China is laughing at us - Nikki Haley

[alang1216]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

China and the rest of the world have been laughing at us for the last 4 years, so this is hardly a newsflash. What really makes them happy is when we announce we don't live in a democracy because our elections are corrupted, they can say to their people "is this what you want?".

Are you referring to Stacey Abrams and how she calls herself the real Governor of GA?

Just one of many people saying our system is broken (real or imagined). We have Proud Boys and Antifa too. Hilarious.

 

[otto105]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

How does nikki know this? Is she in an official position?

I am guessing she has some connections in Washington. What do you think? LOL

I’m thinking that even a lowland orc would know that Nikki is dumbing her message to increase her electability with knuckle dragging maga fuckups

 

[otto105]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

He didn’t shutdown travel from China, he slowed it.

speaking of that hospital ship, it didn’t treat anyone.

 

[Clipper]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

So what? Over 500,000 people died under Trump's watch.

 

[Winston]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

Who is we? I told you, I pay taxes and give to charity. Hell I donated my own blood for 14 mos to help whose with COVID as I had the antibodies. What specifically did you do? You speak in grandiose views but they are irrelevant. My skills were there due to genetics yes but also through hard work, perseverance and determination. I am not sure where you’re going with this but again you’re long winded and don’t have a point. What specifically is your point? Can you make it relevantly and concisely?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

How does nikki know this? Is she in an official position?

I am guessing she has some connections in Washington. What do you think? LOL

I’m thinking that even a lowland orc would know that Nikki is dumbing her message to increase her electability with knuckle dragging maga fuckups

You’re thinking? Since when? Did you listen to the audio? Show me specifically where she does that.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

He didn’t shutdown travel from China, he slowed it.

speaking of that hospital ship, it didn’t treat anyone.

He did and it didn’t because there was no need. Cuomo killed most of the people by then.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

So what? Over 500,000 people died under Trump's watch.

Yep it was 100% his fault. LOL. You’re truly an exceptional person.

 

[Clipper]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

How does nikki know this? Is she in an official position?

I am guessing she has some connections in Washington. What do you think? LOL

I’m thinking that even a lowland orc would know that Nikki is dumbing her message to increase her electability with knuckle dragging maga fuckups

You’re thinking? Since when? Did you listen to the audio? Show me specifically where she does that.

Moron Wall Of Fame: you & other MAGA worshippers who still think that the Orange Baboon won. Too many to mention.

 

[Clipper]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

So what? Over 500,000 people died under Trump's watch.

Yep it was 100% his fault. LOL. You’re truly an exceptional person.

Moron Wall Of Fame: MAGA strokers who think the Orange Baboon handled the pandemic well.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

How does nikki know this? Is she in an official position?

I am guessing she has some connections in Washington. What do you think? LOL

I’m thinking that even a lowland orc would know that Nikki is dumbing her message to increase her electability with knuckle dragging maga fuckups

You’re thinking? Since when? Did you listen to the audio? Show me specifically where she does that.

Moron Wall Of Fame: you & other MAGA worshippers who still think that the Orange Baboon won. Too many to mention.

Show one post where I said he still won? You are one deranged person.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

So what? Over 500,000 people died under Trump's watch.

Yep it was 100% his fault. LOL. You’re truly an exceptional person.

Moron Wall Of Fame: MAGA strokers who think the Orange Baboon handled the pandemic well.

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Nikki Haley who can't decide whether or not to kiss Trump's ass from one day to the next is someone to be quoted? She wants to run for POTUS but won't if Trump does. How bigly of her.

And that is just it. If she had any principals. If she really did believe in "America First", then she would run against Trump. Instead, she is just another Republican coward that cares only about her own self-preservation and wouldn't care if the country went to hell in a hand basket as long as she had a position of power.

Why would you run against Trump if you’re America First when his message and policies were America First? He sent mean tweets though so persons like you were offended.

None of Trump's policies were America First. The tariffs, they cost you more than any savings from the taxcut. Breaking international agreements like the one with Iran did an immense amount of damage to the reputation of the United States. I mean why would any country negotiate an agreement with us when the next presidential election could result in the rescinding of that agreement. Trump's policies were Trump first, from refusing to divest himself from his business to passing a tax cut package that benefits himself and his family to the tune of billions. I mean don't get me wrong, I made out like a bandit with his pass through exemption, but that don't make it right.

Trump was the wealthiest president ever. Before him, it was Washington. And Washington had the most corrupt administration in the history of the country, until Trump. I mean that should be a lesson to the American public. Biden is a refreshing change, hell he is a pauper compared to many presidents. That bodes well for all of us, you wait and see.

Myself and my clients disagree. We noticed significant savings and business development uptick.

Did you do so well when he screwed up the COVID response...

Trump had one of the worst responses to virus especially considering the resources the previous administration gave him to have advance knowledge around the world. He could have stock piled PPE,....

Other nations just pitied the US for having such inept leader... He was an embarrassment for American but what was worst was his supporters... The man was a jackass but his supporters still followed him...

What best describes him:
If Trump was in charge after Pearl Harbour, he proclaim it a Hawaii State problem, they didn't vote for him and governor sucks...

You misspelled best. Shut down travel from China. Operation warp speed. He told people that hydroxychloroquine helps, people laughed. He sped up the building of ventilators. He moved a hospital ship to NY and helped build out the Javits Center.

You're a foreigner who is brainwashed by CNN.

So what? Over 500,000 people died under Trump's watch.

Yep it was 100% his fault. LOL. You’re truly an exceptional person.

Moron Wall Of Fame: MAGA strokers who think the Orange Baboon handled the pandemic well.

You seem upset. Need a safe space, little man?

 

[Winston]

Sorry that I am long winded, but attempting to concisely

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

Who is we? I told you, I pay taxes and give to charity. Hell I donated my own blood for 14 mos to help whose with COVID as I had the antibodies. What specifically did you do? You speak in grandiose views but they are irrelevant. My skills were there due to genetics yes but also through hard work, perseverance and determination. I am not sure where you’re going with this but again you’re long winded and don’t have a point. What specifically is your point? Can you make it relevantly and concisely?

Sorry I am long winded, but attempting to concisely define the political philosophy of the world's most preeminent political philosopher is a bit daunting.

Justice Course – Harvard Justice

justiceharvard.org

Take the course, it is free, and millions of people have taken it. He is really "huge" in China. Without a doubt, he is the most engaging professor I have ever been associated with. I would really be interested in how you answer the trolley car question from his first lecture. But I will give it a shot.

The circumstances of your birth, from your birth order to the genetics you were gifted, have nothing to do with YOU. Rather or not society itself places value on those circumstances, has nothing to do with YOU. So you have a debt, a debt to providence, a debt to society, for those "gifts".

One of the best parts of Sandel's lectures happens in about lecture four. Here he is, at Harvard University, in a class with hundreds of students, and he asked everyone that is a first born child to raise their hands. At least three fourths of that class raise their hands. First borns have an advantage, and you can see it in the eyes of the students as they suddenly realize that reality as they look around and notice all the others raising their hands. They had nothing to do with that, and here they are, at a world class institution, and part of that might not have been through their own hard work but through the circumstances of their birth.

But you asked about me. Well I live in the South Mountain area of North Carolina on land that my family has owned since before the American Revolution. In fact, like most people around me, it was a King's Grant. While my grandfather might have been raised dirt poor as a migrant farm worker, my other grandfather was given a Cadillac at 16 and his father owned thousand of acres of, what is now, prime Blue Ridge mountain real estate. That is the source of the King's grant. The truth is, I never had to strike a damn lick. I could have sat back and waited to get my inheritance, except for one thing. It don't work that way with my family. That goes back to the migrant farm worker. While other family members did just that, sat back and waited, Dad made sure that you "earned" that inheritance. He might have not taken Sandel's course, but he understood the concept. Those that waited ended up with nothing. Those that used their talents to improve society were gifted that land. I have six kids, a couple doctors, one medical, the other material science, a philosophy major LOL, and a health management major. The one without a degree makes six figures as a real estate agent, go figure.

Me, I understand explicitly the gifts that God has granted me. I understand that I, in no way, deserve those gifts. And I give back, actually more than I keep for myself. Because in the end, what we have accomplished means nothing, but what we leave behind is the only legacy we have.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Sorry that I am long winded, but attempting to concisely

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

Who is we? I told you, I pay taxes and give to charity. Hell I donated my own blood for 14 mos to help whose with COVID as I had the antibodies. What specifically did you do? You speak in grandiose views but they are irrelevant. My skills were there due to genetics yes but also through hard work, perseverance and determination. I am not sure where you’re going with this but again you’re long winded and don’t have a point. What specifically is your point? Can you make it relevantly and concisely?

Sorry I am long winded, but attempting to concisely define the political philosophy of the world's most preeminent political philosopher is a bit daunting.

Justice Course – Harvard Justice

justiceharvard.org

Take the course, it is free, and millions of people have taken it. He is really "huge" in China. Without a doubt, he is the most engaging professor I have ever been associated with. I would really be interested in how you answer the trolley car question from his first lecture. But I will give it a shot.

The circumstances of your birth, from your birth order to the genetics you were gifted, have nothing to do with YOU. Rather or not society itself places value on those circumstances, has nothing to do with YOU. So you have a debt, a debt to providence, a debt to society, for those "gifts".

One of the best parts of Sandel's lectures happens in about lecture four. Here he is, at Harvard University, in a class with hundreds of students, and he asked everyone that is a first born child to raise their hands. At least three fourths of that class raise their hands. First borns have an advantage, and you can see it in the eyes of the students as they suddenly realize that reality as they look around and notice all the others raising their hands. They had nothing to do with that, and here they are, at a world class institution, and part of that might not have been through their own hard work but through the circumstances of their birth.

But you asked about me. Well I live in the South Mountain area of North Carolina on land that my family has owned since before the American Revolution. In fact, like most people around me, it was a King's Grant. While my grandfather might have been raised dirt poor as a migrant farm worker, my other grandfather was given a Cadillac at 16 and his father owned thousand of acres of, what is now, prime Blue Ridge mountain real estate. That is the source of the King's grant. The truth is, I never had to strike a damn lick. I could have sat back and waited to get my inheritance, except for one thing. It don't work that way with my family. That goes back to the migrant farm worker. While other family members did just that, sat back and waited, Dad made sure that you "earned" that inheritance. He might have not taken Sandel's course, but he understood the concept. Those that waited ended up with nothing. Those that used their talents to improve society were gifted that land. I have six kids, a couple doctors, one medical, the other material science, a philosophy major LOL, and a health management major. The one without a degree makes six figures as a real estate agent, go figure.

Me, I understand explicitly the gifts that God has granted me. I understand that I, in no way, deserve those gifts. And I give back, actually more than I keep for myself. Because in the end, what we have accomplished means nothing, but what we leave behind is the only legacy we have.

OMG…that is concise to you? So let’s call a spade a spade. Are you a Darwinist? Yes or no? Harvard doesn’t impress me. I went to Duke. What we accomplish doesn’t mean anything? Hmmm…I disagree. You also have zero proof of God. How primitive.

Six figures also isn’t overly impressive anymore. I live in Brookline, MA. Tough to get by on under $500k per annum AGI.

 

[Colin norris]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Honestly, who cares what she thinks. If she could open her mouth instead of speaking through her teeth she might have something to say.
If you think she is presidential material, you're as desperate as you were when you elected trump.

she is certainly a lot better than the O I (Other Indian)

In your opinion but KH is the VP. Haley is just another trump appointed bimbo.

why do dems always view women as bimbos? why are you so sexist?

It's not sexism. It's a fact. Take a glance at all the women around close to trump.
Not one fat black woman in sight.

If I'm criticised for observing that, I'll wear that like a badge of honour.

Seriously? How many fat black women play in the WNBA? You’re a foreigner to boot. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Who cares? The fact is trumps minders were all handpicked for their eye candy and you know it. Now you guys are salivating promoting them as presidential material. Give me strength.

Imagine ivanka as president and those salacious videos of her in the bath being circulated during the campaign. If you don't believe it research it.

So, this thread is about promoting Haley as a potential candidate and you know it.

the fact you can’t look beyond a woman’s looks highlights you are a sexist. the racism is because you only think fat black women aren’t

Your problem is you're not smart enough to notice it. You were overwhelmed by trump and dancing and gloating. Loved watching them on tv and it didn't occur to you they were eye candy to attract derelict old weavers like you.
Welcome to the Republican spin party. Sucked in baby.

You calling someone else “not smart enough” is ironic.

You've all come out in force and blasted me but none of you have proven me wrong. Try that, then we'll discuss irony.

how are we suppose to prove your bigoted sexist opinion of women wrong? it’s just your ignorant opinion

It's nothing to do with women in general. Trump adores being surrounded by attractive women. There's photos of him everywhere doing it. You can't deny that.
Why would he change that on becoming president?

The problem is you didn't pick up on it now your calling me a misogynist because I did. Brilliant dumbass

 

[Winston]

Sorry that I am long winded, but attempting to concisely

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

Who is we? I told you, I pay taxes and give to charity. Hell I donated my own blood for 14 mos to help whose with COVID as I had the antibodies. What specifically did you do? You speak in grandiose views but they are irrelevant. My skills were there due to genetics yes but also through hard work, perseverance and determination. I am not sure where you’re going with this but again you’re long winded and don’t have a point. What specifically is your point? Can you make it relevantly and concisely?

Sorry I am long winded, but attempting to concisely define the political philosophy of the world's most preeminent political philosopher is a bit daunting.

Justice Course – Harvard Justice

justiceharvard.org

Take the course, it is free, and millions of people have taken it. He is really "huge" in China. Without a doubt, he is the most engaging professor I have ever been associated with. I would really be interested in how you answer the trolley car question from his first lecture. But I will give it a shot.

The circumstances of your birth, from your birth order to the genetics you were gifted, have nothing to do with YOU. Rather or not society itself places value on those circumstances, has nothing to do with YOU. So you have a debt, a debt to providence, a debt to society, for those "gifts".

One of the best parts of Sandel's lectures happens in about lecture four. Here he is, at Harvard University, in a class with hundreds of students, and he asked everyone that is a first born child to raise their hands. At least three fourths of that class raise their hands. First borns have an advantage, and you can see it in the eyes of the students as they suddenly realize that reality as they look around and notice all the others raising their hands. They had nothing to do with that, and here they are, at a world class institution, and part of that might not have been through their own hard work but through the circumstances of their birth.

But you asked about me. Well I live in the South Mountain area of North Carolina on land that my family has owned since before the American Revolution. In fact, like most people around me, it was a King's Grant. While my grandfather might have been raised dirt poor as a migrant farm worker, my other grandfather was given a Cadillac at 16 and his father owned thousand of acres of, what is now, prime Blue Ridge mountain real estate. That is the source of the King's grant. The truth is, I never had to strike a damn lick. I could have sat back and waited to get my inheritance, except for one thing. It don't work that way with my family. That goes back to the migrant farm worker. While other family members did just that, sat back and waited, Dad made sure that you "earned" that inheritance. He might have not taken Sandel's course, but he understood the concept. Those that waited ended up with nothing. Those that used their talents to improve society were gifted that land. I have six kids, a couple doctors, one medical, the other material science, a philosophy major LOL, and a health management major. The one without a degree makes six figures as a real estate agent, go figure.

Me, I understand explicitly the gifts that God has granted me. I understand that I, in no way, deserve those gifts. And I give back, actually more than I keep for myself. Because in the end, what we have accomplished means nothing, but what we leave behind is the only legacy we have.

OMG…that is concise to you? So let’s call a spade a spade. Are you a Darwinist? Yes or no? Harvard doesn’t impress me. I went to Duke. What we accomplish doesn’t mean anything? Hmmm…I disagree. You also have zero proof of God. How primitive.

Six figures also isn’t overly impressive anymore. I live in Brookline, MA. Tough to get by on under $500k per annum AGI.

OMG, Duke? I went to Carolina homeboy. You went to the University of North Carolina--New Jersey. Duke is a bunch of elitist pricks. Duke actively recruited my ass, I was ranked top ten in the nation in High School debate. Why the hell would I want to go to a school with a bunch of privileged yankees when the business school at a public university was higher ranked? English department, which I hold a minor in, was top five in the country. Hell, I studied under a Nobel prize winner and a Pulitzer. Sure would not have got that at University of North Carolina-New Jersey. Damn, but you just revealed the biggest problem right there. And yeah, impressed or not, you need to take that course. You are a damn Dookie. They coddle your ass and tell you that you deserve your privilege. I mean wow, you just revealed so much.

 

[struth]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

Honestly, who cares what she thinks. If she could open her mouth instead of speaking through her teeth she might have something to say.
If you think she is presidential material, you're as desperate as you were when you elected trump.

she is certainly a lot better than the O I (Other Indian)

In your opinion but KH is the VP. Haley is just another trump appointed bimbo.

why do dems always view women as bimbos? why are you so sexist?

It's not sexism. It's a fact. Take a glance at all the women around close to trump.
Not one fat black woman in sight.

If I'm criticised for observing that, I'll wear that like a badge of honour.

Seriously? How many fat black women play in the WNBA? You’re a foreigner to boot. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Who cares? The fact is trumps minders were all handpicked for their eye candy and you know it. Now you guys are salivating promoting them as presidential material. Give me strength.

Imagine ivanka as president and those salacious videos of her in the bath being circulated during the campaign. If you don't believe it research it.

So, this thread is about promoting Haley as a potential candidate and you know it.

the fact you can’t look beyond a woman’s looks highlights you are a sexist. the racism is because you only think fat black women aren’t

Your problem is you're not smart enough to notice it. You were overwhelmed by trump and dancing and gloating. Loved watching them on tv and it didn't occur to you they were eye candy to attract derelict old weavers like you.
Welcome to the Republican spin party. Sucked in baby.

You calling someone else “not smart enough” is ironic.

You've all come out in force and blasted me but none of you have proven me wrong. Try that, then we'll discuss irony.

how are we suppose to prove your bigoted sexist opinion of women wrong? it’s just your ignorant opinion

It's nothing to do with women in general. Trump adores being surrounded by attractive women. There's photos of him everywhere doing it. You can't deny that.
Why would he change that on becoming president?

The problem is you didn't pick up on it now your calling me a misogynist because I did. Brilliant dumbass

Ah it’s just pretty women you automatically think are bimbos...back tracking some from only fat black women aren’t...but nonetheless sexist

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Sorry that I am long winded, but attempting to concisely

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

I will take Haley on. First, equity. She is mischaracterizing the movement. It is not about equity of outcome, nor is it about equity of opportunity. Neither is either possible or desirable. Her even discussing equity of opportunity reveals her lack of knowledge. Everyone is born with specific talents and traits, we are not all created equal. Some people are blessed with high intelligence. Some are born with strong healthy genes and natural immunity to many diseases. Some are born into wealth. Hell, even birth order has a significant impact on "equality of opportunity". Haley was born into relative wealth and was the oldest, the fact that she doesn't acknowledge or recognize those advantages speaks to her ignorance of the issue. The core concept of the equality movement is rewarding the successful, but also improving the lives of the disadvantaged. In the past our progressive tax system, higher corporate taxes, went a long way in delivering, not equality of outcome or opportunity, but making things "fair". Over the past four decades that system has been dismantled to the point that, today, there is very little "improving the lives of the less fortunate" going on. Our system should be created behind a "veil of ignorance", instead of what we have today, a system created by the elite, for the elite.

When Haley speaks of our daughter what she is really saying is that she knows her daughter is born with advantages, and instead of acknowledging that reality, and perhaps taking some of the rewards of those advantages to improve the lives of those less advantaged, she instead wants her daughter to be able to keep most of those rewards and build a "fortress" around her wealth while watching the calamity of the poor, their poverty, increase. That is about as unAmerican as it gets.

What wealth?

Her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. She was far from "disadvantaged".

And? She was a middle class American? Is that evil these days?

Upper middle class, and no, that is not evil, or even a problem. The problem is Haley wants to play off her "minority" status, and she acts as if any minority has an "equal opportunity" like she did. She knows it is not true, I mean she sure as hell not going to move to Columbia and enroll her daughter in an inner city school, yet she wants to pretend those students at that inner city school have the same "opportunities" as she did. It is insulting. And to make matters worse, she actually believes she is entitled to all that she has gained from those advantages, like the family she was born in to or the intelligence she was born with.

And Shapiro is even worse. I mean that pompous ass really believes he actually deserves all the opportunities and success he has had. That he owes nothing back to a society that just happens to value the traits he possesses. What he fails to realize is that if he was born a 100,000 years ago, in a hunter gatherer society, if those "humans" believed as he believed, well his ass would have been left to starve to death.



I mean I hate to go all Skynard on you, but if you have never been down in the ghetto, never felt that cold wind blow, then you know nothing. People like Haley, Shapiro, should be rounded up, dropped down into some trailer park where the rent is due every Friday, with no money, and then left for a year. Bet they come out with a changed attitude.

Wrong. She said she doesn’t want her daughter labeled. Your last paragraph is at best disturbing. Those people if they are in that situation should try to improve it and not blame me or others for it.

I think you are missing the point. Haley actually believes that she deserves all the opportunities she has had. Kind of like that thing about building. She believes she achieved her success all on her own. And worse, she believes everyone has "equal opportunity". That is naive at best, total ignorance at worse. But then again, maybe she doesn't really believe it. She knows she was given certain advantages, like birth order, intelligence, and economic status. But she feels entitled to them and she works to protect them and pass them on.

And I reread my post. I never said that those living in poverty should blame anyone. What I did say is that those of us that were born with certain advantages should understand that we did nothing to earn those advantages, and that we owe back to the society that actually values those advantages.

My grandfather was about five foot nothing, but tougher than nails and meaner than a snake. He grew up a migrant farm worker with 16 brothers and sisters. He build a farm, and raised a family where all the children became quite successful. Standing in the receiving line at his funeral, beside my father. Hundreds of people, working class, mostly dirt poor. Dad turned to me and said, "You see all these people, they are the salt of the earth, don't you ever forget that". Haley, Shapiro, nobody ever told them that. By believing they deserve all that mere circumstance provided them, they in no small way believe they are better than those that were not so fortunate. And the core problem with this country, which Trump exemplifies, is that there are literally millions of those fortunate individuals that feel the same way. Skynard had it right, and sorry I could not post Ronnie singing the song, because he knew it better than anyone.

Why are you so long winded. You do not know what she believes and we all have certain advantages and disadvantages. What is your point? Address this question. Don’t deflect.

My point is simple. Everyone in this country is not equal. Some are born smarter than others. Some are born into families with more resources than others. Some are born with more opportunities than others. And those that are owe a debt to society that should be paid. For instance, maybe you were born with great math abilities, and you become a successful engineer, maybe even an engineer scientist. But you are frail, and tiny, and couldn't hunt for shit. Don't you owe something to a society that values what you were gifted with? Because, let's be honest, were you born a hundred thousand years ago your ass would be dependent on the strong, powerful, hunters. And your skills would be worthless.

I mean I am spouting Michael Sandel from Harvard university, but he is as spot on as Ronnie Van Zant.

How Darwinist of you. Engineering skills would have been valuable then too as they were in Ancient Rome. I owe my family, that is it. The rest of my “debt” I pay via taxes and charitable contributions both in terms of time and money.

Ancient Rome was about 2,000 years ago, not 100,000 years ago. What evolution did do was cultivate humans that showed empathy and cooperation. We know, from archeology and anthropology, that even cavemen took care of those that were disabled. Group hunting cultivated cooperation. Your statement, "I owe my family, that is it" clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding as to, what Sandel describes, a debt to a society that places value on your particular skill.

The other concept of Sandel's, that you fail to understand, is the "veil of ignorance". We should structure society through that veil of ignorance, not knowing rather we would be born into privilege or poverty, born strong or weak, born in a developed nation or sub-sahara Africa. A society structured with that method is going to provide benefits to those with the least, funded by those with the most. The "fairness" revolves around that debt to society. Instead, you, and most Republicans, are content with a society that is structured to benefit YOU, and the circumstances like which womb you climbed out of, where that womb was located, and the skills you were endowed with, which you had absolutely nothing to do with, are somehow deserved by you. And forgive me if I am wrong, but that certainly applies to both Haley and Shapiro, and that is the subject of this thread.

Who is we? I told you, I pay taxes and give to charity. Hell I donated my own blood for 14 mos to help whose with COVID as I had the antibodies. What specifically did you do? You speak in grandiose views but they are irrelevant. My skills were there due to genetics yes but also through hard work, perseverance and determination. I am not sure where you’re going with this but again you’re long winded and don’t have a point. What specifically is your point? Can you make it relevantly and concisely?

Sorry I am long winded, but attempting to concisely define the political philosophy of the world's most preeminent political philosopher is a bit daunting.

Justice Course – Harvard Justice

justiceharvard.org

Take the course, it is free, and millions of people have taken it. He is really "huge" in China. Without a doubt, he is the most engaging professor I have ever been associated with. I would really be interested in how you answer the trolley car question from his first lecture. But I will give it a shot.

The circumstances of your birth, from your birth order to the genetics you were gifted, have nothing to do with YOU. Rather or not society itself places value on those circumstances, has nothing to do with YOU. So you have a debt, a debt to providence, a debt to society, for those "gifts".

One of the best parts of Sandel's lectures happens in about lecture four. Here he is, at Harvard University, in a class with hundreds of students, and he asked everyone that is a first born child to raise their hands. At least three fourths of that class raise their hands. First borns have an advantage, and you can see it in the eyes of the students as they suddenly realize that reality as they look around and notice all the others raising their hands. They had nothing to do with that, and here they are, at a world class institution, and part of that might not have been through their own hard work but through the circumstances of their birth.

But you asked about me. Well I live in the South Mountain area of North Carolina on land that my family has owned since before the American Revolution. In fact, like most people around me, it was a King's Grant. While my grandfather might have been raised dirt poor as a migrant farm worker, my other grandfather was given a Cadillac at 16 and his father owned thousand of acres of, what is now, prime Blue Ridge mountain real estate. That is the source of the King's grant. The truth is, I never had to strike a damn lick. I could have sat back and waited to get my inheritance, except for one thing. It don't work that way with my family. That goes back to the migrant farm worker. While other family members did just that, sat back and waited, Dad made sure that you "earned" that inheritance. He might have not taken Sandel's course, but he understood the concept. Those that waited ended up with nothing. Those that used their talents to improve society were gifted that land. I have six kids, a couple doctors, one medical, the other material science, a philosophy major LOL, and a health management major. The one without a degree makes six figures as a real estate agent, go figure.

Me, I understand explicitly the gifts that God has granted me. I understand that I, in no way, deserve those gifts. And I give back, actually more than I keep for myself. Because in the end, what we have accomplished means nothing, but what we leave behind is the only legacy we have.

OMG…that is concise to you? So let’s call a spade a spade. Are you a Darwinist? Yes or no? Harvard doesn’t impress me. I went to Duke. What we accomplish doesn’t mean anything? Hmmm…I disagree. You also have zero proof of God. How primitive.

Six figures also isn’t overly impressive anymore. I live in Brookline, MA. Tough to get by on under $500k per annum AGI.

OMG, Duke? I went to Carolina homeboy. You went to the University of North Carolina--New Jersey. Duke is a bunch of elitist pricks. Duke actively recruited my ass, I was ranked top ten in the nation in High School debate. Why the hell would I want to go to a school with a bunch of privileged yankees when the business school at a public university was higher ranked? English department, which I hold a minor in, was top five in the country. Hell, I studied under a Nobel prize winner and a Pulitzer. Sure would not have got that at University of North Carolina-New Jersey. Damn, but you just revealed the biggest problem right there. And yeah, impressed or not, you need to take that course. You are a damn Dookie. They coddle your ass and tell you that you deserve your privilege. I mean wow, you just revealed so much.

Way to broad brush. Don’t hate because we smoked everyone in basketball while still being smarter and better looking than you…

 

[otto105]

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since many don't have the attention span:

1. China is using the Left's rhetoric against us -- How can we be the moral compass of the world when our President states we are a systemically racist nation
2. Leftists are telling people just because they are minorities they start with one arm tied behind their back. This is not only a lie but very dehumanizing. Nikki Haley is a minority btw.
3. China is surpassing us in military strength, specifically the Navy.
4. Biden's border policies are abhorrent.
5. We had to pass a Bill to test illegals coming over the border for COVD-19.

I recommend you listen.

Thank you,

How does nikki know this? Is she in an official position?

I am guessing she has some connections in Washington. What do you think? LOL

I’m thinking that even a lowland orc would know that Nikki is dumbing her message to increase her electability with knuckle dragging maga fuckups

You’re thinking? Since when? Did you listen to the audio? Show me specifically where she does that.

Dude, your listed talking points attributed to her are dumb. Everything about this thread is dumb.

It's a knuckle dragging maga fuckup dumb thread.

And everyone who has been posting in it is dumber by have been subjected to it