Chevy Volt - What is GM doing?

[saveliberty]

It truly takes an idiot to not factor in the additional $10,000 in the purchase price as a cost of producing the energy.

Since when does buying one cage over another have ANYTHING to do with saving money, or the energy cost of running the engine? You think a single Corvette would be sold in the US if the determining factor for the purchase had anything to do with fuel cost on size of the intial investment? What kind of idiot would ever think that? You some kind of car hater?

I want a Volt because it is cool, no baby seals died in its construction, I can contribute voluntarily towards saving the planet, and when we run out of crude based liquid fuels, I can still motor off to work in air conditioned comfort! The "value" of any of those, let alone all of them, far outways the measly $10,000 you say I have to make up in savings to break even in some bloodless, bean counter hell you appear familiar with.

Being a car hater would probably not be in my best interest. I sell them for most of my annual income. Very happy you can justify the purchase. For me multiple solutions to energy use is probably best. It doesn't work for me in my circumstances.

I tend to quiz my customers in order to get the best fit for what they need and want. Frequently I am thanked for providing valuable consultations and alternatives to the ideas they had coming into the dealership. Half that time, they still buy what they had orginally planned, but come away with even more reasons why it amkes sense for them. The better the fit, the lower buyer's remorse I face and loyalty I build with people.

 

[asterism]

It truly takes an idiot to not factor in the additional $10,000 in the purchase price as a cost of producing the energy.

Since when does buying one cage over another have ANYTHING to do with saving money, or the energy cost of running the engine? You think a single Corvette would be sold in the US if the determining factor for the purchase had anything to do with fuel cost on size of the intial investment? What kind of idiot would ever think that? You some kind of car hater?

I want a Volt because it is cool, no baby seals died in its construction, I can contribute voluntarily towards saving the planet, and when we run out of crude based liquid fuels, I can still motor off to work in air conditioned comfort! The "value" of any of those, let alone all of them, far outways the measly $10,000 you say I have to make up in savings to break even in some bloodless, bean counter hell you appear familiar with.

Where is the electricity for the car going to come from without fossil fuels?

 

[saveliberty]

Where is the electricity for the car going to come from without fossil fuels?

Rainbows and Unicorns.

 

[RGR]

By the time the world runs out of "crude-based liquid fuels", your bones will have been reduced to dust and your great, great, great, great, great grandchildren will be asking "who the hell was that crazy global warming nutbar that's in our family tree?".

What is a "global warming nutbar"? And I never said we would run out of fossil fuels for the usual reasons. I was around during the 70's embargos, and we had rationing! It was horrible! Imagine a scenario where one day, the Canadians decide to stop selling us their tar sand oil! It might be...disruptive! I might otherwise have to walk to work! The horror!

But if I had the precognitive foresight to have a Volt, I would be SAVED from this calorie expenditure scheme called exercise!

 

[RGR]

Where is the electricity for the car going to come from without fossil fuels?

Here in Colorado I am already charged for the electricity coming from local windfarms. If they are going to charge me for expensive electricity, I might as well use it to fuel a Volt rather than handing it over to the Canadians, Mexicans, Venezuelans or Saudi Arabians! BRING ON COLORADO WIND POWER FOR MY VOLT!! (Maybe I would like the Volt so much I would trade up?)

 

[RGR]

I tend to quiz my customers in order to get the best fit for what they need and want. Frequently I am thanked for providing valuable consultations and alternatives to the ideas they had coming into the dealership. Half that time, they still buy what they had orginally planned, but come away with even more reasons why it amkes sense for them. The better the fit, the lower buyer's remorse I face and loyalty I build with people.

Sound like a car salesman type person after my own heart! My favorite salesmen was a CPA, he knew numbers as well as I did and we could sit down, work out a deal in 5 minutes, shake hands, and I would come back the next day and pickup the convertible, diesel pickup, whatever was on the agenda.

My second favorite salesman of all time was ex Air Force, honest, reasonable, I tend to like those types. The first time someone asks me "what can I do to sell you a car today!" I wander off, never to return.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

By the time the world runs out of "crude-based liquid fuels", your bones will have been reduced to dust and your great, great, great, great, great grandchildren will be asking "who the hell was that crazy global warming nutbar that's in our family tree?".

What is a "global warming nutbar"? And I never said we would run out of fossil fuels for the usual reasons. I was around during the 70's embargos, and we had rationing! It was horrible! Imagine a scenario where one day, the Canadians decide to stop selling us their tar sand oil! It might be...disruptive! I might otherwise have to walk to work! The horror!

But if I had the precognitive foresight to have a Volt, I would be SAVED from this calorie expenditure scheme called exercise!

I was also around for both 70s oil embargos. So what is your point?

I doubt that the Canadians and the Mexicans will suddenly stop selling us their crude oil. They need the revenue just as much as we need the oil.

If this country had political leaders with COURAGE, they would stand up to the enviro-nazis and start allowing more oil exploration and production.

The inefficient windmills and solar energy systems will NEVER replace coal or oil or nuclear power. They will never be more than very poor SUPPLEMENTS to our current forms of energy production.

Overpriced electric cars and hybrid cars and Tesla-type government-subsidized luxury electric cars are all a JOKE. The technology is here, today, to build a viable electrically powered family sedan, but NOBODY in the government wants to allow the technology to be used in mainstream America.

 

[RGR]

I was also around for both 70s oil embargos. So what is your point?

Peak oil isn't the only thing which can cause a lack of supply. To the point of shortages and rationing. Hell, a decent power outage along the Gulf Coast can cause the same sorts of disruptions. At which point, those motoring to work in the Volt get kudos for foresight!

I doubt that the Canadians and the Mexicans will suddenly stop selling us their crude oil. They need the revenue just as much as we need the oil.

They do need the revenue. And rather than giving an increasing part of my discretionary income to them, I would rather give it to my local electric company.

If this country had political leaders with COURAGE, they would stand up to the enviro-nazis and start allowing more oil exploration and production.

Courage is good. A quality not usually found in politicians, you know what they say about wishing in one hand, and crap in the other, right? You have to admit though, as long as the enviro-Nazis succeed in artificially constricting supply, those of us in the industry can continue making a MINT! We do pass along our costs, so really, we make a MINT at the expense of the consumer.

The inefficient windmills and solar energy systems will NEVER replace coal or oil or nuclear power. They will never be more than very poor SUPPLEMENTS to our current forms of energy production.

Maybe. Why does it matter? Once the hackers find out how to defeat the traction control on a Volt, I'll be able to use either fuel, crude based or electricity, to do burnouts in front of the local burger joint! Which is the entire point of owning an auto, in my book.

Overpriced electric cars and hybrid cars and Tesla-type government-subsidized luxury electric cars are all a JOKE.

So are supercharged Vettes and Mustangs and Hummers and everything with four wheels which isn't cheap. So what? They are COOL! And people will pay MORE for them, just like a guy like me might pay more for a Volt. Why condemn my auto choices? You might think a 20 year old Corolla is just jim-cracky great, but I want a Volt!

The technology is here, today, to build a viable electrically powered family sedan, but NOBODY in the government wants to allow the technology to be used in mainstream America.

Says who? I'd buy one of those too!

 

[TruthSeeker56]

I was also around for both 70s oil embargos. So what is your point?

Peak oil isn't the only thing which can cause a lack of supply. To the point of shortages and rationing. Hell, a decent power outage along the Gulf Coast can cause the same sorts of disruptions. At which point, those motoring to work in the Volt get kudos for foresight!

I doubt that the Canadians and the Mexicans will suddenly stop selling us their crude oil. They need the revenue just as much as we need the oil.

They do need the revenue. And rather than giving an increasing part of my discretionary income to them, I would rather give it to my local electric company.



Courage is good. A quality not usually found in politicians, you know what they say about wishing in one hand, and crap in the other, right? You have to admit though, as long as the enviro-Nazis succeed in artificially constricting supply, those of us in the industry can continue making a MINT! We do pass along our costs, so really, we make a MINT at the expense of the consumer.



Maybe. Why does it matter? Once the hackers find out how to defeat the traction control on a Volt, I'll be able to use either fuel, crude based or electricity, to do burnouts in front of the local burger joint! Which is the entire point of owning an auto, in my book.

Overpriced electric cars and hybrid cars and Tesla-type government-subsidized luxury electric cars are all a JOKE.

So are supercharged Vettes and Mustangs and Hummers and everything with four wheels which isn't cheap. So what? They are COOL! And people will pay MORE for them, just like a guy like me might pay more for a Volt. Why condemn my auto choices? You might think a 20 year old Corolla is just jim-cracky great, but I want a Volt!

The technology is here, today, to build a viable electrically powered family sedan, but NOBODY in the government wants to allow the technology to be used in mainstream America.

Says who? I'd buy one of those too!

I'm not criticizing you specifically for your choice in transportation. I don't care if you prefer to ride in a rickshaw with "Hop Sing" pulling you down the street.

My point is that you should not have to overpay for a crappy electric car, when the technology is available, and viable, for you to pay half the price for a much better electric car, but NOBODY in the government or in the auto industry wants to see that technology see the light of day.

 

[Zander]

When I retire and move to a golf course I will buy a Volt. It's a glorified golf cart.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

When I retire and move to a golf course I will buy a Volt. It's a glorified golf cart.

We have a golf cart at our summer home. It's the chief mode of transportation for all the residents. 2005 Yamaha, 36 volts, 6- 6 volt batteries, can go about 15 MPH (top speed is controlled by a governor, of course), and we charge it once a week. Came right off of a golf course, and we paid $1200 for it. After I put headlights, taillights, a windshield, a horn, wheel covers, and a fold-down back seat on it, I've got about $2000 invested in it. The batteries are good for at least five years, and new batteries cost about $80 a piece.

When it comes right down to it, all these "new" electric cars are, are really over-priced road-legal golf carts.

 

[RGR]

My point is that you should not have to overpay for a crappy electric car, when the technology is available, and viable, for you to pay half the price for a much better electric car, but NOBODY in the government or in the auto industry wants to see that technology see the light of day.

The market is what the market is.

The Volt I drove was not a CRAPPY car. It was quite nice. It was also, relatively, expensive. Could it be better? I have no doubt. But it certainly isn't bad as it sits right now. Would I buy it at half the cost? Sure I would. Go make a better one, sell it for half the price, and I'll buy one from you. So might a few million other people, and you'll be rich!

Want to bet designing one, manufacturing and distributing it, paying for liability insurance for the few that burn down someone's house, financing it, providing a warranty and repairing it, and then making money on this little operation isn't as easy as you seem to imply?

 

[RGR]

When I retire and move to a golf course I will buy a Volt. It's a glorified golf cart.

Run that golf cart into the rear of an SUV parked along the road changing out a tire at 70mph on the interstate, let us know how well the golf cart airbags and crumple zone work out for you. If you can.

 

[RGR]

When it comes right down to it, all these "new" electric cars are, are really over-priced road-legal golf carts.

Sounds like it must cost like $30G's just to equip them with lights and take that governor off then! You can corner the market on EV manufacturing with how cheaply you can make them, and become Bill Gates! I recommend buying up all the used golf carts you can find immediately. Will you cut me in as the supplier for the turn signals for 5% of the profit you'll make? We'll be rich!

 

[Zander]

When I retire and move to a golf course I will buy a Volt. It's a glorified golf cart.

Run that golf cart into the rear of an SUV parked along the road changing out a tire at 70mph on the interstate, let us know how well the golf cart airbags and crumple zone work out for you. If you can.

Why would I do that? I will drive the VOLT where it was intended to be driven, on a golf course!

 

[saveliberty]

Perhaps some of you are unaware a few full size SUVs have hybrid systems in them.

 

[RGR]

Perhaps some of you are unaware a few full size SUVs have hybrid systems in them.

First hybrid I ever purchased was a mid-sized AWD SUV. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!

 

[flacaltenn]

If you have to ask 'will this car get me home' ... You shouldn't have baught it

When you have to ask every morning if the car in the garage will get you to work and back ... You shouldn't have baught it.

You have assembled a very specific scheme to use range anxiety against someone enthusiastic about the idea of a Volt. 75% of Americans don't have to commute across Dallas and Fort Worth, they commute less than 40 miles. The Volts electric range was designed to be 40 miles for that reason, and another couple of hundred if you want to burn gas.

Let us talk about the other scenario for commuters using the Volt. I live in Denver. From my door, Denver downtown is 7 miles away (14 total). After roundtripping that to catch a meeting say, I drive to work in the other direction (2 miles away, 18 total). I stop at the liquor store on the way home (20 miles total), I change my mind, decide to pick up a kid at her friend's house (22 miles total), run to Dairy Queen to get an ice cream cone (24 miles total), take my daughter to orchestra practice (30 miles total), run out for a late night burger (33 miles total) and then catch the midnight showing at the movie theater (35 miles total).

I park the car in the garage at 2AM, plug it in without having used any gasoline that day. Not everyone lives in a megatropolis. Volt would work just GREAT! for us, which, based on a 40-mile or less commute, is 75% of the commuting public.

Except that those figures will vary GREATLY in the Winter time with the heater on. Especially if you're in dense traffic..

THe deal is that you can't run it down to idiot light like you can with an ICE engine. You should always leave a margin in it. And with only 70 miles or so banked, leaving a 10 or 15mile "cushion" is asking a lot..

 

[TruthSeeker56]

The market is what the market is.

The Volt I drove was not a CRAPPY car. It was quite nice. It was also, relatively, expensive. Could it be better? I have no doubt. But it certainly isn't bad as it sits right now. Would I buy it at half the cost? Sure I would. Go make a better one, sell it for half the price, and I'll buy one from you. So might a few million other people, and you'll be rich!

Want to bet designing one, manufacturing and distributing it, paying for liability insurance for the few that burn down someone's house, financing it, providing a warranty and repairing it, and then making money on this little operation isn't as easy as you seem to imply?

So why do you insist on "reinventing the wheel"? I have a better idea. How about retro-fitting internal combustion-driven vehicles with electrically-powered drivetrains? Why waste the money building a new electric car from the ground up?

How about converting your 2008 Chevy Cobalt to a 2008 Electric Chevy Cobalt for around $10,000? The price would not vary much between different models (and sizes) of cars.

It can be done.

 

[RGR]

So why do you insist on "reinventing the wheel"? I have a better idea. How about retro-fitting internal combustion-driven vehicles with electrically-powered drivetrains? Why waste the money building a new electric car from the ground up?

How about converting your 2008 Chevy Cobalt to a 2008 Electric Chevy Cobalt for around $10,000? The price would not vary much between different models (and sizes) of cars.

It can be done.

A perfectly reasonable suggestion, and yes, I agree it can be done. Given the desire of course. Which begs the question, why would I want to? I don't build houses or cars any more than joe average explores for, drills, completes, produces, transports or refines the fuels which would power this thing. But I can help him out with that, just like maybe he could help me out building a car. Isn't that what the gang at Chevy did for me? And responding in kind, I make sure they have fuels to run it on.