China Fears North Korea US Conflict At Any Moment

[toomuchtime_]

We are not going to voluntarily initiate taking out Seoul.

I think you meant Pyongyang, the capitol of N Korea.

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

 

[bendog]

We are not going to voluntarily initiate taking out Seoul.

I think you meant Pyongyang, the capitol of N Korea.

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

NK has over a thousand artillery barrels dialed in on Seoul. The US probably can destroy NK's nuclear capability, but that does not insure a nuke doesn't get to Seoul either.

There's no way NK can prevail if SK and the US decide to have a go. But NK can make it very costly in terms of civilian loses. Presumably, that is the rational reason for NK to want nukes. When they start getting to having ICBMS that target the US .... that's another issue. And that may be the message Trump delivered to China, with this time making them think we really mean it. If so, Trump did good. But, we'll see.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

We are not going to voluntarily initiate taking out Seoul.

I think you meant Pyongyang, the capitol of N Korea.

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

NK has over a thousand artillery barrels dialed in on Seoul. The US probably can destroy NK's nuclear capability, but that does not insure a nuke doesn't get to Seoul either.

There's no way NK can prevail if SK and the US decide to have a go. But NK can make it very costly in terms of civilian loses. Presumably, that is the rational reason for NK to want nukes. When they start getting to having ICBMS that target the US .... that's another issue. And that may be the message Trump delivered to China, with this time making them think we really mean it. If so, Trump did good. But, we'll see.

I think their Nuclear facilities are underneath Mountains ...in any case A Nuke strike next door to China is a dicey thing ...

 

[Hum Dinger]

This is not Trump's show.

For the most part, Kim has gotten plenty of "attention" from the world community.

China has certainly been supporting them.


This IS China's responsibility because they have the most leverage over North Korea, by far.

That China is not directly threatened does not change the fact that this is primarily their show.

CHina has had DECADES to stop supporting a dangerous loose cannon like North Korea.


To blame this situation on a guy that just showed up is complete bullshit.


Are the Chinese leaders children to allow some harsh language to prevent them from dealing with a nuclear danger with responsibility and maturity?

Simply because China has leverage over North Korea does not make it their responsible to settle disputes between the US and North Korea. China and the US have no mutual defense agreements. We don't even have any trade agreements. The only entity that has a responsibility to settle disagreements between nations is the UN and Trump has not bothered to involve them.

Until Trump decided on unilateral actions against North Korea, China was a currency manipulator raping the United States, a state sponsor of cyber hacking, and a villain.

WTF? The UN has been doing NOTHING and it was there long before Trump. NK insists it is actively working on weapons to use against us as soon as possible. What has the UN done about NK? If they had gotten off their asses and done the job they were created to do, we wouldn't be in this mess! The UN is much too busy obsessing over Israel.

For the UN to intercede there has to be active support from it's members. Is Trump addressing the UN, No. Is Trump building a coalition of nations, No. Instead of building consensus, he's sending Pence and a naval task group to Korea and telling the world he'll act alone.

The sad fact is he probably has no other choice. He's made enemies out of China and Russia who hold two permanent seats on the Security Council and the only two countries that has any chance of influencing N.K.

The US had tried diplomacy for decades through several administrations. It fails every time because NK intends to strike the US as soon as it is possible. They have been very clear about their aims.

When someone shows you who he is, believe him.

The idea that we are rushing into something is ridiculous. Decades of negotiations and agreements have all been broken by NK. How exactly is that rushing?

Regarding the UN, the only entity responsible for handling this mess, they don't care. They aren't interested as you admit. Their only interest is bitching about Israel. Meanwhile, NK is still actively progressing in their mission to attack us. So, it is up to China or us.

We do not negotiate with North Korea. We do not have diplomatic relations with them and we don't recognize their sovereignty.

We should be using every once of our diplomacy to further isolate NK. The country has essential no oil production and produces less than half the coal they need. They also only produce about 2/3 of the grain they need. They need hard currency which they get from exports. Their major trading partners are China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Iran, and the Republic of the Congo. If Trump is such a great deal maker, this is where he should concentrate his efforts.

The US should be working through the UN to continue tighten sanctions and getting tough on countries that are breaking those sanction. Secondly, we need to be working through the UN to form a military coalition. It may not be needed, but it needs to be there.

Of course the biggest problem is China and Russia, NK's top allies. Our relations with China are problematical at best after a year of condemnation by Trump. According to Trump our relations with Russia are at an all time low after recent events in Syria.

Regardless of the long standing ties between China & NK, China's current economic relationship with the U.S. is far more important to them than their relationship with NK.

Whatever wingnuts may say about Obama, he put the screws to Russia and has set Trump up to negotiate with Russia from a VERY strong position. If we need Russia's cooperation in dealing with NK, Trump has more than a few cards in his hand.

Our issues with NK are of direct security concern for the U.S. Our issues with Russia are secondary. Trump should be able to negotiate Russia's cooperation without a problem.

In the end, NK leadership has put far too much emphasis on the importance of their nuclear program to the NK people. They will not be able to back down.

This leaves only a few possibilities:

1. War between NK & the U.S. China would possibly invade NK to prevent a total U.S. takeover and Korean reunification.
2. China forcing them to back down...possibly going to war with them.
3. Trump backing down and losing face. That will create the political atmosphere for impeachment.
4. Trump's spinning a state of continued pressure on NK, while NK continues to develop nukes, as a victory. Nothing really changes.

 

[Hum Dinger]

I have to wonder what NK would do if SK ordered a mass evacuation of Seoul.

Would they have the balls to shoot first?

 

[toomuchtime_]

We are not going to voluntarily initiate taking out Seoul.

I think you meant Pyongyang, the capitol of N Korea.

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

NK has over a thousand artillery barrels dialed in on Seoul. The US probably can destroy NK's nuclear capability, but that does not insure a nuke doesn't get to Seoul either.

There's no way NK can prevail if SK and the US decide to have a go. But NK can make it very costly in terms of civilian loses. Presumably, that is the rational reason for NK to want nukes. When they start getting to having ICBMS that target the US .... that's another issue. And that may be the message Trump delivered to China, with this time making them think we really mean it. If so, Trump did good. But, we'll see.

Not only could NK have no chance of prevailing in such a war, but its leadership could not survive. For a very brief period of time, NK could inflict heavy damage on the South, but its entire military infrastructure would be quickly destroyed and then they would be effectively just groups of lightly armed militia, no longer much of a threat to anyone but their own population. The North is faced with two options, the humiliation of giving up its nuclear program or utter destruction. In the 1990's faced with a similar choice, the North agreed to give up its nuclear program but didn't live up to its word, and I am certain it will make that choice again, however if the leadership chose utter destruction it certainly must be prevented from having nuclear weapons whatever the cost.

 

[bendog]

I think you meant Pyongyang, the capitol of N Korea.

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

NK has over a thousand artillery barrels dialed in on Seoul. The US probably can destroy NK's nuclear capability, but that does not insure a nuke doesn't get to Seoul either.

There's no way NK can prevail if SK and the US decide to have a go. But NK can make it very costly in terms of civilian loses. Presumably, that is the rational reason for NK to want nukes. When they start getting to having ICBMS that target the US .... that's another issue. And that may be the message Trump delivered to China, with this time making them think we really mean it. If so, Trump did good. But, we'll see.

Not only could NK have no chance of prevailing in such a war, but its leadership could not survive. For a very brief period of time, NK could inflict heavy damage on the South, but its entire military infrastructure would be quickly destroyed and then they would be effectively just groups of lightly armed militia, no longer much of a threat to anyone but their own population. The North is faced with two options, the humiliation of giving up its nuclear program or utter destruction. In the 1990's faced with a similar choice, the North agreed to give up its nuclear program but didn't live up to its word, and I am certain it will make that choice again, however if the leadership chose utter destruction it certainly must be prevented from having nuclear weapons whatever the cost.

NK already has nukes. And SK apparently can live with that. We are not going to launch a preemptive nuclear strike on anybody.

 

[toomuchtime_]

lol That would make more sense, unless Bendog is really a NK agent . . . .

Or unless you dopes don't realize that he meant there would be massive retaliation on Seoul if we were to attack NK.

Not necessarily. The US response to that would likely be to destroy NK's whole military infrastructure, and if you recall, during the campaign President Trump was clear he would use nuclear weapons if he believed they were called for. The retaliation from NK would likely be below the threshold that would trigger a massive US response.

NK has over a thousand artillery barrels dialed in on Seoul. The US probably can destroy NK's nuclear capability, but that does not insure a nuke doesn't get to Seoul either.

There's no way NK can prevail if SK and the US decide to have a go. But NK can make it very costly in terms of civilian loses. Presumably, that is the rational reason for NK to want nukes. When they start getting to having ICBMS that target the US .... that's another issue. And that may be the message Trump delivered to China, with this time making them think we really mean it. If so, Trump did good. But, we'll see.

Not only could NK have no chance of prevailing in such a war, but its leadership could not survive. For a very brief period of time, NK could inflict heavy damage on the South, but its entire military infrastructure would be quickly destroyed and then they would be effectively just groups of lightly armed militia, no longer much of a threat to anyone but their own population. The North is faced with two options, the humiliation of giving up its nuclear program or utter destruction. In the 1990's faced with a similar choice, the North agreed to give up its nuclear program but didn't live up to its word, and I am certain it will make that choice again, however if the leadership chose utter destruction it certainly must be prevented from having nuclear weapons whatever the cost.

NK already has nukes. And SK apparently can live with that. We are not going to launch a preemptive nuclear strike on anybody.

There is no evidence NK has deliverable nukes and so it is not clear anyone can live with a nuclear armed NK.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is no evidence NK has deliverable nukes and so it is not clear anyone can live with a nuclear armed NK.

Sure there is as a SCUD can handle a regular nuke and NK has plenty of them.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There is no evidence NK has deliverable nukes and so it is not clear anyone can live with a nuclear armed NK.

Sure there is as a SCUD can handle a regular nuke and NK has plenty of them.

minaturizing a nuke to fit into the nose cone of a missile presents significant challenges and it is not clear NK has mastered those challenges.

 

[bendog]

What happens on the Korean peninsula is up to SK .... and Japan. And the US does not launch preemptive nuclear attacks ... or conventional attacks for that matter without telegraphing it long in advance.

 

[usmbguest5318]

As goes the risk of physical conflict happeing between the U.S. and N. Korea, so long as the DPRK "don't start none, there won't be none."

 

[Syriusly]

IF hostilities erupt in that region again, literally ANYTHING could happen.

EG. In the madness of the situation China might even decide to just take revenge on Japan, China has unfinished business with Japan, the Japanese for decades have feared China for this reason. The Chinese have neither forgotten nor forgiven things that the Japanese did during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) such as The Nanjing Massacre for instance.

Date December 13, 1937 – January 1938

Location Nanjing, China

Result

• 50,000–300,000 dead (primary sources)
• 40,000–300,000 dead (scholarly consensus)
• 300,000 dead (Chinese government, scholarly consensus in China)

Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia

Decaf

There are some things too terrible to joke about.

China is not going to attack Japan because NK is being a pain in the ass again.

I never said that, if you reread my post, I said IF hostilities erupt in that region again ANYTHING could happen in the madness of the situation and in that madness China could exact revenge on Japan.

The situation as it stands now and within the next few weeks, China are going to intervene in a non-military sense to bring North Korea under control.

Interesting take on that.

I'm sure there's some in east China that feel that way.

I read about and it made me mad.

The Japanese of today are not those people.

If China tries to reciprocate, the US has to back Japan up.

wat? how did this happen?

China was never enemy, Japan was..
Now we has to back Japan.

Is that right?

Is it right that the United States stand by our allies?
Is it right for the United States to follow through our Treaty committments?

 

[yiostheoy]

Fat boy Kim in N.Korea fired off a couple of missiles that did not work, but did not detonate another nuclear test.

The fat boy must have figured that another nuclear detonation would push DJ Trump too far.

So far tensions are still high as the world waits to see what Fat boy Kim does next in his chess game with the rest of the world.

What it looks like is that China is selling or loaning him ICBMs.

It would be funny if fat boy Kim launches them against China at some point.

A borderline personality disordered person like the fat boy imagines offenses then attacks others because of them.

China is playing with fire all because of their burned out enthusiasm with Communism.

 

[yiostheoy]

As goes the risk of physical conflict happeing between the U.S. and N. Korea, so long as the DPRK "don't start none, there won't be none."

Fat boy Kim in N.Korea has got to be playing his chess game in his head to try and see what his next moves are going to be.

He has already been certified as wacko by the CIA.

So the next move may not be rational.

One thing Kim can be sure of is that DJ Trump will not ignore him like BHO and W and WJ Clinton did.

 

[yiostheoy]

I have to wonder what NK would do if SK ordered a mass evacuation of Seoul.

Would they have the balls to shoot first?

S.Korea cannot evacuate Seoul.

That would be like the USA trying to evacuate NYC.

More likely is that the S.Koreans have mobilized their armed forces and stationed them across the DMZ.

THEN if fat boy Kim in N.Korea bombards Seoul with arty the South will invade the North in reprisal and the Korean War will resume again exactly where it left off back in 1953.

 

[yiostheoy]

The worst case scenario is that after S. and N. Korea resume their War after all these years (64 years) that China will then also get involved forcing the USA to get involved too.

Last time the USA and China fought in Korea the Chinese did not have any nukes.

This time they do.

Last time the Chinese forces on the ground in Korea beat the USA and pushed them back to the DMZ line.

Same thing would probably happen again.

The USA cannot beat nor even stop a Chinese army on the ground.

 

[Hum Dinger]

I have to wonder what NK would do if SK ordered a mass evacuation of Seoul.

Would they have the balls to shoot first?

S.Korea cannot evacuate Seoul.

That would be like the USA trying to evacuate NYC.

More likely is that the S.Koreans have mobilized their armed forces and stationed them across the DMZ.

THEN if fat boy Kim in N.Korea bombards Seoul with arty the South will invade the North in reprisal and the Korean War will resume again exactly where it left off back in 1953.

I'm sure that there are plans for evacuating NYC as well as Seoul. I don't know how realistic those plans are, but I'm sure that there are plans.

 

[Unkotare]

Fat boy Kim in N.Korea fired off a couple of missiles that did not work, but did not detonate another nuclear test.

The fat boy must have figured that another nuclear detonation would push DJ Trump too far.

So far tensions are still high as the world waits to see what Fat boy Kim does next in his chess game with the rest of the world.

What it looks like is that China is selling or loaning him ICBMs.

It would be funny if fat boy Kim launches them against China at some point.

A borderline personality disordered person like the fat boy imagines offenses then attacks others because of them.

China is playing with fire all because of their burned out enthusiasm with Communism.

How do you come by these conclusions?