bigot, promote a bigot, or set up a wedding cake for a bigot. But the bigot has the unalienable right to his/her beliefs and convictions as does anybody else.

And to destroy somebody because (the rhetorical) YOU decided the person is a bigot or because he/she holds beliefs or convictions you don't share is wrong. It is indefensible. It is evil.

You are right. The position of the gay mafia is wrong, indefensible and evil.

 

[Katzndogz]

The gay mafia at work.

Gay Activists Used 'Mafia Tactics' to Shut Down Bakery, Says Christian Couple

They've been militant. The best way I can describe it is they've used mafia tactics against the business. Basically, if you do business with Sweet Cakes, we will shut you down," he said

The couple claim that even after the protests and mafia tactics finally forced them to shut down their store on Saturday, they were still facing aggressive attacks as they packed up their belongings to move on Sunday.

Someone broke into their bakery truck and ransacked it on Sunday evening. The incident was confirmed by the Clackamas County Sheriff's office according to KATU, but no one has been arrested.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

He could have delivered the cake Friday.

That was too easy.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

He could have delivered the cake Friday.

That was too easy.

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

 

[Sunshine]

Jews don't even drive their cars on the Sabbath. If they have stores open, it's because they have non Jews working there.

There is no prohibition against Christmas decorations.

I grew up in a small town. I have bought things from the business owners THEMSELVES on Saturday. You are full of shit.

 

[Alfalfa]

Because you have to actually attend the wedding venue.

There was no wedding so there was no wedding venue. It appears that there may have been a reception venue for a civil union, but that isn't a marriage, is it.

Next, the cake is delivered and set up long before any guests arrive, then the baker leaves. They don't go to any wedding/civil union ceremonies nor stay for the reception.

So now you're saying the objection the xtian bakers had was being forced to visit the reception hall to deliver the cake. Does that mean they can never visit that hall again in their life? Is it filled with gay cooties now?

You know what's strange about all this? NO ONE knows how big this civil ceremony was going to be, whether it was even *at* a reception hall (I have attended a number of post-ceremony evens at people's houses, even one in a local park) or ANY other details about this event. NONE.

It could have been a small ceremony with a gathering after, where they had no tiers, a moderate sized cake, planned pick-up...any number of variables
NO
ONE
KNOWS

All we know is, they went in to discuss a cake for the ceremony, and it never went past "it's for two women" -- (not exact phrase, they said the names of the brides) --

That.was.it.

So all this cracky crap about halls, tiers, attending, bla bla bla is just speculation about a dork head who got his figgety ass all tailed up when heard it was a same-sex wedding.

Then proceeded to tell them they were "abominations."

All these other speculations are ridiculous.

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

He could have delivered the cake Friday.

That was too easy.

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

So a venue that serves food and caters weddings, and various other parties where food and drink are served doesn't have a fridge?

Again too easy.

 

[Katzndogz]

Jews don't even drive their cars on the Sabbath. If they have stores open, it's because they have non Jews working there.

There is no prohibition against Christmas decorations.

I grew up in a small town. I have bought things from the business owners THEMSELVES on Saturday. You are full of shit.

That settles it! Your small town is representative of all Jews everywhere! How could I have been so blind as to not realize that your Jews are the same as all Jews.

There are plenty of bakeries owned by Christians that would have been happy to make this wedding cake too.

 

[Foxfyre]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

Jews do not close their stores any day of the week in the US. That scenario wouldn't happen. Jews even sell Christmas merchandise including decorations. Jews like money. How did you miss that part?

Orthodox and other fundamentalist Jewish sects obey the Sabbath laws. But just as there are Christians representing the most rigidly conservative fundamentalists to the most open minded, liberal, anything goes groups, there are all manner of Jewish sects ranging from deeply legalistic kosher religious to not religious at all.

 

[Katzndogz]

He could have delivered the cake Friday.

That was too easy.

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

So a venue that serves food and caters weddings, and various other parties where food and drink are served doesn't have a fridge?

Again too easy.

Did you stop to wonder what a fridge would look like to hold a constructed tiered wedding cake? Would YOU want to transport a constructed, tiered cake from table to fridge and back or were you just unaware that once together they cannot be moved. Again, too easy. These cakes are not welded together, they are balanced.

 

[paperview]

There was no wedding so there was no wedding venue. It appears that there may have been a reception venue for a civil union, but that isn't a marriage, is it.

Next, the cake is delivered and set up long before any guests arrive, then the baker leaves. They don't go to any wedding/civil union ceremonies nor stay for the reception.

So now you're saying the objection the xtian bakers had was being forced to visit the reception hall to deliver the cake. Does that mean they can never visit that hall again in their life? Is it filled with gay cooties now?

You know what's strange about all this? NO ONE knows how big this civil ceremony was going to be, whether it was even *at* a reception hall (I have attended a number of post-ceremony evens at people's houses, even one in a local park) or ANY other details about this event. NONE.

It could have been a small ceremony with a gathering after, where they had no tiers, a moderate sized cake, planned pick-up...any number of variables
NO
ONE
KNOWS

All we know is, they went in to discuss a cake for the ceremony, and it never went past "it's for two women" -- (not exact phrase, they said the names of the brides) --

That.was.it.

So all this cracky crap about halls, tiers, attending, bla bla bla is just speculation about a dork head who got his figgety ass all tailed up when heard it was a same-sex wedding.

Then proceeded to tell them they were "abominations."

All these other speculations are ridiculous.

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

And mafia! And Jews now.

These guys are entertaining, I'll give them that.

 

[Sunshine]

Jews don't even drive their cars on the Sabbath. If they have stores open, it's because they have non Jews working there.

There is no prohibition against Christmas decorations.

I grew up in a small town. I have bought things from the business owners THEMSELVES on Saturday. You are full of shit.

That settles it! Your small town is representative of all Jews everywhere! How could I have been so blind as to not realize that your Jews are the same as all Jews.

There are plenty of bakeries owned by Christians that would have been happy to make this wedding cake too.

You made a blanket statement that Jews don't work on Saturday. I gave you examples of some who do work on Saturday. You were wrong. Deal with it, dumbass.

 

[Katzndogz]

The religious rights and beliefs of this Christian couple were violated. There is no way around it. The gay mafia won.

But not entirely. Christians were left a way out through the precedent set in New Mexico.

 

[paperview]

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

So a venue that serves food and caters weddings, and various other parties where food and drink are served doesn't have a fridge?

Again too easy.

Did you stop to wonder what a fridge would look like to hold a constructed tiered wedding cake? Would YOU want to transport a constructed, tiered cake from table to fridge and back or were you just unaware that once together they cannot be moved. Again, too easy. These cakes are not welded together, they are balanced.

First, your ridiculous Jewish baker thing was astoundingly stoopid.

If a Jewish baker didn't bake cakes for delivery on Saturday, they'd be saying no to ALL weddings on Saturday. Not just the gheys. Duh.

Second, please give us some insight as to where you learned the details of the cake that was to be made. How big it was, how many it was to serve.

No one - NO ONE knows. Except the couple themselves, and I'm certain you have not talked to them. .

You're making up shit, and there's a word for that you know.

And as I recall, it's a sin in your religion.

 

[Foxfyre]

There was no wedding so there was no wedding venue. It appears that there may have been a reception venue for a civil union, but that isn't a marriage, is it.

Next, the cake is delivered and set up long before any guests arrive, then the baker leaves. They don't go to any wedding/civil union ceremonies nor stay for the reception.

So now you're saying the objection the xtian bakers had was being forced to visit the reception hall to deliver the cake. Does that mean they can never visit that hall again in their life? Is it filled with gay cooties now?

You know what's strange about all this? NO ONE knows how big this civil ceremony was going to be, whether it was even *at* a reception hall (I have attended a number of post-ceremony evens at people's houses, even one in a local park) or ANY other details about this event. NONE.

It could have been a small ceremony with a gathering after, where they had no tiers, a moderate sized cake, planned pick-up...any number of variables
NO
ONE
KNOWS

All we know is, they went in to discuss a cake for the ceremony, and it never went past "it's for two women" -- (not exact phrase, they said the names of the brides) --

That.was.it.

So all this cracky crap about halls, tiers, attending, bla bla bla is just speculation about a dork head who got his figgety ass all tailed up when heard it was a same-sex wedding.

Then proceeded to tell them they were "abominations."

All these other speculations are ridiculous.

Agreed. It appears most if not all of the anti-gay-cake argument is that the xtians were offended at having to go to the venue of either the ceremony or reception. Not only is there no evidence that was the concern of the bakers we don't even know if there WAS a venue.

And you're right. As soon as the xtians found out it was for a homosexual event/ceremony they said "nyet!". All this imbroglio over their objection to going to the venue was just made up by the anti's.

It does not MATTER what their reason was. If the KKK convention wanted to hire me to do anything, and if I found out what it was, I would also say NYET. I would provide a sevice for a gay wedding.

Again this bakery had provided products to this same gay couple for some time. They had no problem with gay people or serving gay people. Their objection was participating in any way in an event that they could not in good conscience condone.

We don't have to like the bakers' attitude about that. We might even choose to withhold our business because of that attitude and that is our right to do.

But to attack the bakers, threaten them, their family, their customers, their suppliers--to actively seek to destroy this business because the owners hold a conviction or belief? That is wrong. That is a violation of civil and unalienable rights. That is unAmerican. That is evil.

 

[Alfalfa]

The gay mafia at work.

Gay Activists Used 'Mafia Tactics' to Shut Down Bakery, Says Christian Couple

They've been militant. The best way I can describe it is they've used mafia tactics against the business. Basically, if you do business with Sweet Cakes, we will shut you down," he said

The couple claim that even after the protests and mafia tactics finally forced them to shut down their store on Saturday, they were still facing aggressive attacks as they packed up their belongings to move on Sunday.

Someone broke into their bakery truck and ransacked it on Sunday evening. The incident was confirmed by the Clackamas County Sheriff's office according to KATU, but no one has been arrested.

""I didn't want to be a part of her marriage which I think is wrong," Aaron Klein told KATU."

What marriage? Gay marriage is not recognized in Oregon.

Again, what deeply held religious belief was being violated?

 

[Skull Pilot]

These cakes are buttercream and would not survive an overnighter.

So a venue that serves food and caters weddings, and various other parties where food and drink are served doesn't have a fridge?

Again too easy.

Did you stop to wonder what a fridge would look like to hold a constructed tiered wedding cake? Would YOU want to transport a constructed, tiered cake from table to fridge and back or were you just unaware that once together they cannot be moved. Again, too easy. These cakes are not welded together, they are balanced.

Every restaurant or banquet hall I have ever been in had a walk-in fridge.

But It's not too hard to put a cake together. As long as all the supports are left in the cakes

The next day all you have to do is place the upper cakes on the support bases of the lower cake in the correct order.

If you ever played with blocks you can put a wedding cake together.

You're just looking for any excuse here aren't you?

Want to keep trying?

Most business owners solve piddly problems like these all day long.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If the baker was Jewish and the wedding to take place on a Saturday, what would the gay couple do when they learn they won't get their cake at all? Would they sue or change the date?

Let's examine this scenrio in a logical manner:

#1 - If the Jewish bakery had a history of setting Saturday as a closed day and did not operate it's business, Public Accommodation laws do not require the shop to open to take an order. The bakery could easily inform the couple that they are not available to contract the cake for that day. Perfectly legal as the reason for not taking the contract as long as the same standard is applied.

#2 - If the Jewish baker though advertised it hours as being open on Saturday, then they would have an issue.



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