Charlie Kirk Shot and Killed at Utah Valley University

[TemplarKormac]

Was Thomas Jefferson an extreme leftist?

Why do you ask?

 

[Dagoth-Ur]

So why not condemn them both? It seems what rational people would do. No?




Was Thomas Jefferson an extreme leftist?

Of course Jefferson wasn’t, he rejected the Blank Slate and Egalitarianism.

 

[Dagoth-Ur]

sorry, it's both sides.

Nope, bothsideism is a cop out.

 

[TemplarKormac]

sorry, it's both sides.

Equivalence is the loser's gambit. A refusal to acknowledge their own real flaws in their political behavior.

 

[pknopp]

Why do you ask?

what country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion?

 

[pknopp]

Equivalence is the loser's gambit. A refusal to acknowledge their own real flaws in their political behavior.

refusal to acknowledge what flaw?

 

[zaangalewa]

Sadly, some who live in America aren’t Americans ...

Lots of Germans are Americans. And lots of Americans are Nazis. So why should an extremist German American not kill another American who supports Nazis in Germany?

 

[TemplarKormac]

what country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion?

Again, why do you ask?

 

[pknopp]

Again, why do you ask?

I think you can figure it out.

 

[TemplarKormac]

refusal to acknowledge what flaw?

Flaw(s)

Their extremism. Their violent rhetoric. Their sadistic glee over the death of an opposing political figure, violence toward or assassinating said political figure.

For the moment the left has put themselves in the spotlight, so equivalence won't do here. I know the right has or had the same kind of flaws, but the left is the subject of this conversation.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think you can figure it out.

Humor me.

 

[zaangalewa]

... paperwork citizens ...

Defined from modern German artheists? So German Jews who lived since the third century in Germany and some German Christians who lived since the second century in Germany suddenly not had been Germans any longer under the born Austrian Adolf Hitler?

What is for you a "paperwork citizen" of the USA?

 

[Dagoth-Ur]

what country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion?

One that was free or one where tyranny reigns supreme.

 

[pknopp]

Flaw(s)

Their extremism. Their violent rhetoric. Their sadistic glee over the death of an opposing political figure, violence toward or assassinating said political figure.

For the moment the left has put themselves in the spotlight, so equivalence won't do here. I know the right has or had the same kind of flaws, but the left is the subject of this conversation

what Trump said (has said in the past also) isn't violent rhetoric? And how is it a flaw when I say BOTH should be condemned?

I condemn them BOTH. You seem unable to do that so instead of responding to me you argue against something not even in this discussion.

 

[pknopp]

Humor me.

Jefferson was arguing that violence (towards the government) was inevitable.

 

[Nobody911]

I believe I have uncovered some clues related to the possible killer(s). Who would benefit the most from Kirk's death?

Charlie Kirk was an American right-wing political activist, author, and media personality born on October 14, 1993, and died on September 10, 2025. He co-founded Turning Point USA (TPUSA) in 2012, a conservative organization aimed at mobilizing young conservatives on college campuses, and served as its executive director.

Kirk was a vocal supporter of Donald Trump and promoted conservative causes aligned with Trump's agenda. He was known for his strong stances against liberal education, gun control, abortion, LGBTQ rights, and for promoting Christian nationalism. Kirk was also involved in spreading conspiracy theories and misinformation, particularly around topics like electoral fraud and COVID-19. He was killed in a shooting while speaking at a TPUSA event at Utah Valley University in 2025. wikipedia+3

Groups and individuals opposing Kirk or his ideas:

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) accused him of creating a platform for extremists and far-right conspiracy theorists.

Critics have labeled some of his initiatives, like the Professor Watchlist, as modern-day McCarthyism.

He was heavily criticized for antisemitic comments and conspiracy theories related to Jewish influence, drawing rebukes even from conservative commentators and groups.

Opponents include left-leaning activists, liberal student groups, and many in the political left who strongly oppose his views on race, LGBTQ rights, and social justice issues.

His promotion of conspiracy theories and misinformation also made him a target of fact-checkers and critics across the political spectrum.

In summary, Charlie Kirk was a highly influential conservative activist and media figure, particularly among young conservatives, who was also a polarizing figure with strong opposition from liberals, left-wing groups, and some Jewish organizations due to controversial views and statements.

sources:

1. Charlie Kirk - Wikipedia
2. Charlie Kirk, conservative activist who considered himself a defender of Jews and Israel, is dead at 31 - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
3. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/10/nx-s1-5537045/charlie-kirk-shot-utah
4. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdxqnkwerj7o
5. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxqnkwerj7o
6. https://apnews.com/article/charlie-...-republicans-8357c3d102de09e3320fde761258131a
7. https://news.sky.com/story/who-was-...esman-to-young-people-across-america-13428452
8. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...s-shooting-charlie-kirk-event-utah-rcna230437
9. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/10/charlie-kirk-obituary-shooting-donald-trump-00556516
10. https://www.wired.com/story/far-right-reactions-charlie-kirk-shooting-civil-war/

 

[Dagoth-Ur]

Lots of Germans are Americans. And lots of Americans are Nazis. So why should an extremist German American not kill another American who supports Nazis in Germany?

Did you literally not read the warning one page back?!

Because AfD aren’t Nazis and the fact you think they are only proves how much you don’t understand anything.

 

[TemplarKormac]

what Trump said (has said in the past also) isn't violent rhetoric and how is it a flaw when I say BOTH should be condemned?

I condemn them BOTH. You seem unable to do that so instead of responding to me you argue against something not even in this discussion.

I can condemn both sides. But in recent years it has been primarily one side only.

I'll condemn the other side should it become necessary. There is a time and place for everything, pknopp.

(Also, I condemned the Charlottesville guy who killed that woman with his car during that riot)

 

[TemplarKormac]

Jefferson was arguing that violence (towards the government) was inevitable.

It is.

 

[pknopp]

I can condemn both sides. But in recent years it has been primarily one side only.

Hardly.

I'll condemn the other side should it become necessary. There is a time and place for everything, pknopp.

(Also, I condemned the Charlottesville guy who killed that woman with his car during that riot)

But you can't condemn Trump's violent rhetoric.