Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Osomir]

Funny how you keeping having to go to Sub-Saharan Africa (many of which are Muslim countries), to cite societies more abusive and chauvinistic towards women, or on par with, Muslim societies.

How is that funny? I work primarily in Sub-Saharan Africa so it is the region that I know the best; it is also an obvious region to work in for people working in gender issues. Vital Voices for example does a lot of work there.

 

[Osomir]

You said you worked at the State Dept. John Forbes Kerry works there too. When you see him, say 'ol Hoss sez 'Hey'. Simple.

The Secretary of State works on the 7th floor primarily (of the Truman building), the workers of individual bureaus report to Assistant Secretaries (A/S) or Principle Deputy Assistant Secretaries (PDAS), or Deputy Assistant Secretaries (DAS). Meeting the actual Secretary of State is fairly rare.

 

[Roudy]

That's interesting, how it changes based on what you adjust for. A lot of those countries are also in conflict or with weak central government which would make it hard to effect much change.

Indeed, which is why I made such a big deal out of weak governmental institutions. Roudy and Hoss seem to be of the impression that Islamic countries are the only countries with customary law that operates outside of formal law but it is pretty common across countries regardless of their dominant religion. An example: Women in rural Malawi aren't allowed to own land under customary law even though such ownership is guaranteed under central Malawian law. Nor are they allowed to plow fields (they have to pay men to do it) and Malawi is far from an Islamic country (it used to be ruled as a Puritan state).

It is a pretty common occurrence all over Sub-Saharan Africa where countries experience weaker governance. Mali, Niger, Chad, Sudan, South Sudan, the DR Congo, the C.A.R, etc all have large swaths of land that rest largely outside of government control and thus customary law, however it is derived tends to rule, and none of it, tends to be fairly equitable with regards to the roles of men and women regardless of the dominant religion.

Yes, The more backwards, isolated, chaotic, and poor a society the more they will be chauvinistic, persecutive, and male dominated, and have these medieval traditions such as child brides. That goes without saying. You didn't need to write a paper on this I could have told you that myself. LOL

However, when Islam came into the picture, one of its functions was to create a whole new way of life and set of laws for Muslims to live under. Including the total emulation of Mohammad as "final messenger" and an example of the perfect creation of God for all Muslims to imitate. One of which, was that he married a nine year old.

The fact that you discredit this as the prevalent cause of persecution of women and therefore prevalence of child brides in Muslim societies means you deserve an F in your paper. You failed to mention other factors such as religion in Islamic societies, as an over-arching reason for deteriorated women's rights.

I guess you were just trying to be politically correct and give Islam a pass.

Like I said, lipstick on a pig.

 

[Osomir]

Yes, The more backwards, isolated, chaotic, and poor a society the more they will be chauvinistic, persecutive, and male dominated, and have these medieval traditions such as child brides. That goes without saying. You didn't need to write a paper on this I could have told you that myself.

Right, so I'm not sure why you would ignore those factors when it came to Muslim majority countries.

However, when Islam came into the picture, one of its functions was to create a whole new way of life and set of laws for Muslims to live under. Including the total emulation of Mohammad as "final messenger" and an example of the perfect creation of God for all Muslims to imitate. One of which, was that he married a nine year old.

There is nothing in any shariah code set that says that Muslims have to marry 9 year olds. Try again.

The fact that you discredit this as the prevalent cause of persecution of women and therefore prevalence of child brides in Muslim societies means you deserve an F in your paper.

lol says the guy who though that the Bukhari and Muslim hadith collections were part of the Quran. Tell us again about how Muhammad wrote them

It's actually quite amusing that you can say this with such confidence when you have demonstrated and admitted that you don't know much about Islamic law, or even theology.

 

[Roudy]

Funny how you keeping having to go to Sub-Saharan Africa (many of which are Muslim countries), to cite societies more abusive and chauvinistic towards women, or on par with, Muslim societies.

How is that funny? I work primarily in Sub-Saharan Africa so it is the region that I know the best; it is also an obvious region to work in for people working in gender issues. Vital Voices for example does a lot of work there.

It's funny because you have to go to tribal backwards ass societies in Africa, to find abuse of women similar Muslim societies.

And people wonder where the expression "Muslims want to take the world back to 7th century AD" comes from.

 

[Osomir]

It's funny because you have to go to tribal backwards ass societies in Africa, to find abuse of women similar Muslim societies.

lol where do you think most of your examples have come from there sport? You listed places like Guinea, Chad, Niger, etc. Guess what? They're in Africa.

 

[Coyote]

The thesis was a quantitative analysis on how much increases in women's rights impact economic variables across countries (as divided by sector of growth reliance). I didn't touch on religion no, but then again religion didn't really have anything to do with it. As a side note, some of the worst countries for women's rights aren't Islamic countries (some are) but many aren't. The middle East for example, tends to score higher than most of Sub-Saharan Africa.

Sudan, Congo, Chad and Afghanistan came up as the 4 worst for women's rights and of the ten worst was Guatamala, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Mali. Chad was the worst. And those countries are mixture of religions.

As I cited before in my Wikipedia link, the highest rate of child brides is among Muslim societies, which is attributed to Islam and Shariah law. It's in this thread, just go back and read it.

Also, most of the countries you listed are entirely Muslim, if not Muslim majority. Yet you called countries such as Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, "mixed religion".

LOL...talk about misrepresentation.

Yes, let's talk about misrepresentation. Those countries represent a mixture of religions and represent those judged to be the ten worst in the treatment of women and their rights - just look at the worst 5 (from better to worst which is Chad).

Guatamalia - Christian
Sudan - Muslim
D.R. Congo - Christian
Afghanistan - Muslim
Chad - Muslim and Christian majorities plus some animist

Now I agree more of the countries in those ten have significant Muslim majorities (6 out of ten) but not enough to simply write it off as religion because Muslim countries also figure in some of the better countries and non-Muslim countries figure in list of the worst.

When it comes to child brides - Africa has the worst record.

Some countries in Africa are amongst those with the highest proportion of early marriage, including Niger, Chad, Mali, Guinea, Central African Republic, Mozambique and Malawi. Sub-Saharan Africa has the second highest rate of early and forced marriage - See more at: Early and forced marriage - facts and figures - Plan UK

CAR is Christian, as is Mozambique and Malawi. Niger, Chad, Mali, and Guinea are Islamic majority. I agree that religion influences child marriages - in particular with it's influence on virginity - but focusing on that ignores the larger problem and the more pressing reasons behind child marriages. Many of those marriages are related to poverty: the parents need the bride price to feed, clothe, educate, and house the rest of the family, and the bride (who typically is not allowed to work and uneducated), goes into the husband's family, and is no longer a drain on family resources. The cultural foundations for those attitudes exist in all Abrahamic faiths as well as Hinduism so religion makes it easier to justify perpretrating these customs.

 

[Roudy]

Yes, The more backwards, isolated, chaotic, and poor a society the more they will be chauvinistic, persecutive, and male dominated, and have these medieval traditions such as child brides. That goes without saying. You didn't need to write a paper on this I could have told you that myself.

Right, so I'm not sure why you would ignore those factors when it came to Muslim majority countries.

However, when Islam came into the picture, one of its functions was to create a whole new way of life and set of laws for Muslims to live under. Including the total emulation of Mohammad as "final messenger" and an example of the perfect creation of God for all Muslims to imitate. One of which, was that he married a nine year old.

There is nothing in any shariah code set that says that Muslims have to marry 9 year olds. Try again.

The fact that you discredit this as the prevalent cause of persecution of women and therefore prevalence of child brides in Muslim societies means you deserve an F in your paper.

lol says the guy who though that the Bukhari and Muslim hadith collections were part of the Quran. Tell us again about how Muhammad wrote them

It's actually quite amusing that you can say this with such confidence when you have demonstrated and admitted that you don't know much about Islamic law, or even theology.

Shariah code gives a MAN, the father, of a child to marry her off at whatever age he pleases.

Neither the mother nor the child have any right or say according to Shariah law. In fact women have very little rights under Shariah law, when it comes to many things such as marriage, divorce, the courts, money, travel, etc. they are basically treated as the property of the men.

But then again, you already knew that, right? Or did you not mention that in your amazing thesis? LOL

 

[Uncensored2008]

Just your résumé is enough to see if you'll be hired. Don't be bashful.

My resume has too much personal information on it.

That's okay, you can leave off weight and cup size, since we are on the interwebz....

 

[Osomir]

It is also worth noting that data generally used for the Sudan is derived from data that came from time periods when the Sudan and South Sudan were one country and South Sudan is not primarily Islamic. They are primarily "animist" (a catchall phrase for indigenous beliefs) with influential Christian minorities. So the data stems from a mixed religious population.

 

[Roudy]

It's funny because you have to go to tribal backwards ass societies in Africa, to find abuse of women similar Muslim societies.

lol where do you think most of your examples have come from there sport? You listed places like Guinea, Chad, Niger, etc. Guess what? They're in Africa.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc are in Africa?

Anther F, this time in geography.

 

[Osomir]

Shariah code gives a MAN, the father, of a child to marry her off at whatever age he pleases.

Says the guy who has no idea how shariah code is formed. You don't even know what hadiths are. Do you even know how Shariah lawsets are made? You keep talking about it as if it were one singular code so I'm guessing that the answer is "no."

 

[Osomir]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc are in Africa?

Anther F, this time in geography.

Yemen is fairly close and is on a poverty scale relative to many African States, but the primary examples that you have utilized to push the line that the largest users of child marriage are Islamic states, primarily came from Africa there bud.

 

[Osomir]

Also, why doesn't Africa count? That's where a lot of child marriage takes place. That's where the highest prevalence rates of it take place (as a percentage of population). Why on earth would anyone who wants to take an honest look at the subject ignore the African continent? Simply because it doesn't fit into your bigoted picture? Pathetic.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, The more backwards, isolated, chaotic, and poor a society the more they will be chauvinistic, persecutive, and male dominated, and have these medieval traditions such as child brides. That goes without saying. You didn't need to write a paper on this I could have told you that myself.

Right, so I'm not sure why you would ignore those factors when it came to Muslim majority countries.



There is nothing in any shariah code set that says that Muslims have to marry 9 year olds. Try again.

The fact that you discredit this as the prevalent cause of persecution of women and therefore prevalence of child brides in Muslim societies means you deserve an F in your paper.

lol says the guy who though that the Bukhari and Muslim hadith collections were part of the Quran. Tell us again about how Muhammad wrote them

It's actually quite amusing that you can say this with such confidence when you have demonstrated and admitted that you don't know much about Islamic law, or even theology.

Shariah code gives a MAN, the father, of a child to marry her off at whatever age he pleases.

Neither the mother nor the child have any right or say according to Shariah law. In fact women have very little rights under Shariah law, when it comes to many things such as marriage, divorce, the courts, money, travel, etc. they are basically treated as the property of the men.

But then again, you already knew that, right? Or did you not mention that in your amazing thesis? LOL

It's not just "Shariah" - if you look at the countries with the worst record for women, it includes many non-Muslim countries, such as Guatamala and those African countries with Christian majorities. One of the things they have in common is conservative, traditional societies dominated by men and that is a mindset found in most of the dominant religions.

Traditional religions overall suck for women.

 

[Osomir]

I find it amusing how conveniently Roudy is willing to drop his reliance on Guinea, Niger, Chad, and Mali simply so that he can pretend to ignore the entire African continent. If nothing else, that is evidence in and of itself that he isn't really interested in the overarching issue of Child Marriage, and is just interested in justifying anti-Islamic bigotry.

 

[Hossfly]

BTW, next time you're up at State, tell JFK 'ol Hoss said Hey. I knew him in Viet Nam but he's out of my league now.

Not sure how that is supposed to be a comeback, but hey go you!

One thing I am very curious about. Since the U.S. is so busy working on counter-terrorism these days, why is such a poster with such "expertise" in counter terrorism doing on what is basically just a forum in which some (mainly retired) people participate and not busy at a desk in some counter terrorism unit helping the government. Seems mighty strange to me. How in the world will she pay off her student loans just diddling on some forum which in the real world has no importance? Maybe Miss Osomir will claim to be a GS 17 and has her underlings do all the work, giving her time to play around with forums.

 

[Hossfly]

You said you worked at the State Dept. John Forbes Kerry works there too. When you see him, say 'ol Hoss sez 'Hey'. Simple.

The Secretary of State works on the 7th floor primarily (of the Truman building), the workers of individual bureaus report to Assistant Secretaries (A/S) or Principle Deputy Assistant Secretaries (PDAS), or Deputy Assistant Secretaries (DAS). Meeting the actual Secretary of State is fairly rare.

Now are we supposed to believe that a woman who appears to have all the time in the world to post on some forum which is unknown to most of this country is actually an employee of the State Department? Miss Osomir is probably a clerk there and hides the fact from her bosses that she is fiddling around on a forum during working hours. Isn't it great to have a job like that? Or maybe Miss Osomir was let go because she was found fiddling around during working hours and is now collecting unemployment while looking for another job in her spare time (because the forums seem more important to her). Wow, I just finished up another heart transplant in record time. Kudos to me.

 

[Hossfly]

I find it amusing how conveniently Roudy is willing to drop his reliance on Guinea, Niger, Chad, and Mali simply so that he can pretend to ignore the entire African continent. If nothing else, that is evidence in and of itself that he isn't really interested in the overarching issue of Child Marriage, and is just interested in justifying anti-Islamic bigotry.

Let's put the Muslim population in the right perspective. www.pewforum.org/files/2009/10/Muslimpopulation.pdf

Meanwhile, why are you still blabbering about child marriages, Miss Osomir (especially since you are so hard at work at the State Department earning your salary). Your expertise should also cover honor killings so tell us where they are most prevalent. After all, there are young women being honor killed among the Muslim population for supposedly putting a stain on the family's reputation. I would imagine Miss Osomir has no problems with the Muslims carrying signs saying that Hitler should have finished the job or one man's sign saying Kill the Juice (meaning Jews). She just doesn't want anyone to say anything negative about Islam (I wonder why) even though the sad thing is that many people who follow this faith are even murdering each other if you are not of the right sect. Sad that the Ahmadi Muslims say they only feel safe here in America.

 

[Roudy]

Shariah code gives a MAN, the father, of a child to marry her off at whatever age he pleases.

Says the guy who has no idea how shariah code is formed. You don't even know what hadiths are. Do you even know how Shariah lawsets are made? You keep talking about it as if it were one singular code so I'm guessing that the answer is "no."

What are you babbling now? I noticed you didn't dispute the fact that its the father that has the right to marry his daughter off, and the mother and daughter have no say in the matter.