Chicago democrats…supporting gun crime again…they end police foot pursuits…what could go wrong?

[JoeB131]

We know how to prevent it.......you guys just want to take guns away from people who don't commit crime or mass public shootings with them....

And again, Britain had 2 mass public shootings.......what kept those guys from going into a school.....?

They had 2. We've had hundreds.

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Perfect world, no one would have guns. The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts, and the police would be able to kick down the door of anyone suspected of having a gun and confiscating them.

Even I think this would be going too far.

But, hey, how about giving some real scrutiny to the NEW gun owners who want to cause some mayhem. It seems like every mass shooter bought his guns within days or weeks of going on their rampage.

So let's put scrutiny on all NEW purchases. Let's even grant that the Ammosexual stroking his gun for the last five years is unlikely to go on a rampage now.

But if some freakshow shows up at a gun store with orange or pink hair, maybe, just maybe, we do a little more than check his FOID card before we give him enough firepower to fight the Zombie Apocolypse.

 

[2aguy]

They had 2. We've had hundreds.

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Perfect world, no one would have guns. The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts, and the police would be able to kick down the door of anyone suspected of having a gun and confiscating them.

Even I think this would be going too far.

But, hey, how about giving some real scrutiny to the NEW gun owners who want to cause some mayhem. It seems like every mass shooter bought his guns within days or weeks of going on their rampage.

So let's put scrutiny on all NEW purchases. Let's even grant that the Ammosexual stroking his gun for the last five years is unlikely to go on a rampage now.

But if some freakshow shows up at a gun store with orange or pink hair, maybe, just maybe, we do a little more than check his FOID card before we give him enough firepower to fight the Zombie Apocolypse.

We haven't had hundreds.......we have over 330 million Americans... last year 6 committed acts of mass public shooting.....

They had your perfect world in Europe....the enemies of the state were banned from owning guns.....the government then went on to murder 15 million innocent men, women and children...that you guys ignore this is just insane.....

Wrong....mass shooters, including the Highland Park guy planned the attack for weeks if not longer, some upwards of 2 years...

And we should do the same for people who drive cars........since mass public shooters killed 43 people in 2021.....cars killed over 49,000.......no one gets to drive a car if they have pink hair......there you go...

 

[JoeB131]

We haven't had hundreds.......we have over 330 million Americans... last year 6 committed acts of mass public shooting.....

Why do you keep lying?

We had 693 mass shootings last year.

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2021 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2aguy]

They had 2. We've had hundreds.

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Perfect world, no one would have guns. The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts, and the police would be able to kick down the door of anyone suspected of having a gun and confiscating them.

Even I think this would be going too far.

But, hey, how about giving some real scrutiny to the NEW gun owners who want to cause some mayhem. It seems like every mass shooter bought his guns within days or weeks of going on their rampage.

So let's put scrutiny on all NEW purchases. Let's even grant that the Ammosexual stroking his gun for the last five years is unlikely to go on a rampage now.

But if some freakshow shows up at a gun store with orange or pink hair, maybe, just maybe, we do a little more than check his FOID card before we give him enough firepower to fight the Zombie Apocolypse.

Yeah...we see what happens when the government controls the guns.....Mexico...murder rate higher than the U.S....Europe...15 million innocent men, women and children murdered by their governments in just 6 years......Russia, 25 million murdered.....China, 70 million and more murdered....

WE get it....to you that is a good start, you hate people.....to us? We will not give up our guns to morons like you...

 

[2aguy]

Why do you keep lying?

We had 693 mass shootings last year.

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2021 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nope......we had 6 last year according to the actual Definition...

US mass shootings, 1982–2022: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

• Here is a description of the criteria we use:
  
  
  • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
  • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
  • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)
  • Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
• 
  
  • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
  • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
  ----------------------

Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker.

We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.)

Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2021...6
2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation




330 million Americans......how many committed mass public shootings in 2021....

6

How many did they murder....

43

Deer kill 200 people a year.....

Lawn mowers between 90-100 people a year....

Ladders 300 people a year....

bathtubs 350 people a year...

Cars killed over 39,000 people in 2019...

So....6 people in a country of over 330 million committed mass public shootings....and for this, you think we should ban 600 million guns...?


Total number of people killed in mass public shootings by year...


2021...43
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah...we see what happens when the government controls the guns.....

Yes, you have low crime rates...

Mexico...murder rate higher than the U.S....Europe...15 million innocent men, women and children murdered by their governments in just 6 years......

Mexico has a high crime rate because we've been flooding the country with guns.

As for "Europe", the Europeans had plenty of guns in World War II.

Hitler REPEALLED the Weimar gun laws. (which weren't terribly effective to start with, which is why communists and Nazis had gun battles in the street. ) But this funny thing happened. When the Nazis came for the Jews, not a one of those German citizen soldiers ran out and tried to stop them.

When the Army tried to overthrow Hitler in the July 20 plot, none of those German citizens rushed out and tried to take their country back. In fact, most of them considered those officers traitors.

Oh, they did fight to the last old man and little boy in the Volksgrenadiers with those guns when the Allies closed in, which just prolonged the agony.

 

[2aguy]

Yes, you have low crime rates...


Mexico has a high crime rate because we've been flooding the country with guns.

As for "Europe", the Europeans had plenty of guns in World War II.

Hitler REPEALLED the Weimar gun laws. (which weren't terribly effective to start with, which is why communists and Nazis had gun battles in the street. ) But this funny thing happened. When the Nazis came for the Jews, not a one of those German citizen soldiers ran out and tried to stop them.

When the Army tried to overthrow Hitler in the July 20 plot, none of those German citizens rushed out and tried to take their country back. In fact, most of them considered those officers traitors.

Oh, they did fight to the last old man and little boy in the Volksgrenadiers with those guns when the Allies closed in, which just prolonged the agony.

No, Mexico has a high crime rate because the government and the cartels have the guns.........and our guns aren't flooding Mexico, the Mexican military is taking the guns we sell them and giving them to the cartels........you idiot.....

The Hitler lie? Again?

Hitler took guns away from Jews and the political opposition parties...then he murdered them....

By the time they went after the Jews, no one could stand up to the socialists........because they gave up their guns in the 1920s.....

 

[JoeB131]

No, Mexico has a high crime rate because the government and the cartels have the guns.........and our guns aren't flooding Mexico, the Mexican military is taking the guns we sell them and giving them to the cartels...

Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico

Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.

news.harvard.edu

Mexican officials have said that a significant part of the epidemic of violence and crime that has plagued their nation in recent decades is driven by the illicit traffic of weapons from the U.S. Mexico has restrictive firearms laws, with one gun store in the entire nation and only about 50 permits issued per year. Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels, in particular, buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.

Hitler took guns away from Jews and the political opposition parties...then he murdered them....

Uh, the Jews were only a VERY SMALL part of Germany's population. Most Germans owned guns...not a one rushed out to save the Jews. They were more like, "Can I have his stuff?"

That's why I don't buy the "I needs my guns to fights the government" shit you people say.. because most of you are chickenshits who would just go along.

 

[2aguy]

Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico

Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.

news.harvard.edu

Mexican officials have said that a significant part of the epidemic of violence and crime that has plagued their nation in recent decades is driven by the illicit traffic of weapons from the U.S. Mexico has restrictive firearms laws, with one gun store in the entire nation and only about 50 permits issued per year. Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels, in particular, buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.



Uh, the Jews were only a VERY SMALL part of Germany's population. Most Germans owned guns...not a one rushed out to save the Jews. They were more like, "Can I have his stuff?"

That's why I don't buy the "I needs my guns to fights the government" shit you people say.. because most of you are chickenshits who would just go along.

Moron...the government is as bad as the cartels.......the U.S. sells guns to the Mexican military who then diverts them to the cartels......

And the 70-90% lie? Again......? Really?

For several years now, Stratfor has been closely watching developments in Mexico that relate to what we consider the three wars being waged there. Those three wars are the war between the various drug cartels, the war between the government and the cartels, and the war being waged against citizens and businesses by criminals.
-------

By the Numbers​

As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing.

In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing.

This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.

worldview.stratfor.com

======


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-control-laws-a-model-for-the-united-states/


Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico.

To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives.

The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/

Stratfor: The World's Leading Geopolitical Intelligence Platform

 

[2aguy]

Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico

Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.

news.harvard.edu

Mexican officials have said that a significant part of the epidemic of violence and crime that has plagued their nation in recent decades is driven by the illicit traffic of weapons from the U.S. Mexico has restrictive firearms laws, with one gun store in the entire nation and only about 50 permits issued per year. Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels, in particular, buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.



Uh, the Jews were only a VERY SMALL part of Germany's population. Most Germans owned guns...not a one rushed out to save the Jews. They were more like, "Can I have his stuff?"

That's why I don't buy the "I needs my guns to fights the government" shit you people say.. because most of you are chickenshits who would just go along.

It isn't just the Jews in Germany.....when you don't support the nazis, and your business is looted and burned, and the police just stand by....and you can do nothing to stop them because you don't have guns......then there is little chance moderates can keep the tiny number of socialist monsters from taking power.....

Guns in the hands of normal people keep political discourse from turning violent....that is why the democrat party brown shirts, blm and antifa, only burn, loot and kill in black neighborhoods where the democrats control the police and have enacted extreme gun control....

The blm and antifa brown shirts kept walking past the home of the couple who had guns, but burned, looted and killed in gun controlled cities controlled by the democrats....

 

[JoeB131]

Moron...the government is as bad as the cartels.......the U.S. sells guns to the Mexican military who then diverts them to the cartels......

And the 70-90% lie? Again......? Really?

Uh, everything you don't like is fake news... got it.

 

[2aguy]

Uh, everything you don't like is fake news... got it.

I posted the links to the truth.....you lying asshole...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Perfect world, no one would have guns. The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts…

History has clearly shown us what your “perfect world” looks like.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car. You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.

Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.

Tennessee appeals court rules a person leaving keys in vehicle can be held responsible for a car thief's crash

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.The

www.timesnews.net

So if someone is killed by a stolen gun, and you find out that the gun store has sold dozens of guns to the same straw buyer who reports them all "stolen", I'm all for letting a civil court sort it out.

Again- RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES.

Auto dealers will sell to anyone. I bought my first car from a dealer and drove it off the lot in 1970. THEN I went to DMV to take my driving test. The only thing the dealer cares about is getting paid for the car.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car. You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.

Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.

Tennessee appeals court rules a person leaving keys in vehicle can be held responsible for a car thief's crash

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.The

www.timesnews.net

So if someone is killed by a stolen gun, and you find out that the gun store has sold dozens of guns to the same straw buyer who reports them all "stolen", I'm all for letting a civil court sort it out.

Again- RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES.

Also, just like Gun makers, Auto makers DON'T sell to the public. They sell to retail sellers who then sell to the public.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car. You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.

Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.

Tennessee appeals court rules a person leaving keys in vehicle can be held responsible for a car thief's crash

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.The

www.timesnews.net

So if someone is killed by a stolen gun, and you find out that the gun store has sold dozens of guns to the same straw buyer who reports them all "stolen", I'm all for letting a civil court sort it out.

Again- RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES.

That article isn't very clear, but all it looks to say is that the court allowed the suit to go forward, NOT that the car owner was responsible. The decision said the POLICE DEPARTMENT wasn't responsible for the results of the chase.

 

[AZrailwhale]

View attachment 662052



Blah, lah, blah.... 1.1 million times and only 200 dead bodies. That doesn't pass the laugh test.

To misquote Inigo Montoya: "I don't think that means what you think it does". It doesn't say a single thing about using that gun for illegal activities.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Because some of those dealers work out of their homes, and no one is vetting them...

So again, let's allow gun victims to sue the gun makers and sellers, and you'd be AMAZED how quickly they clean up their acts.

A dealer doesn't need a storefront. I've known dealers who worked out of their homes. They had to file and maintain the same records a seller with a storefront did. They have to meet the same inspection requirements a brick-and-mortar store does. Selling guns without a license is a federal felony and will get you serious prison time, Here's an excerpt from the BATF website: "The federal Gun Control Act (GCA) requires that persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms be licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Federal firearms licensees (FFL) are critical partners in promoting public safety because—among other things—they help keep firearms out of the hands of prohibited persons by running background checks on potential firearms purchasers, ensure that crime guns can be traced back to their first retail purchaser by keeping records of transactions, and facilitate safe storage of firearms by providing child safety locks with every transferred handgun and having secure gun storage or safety locks available any place where they sell firearms. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution, and can be sentenced to up to five years in prison, fined up to $250,000, or both".

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nope. The fact is that they don't let average citizens own guns and have low crime rates despite lack of belief in sky pixies, high illegitimacy, etc.

The only different factor is... guns.



Wow, what an inflated opinion of ourselves you have.

Turns out the Evil Empire was a collection of third world countries. They were smart not to bankrupt themselves buying $600.00 toilet seats.

Let's compare the UK and the USA.
Total number of violent crimes in the USA =(NOT PER CAPITA RAW NUMBERS) 1,313,105. USA population= 331,450,000
Total number of violent crimes in the UK and Wales (NOT PER CAPITA RAW NUMBERS) = 1,778,507. UK and Wales population= 59,440,000
Data from Statista.com
So not only does the UK have larger raw numbers of violent crimes than the USA, but roughly a sixth of the population. Tell us again how gun control cuts violent crime. Criminals are actually emboldened by gun control. The UK's violent crime rates skyrocketed after their gun ban, it's now about SIX times higher than the USA per capita.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Of course they are getting more... the gun industry is practically handing them out.

British and European criminals are getting their guns from the Middle East and Eastern Europe, NOT the USA.