Change? Can we afford it?

[jreeves]

Navy, the Mass. plan is the worst of both worlds. A single payer system is what I am talking about. We will have it one day, or we will go bankrupt.

So when you said that universal healthcare would save us 200 billion dollars, you were either lying or misinformed correct?

I mean even Barack admitted it would cost 65 billion dollars a year, right?

 

[Navy1960]

Navy, the Mass. plan is the worst of both worlds. A single payer system is what I am talking about. We will have it one day, or we will go bankrupt.

Well I think I made my position very clear on the Universal Healthcare thing. If this country wants to go down the path to bankruptcy a lot faster then that is the best way to do it. Then you will have a wonderful system where, everyone will have health insurance but no place to get healthcare, want to know why? because the for profit health care companies will be long gone. Then you will have a massive govt. program on the scale of the SSA with several million employee's needed just to administer this debacle. On a different note, I want someone to tell me, and this is an honest question, why do you think that our goverment owe's healthcare to everyone? I can tell you when I first joined the Navy back in the ancient times. that was the furthest thing from my mind, and was always under the impression that in this country that if you wanted something you had to work to get it. Am I wrong in that assumption? Are we now a country that simply owes things to people because they suck in oxygen? Let me put it another way. I'm sure all of you are hard working people, ask yourselves. is it fundmentally fair to take money that you earn by working hard, and provide a benefit to someone else who is as healthy as you are but doesn't work and sits around and watches Jerry Springer all day long?

 

[jreeves]

I don't know if he has changed on this or not. Last I heard the number was still that, and troops would go back into Afghanistan.

Kerry made some of the same noise, when he said Bush had taken his eye off the ball as regards bin Laden.

Personally, the view near the center looks like the republicans don't want to catch bin Laden at all, or secure the Afghanistan situation, which is an odd position for the party that wants to claim security credentials. But enough people seem to believe it, so c'est le vie.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVsqFQTbKXo]YouTube - Obama Flip-Flops on Iraq Withdrawl[/ame]

 

[Care4all]

The over 490 billion dollar deficit came while Democrats held the purse strings.

yep, but it was because of the pending recession and giving us a tax rebate that was $150 billion that was not in the budget, the $100 billion to bear sterns, or a smaller part of it, was in there too i believe....plus several billion for iraq in supplemental bills that are not in the president's/congress's budget nor the cost of Ike, which will make it even bigger and with fannie mae/fm, even bigger.... frightening really!!!

 

[jreeves]

yep, but it was because of the pending recession and giving us a tax rebate that was $150 billion that was not in the budget, the $100 billion to bear sterns, or a smaller part of it, was in there too i believe....plus several billion for iraq in supplemental bills that are not in the president's/congress's budget nor the cost of Ike, which will make it even bigger and with fannie mae/fm, even bigger.... frightening really!!!

Isn't there excuses for all budget deficits? I mean Republicans claim the reason for the budget deficits under their control was due to a new threat, Terrorism? I believe that both parties are responsible for our budget deficits.

 

[Navy1960]

I took the job when I was eighteen and still in high school but I moved my way up and worked hard for them, don't you feel I deserved health insurance. And there was a lady you worked there for 30 years and they cut her to part time after this and lost her insurance.
And as for your military I thought about when I was a senior in high school actually the navy but my softball coach who was in the navy talked me out of it. If I would have done this I would have been in when the Irag war started. And as for now I have a son and no way I am leaving.
And you didn't answer my question, do you really think McCain will do this?

Do I think John McCain will keep this country safe absolutly, do I think John McCain will give Universal Healthcare to all, I hope not, only because I don't think Universal Healthcare is an obligation that the Federal Goverenment owe's it's citizens. Do I think John McCain will end the Iraq war with honor and dignity , yes I do. Do I think John McCain has a magic wand to fix all the economic problems we face. no, not without the input and and help of everyone, the same goes for my feelings on energy. However on the energy thing, I do think that his plan on energy is more realistic than Obama's and realizes that we have to use our resources here till we get to the point where we can use new technologies. As for your situation, thats a choice though you made Luissa and I completely respect and admire your choice, but if your priority or one of them at least is healthcare and your employer did not provide it for you, rather than blame them, find one that does. Where there is a will there is a way, and your a smart young woman, and know that better than this old aviator. I do however, think that if Universal Healthcare within a state is so pressing a matter that it is voted upon by those in that state, then by all means, who am I to say no.

 

[Luissa]

Do I think John McCain will keep this country safe absolutly, do I think John McCain will give Universal Healthcare to all, I hope not, only because I don't think Universal Healthcare is an obligation that the Federal Goverenment owe's it's citizens. Do I think John McCain will end the Iraq war with honor and dignity , yes I do. Do I think John McCain has a magic wand to fix all the economic problems we face. no, not without the input and and help of everyone, the same goes for my feelings on energy. However on the energy thing, I do think that his plan on energy is more realistic than Obama's and realizes that we have to use our resources here till we get to the point where we can use new technologies. As for your situation, thats a choice though you made Luissa and I completely respect and admire your choice, but if your priority or one of them at least is healthcare and your employer did not provide it for you, rather than blame them, find one that does. Where there is a will there is a way, and your a smart young woman, and know that better than this old aviator. I do however, think that if Universal Healthcare within a state is so pressing a matter that it is voted upon by those in that state, then by all means, who am I to say no.

You are right I should find one. I do have health care at this point because I am a single mother and I will until my child is a year old because the programs my state has. I am going to college now and in so I have to work part time so therefore I cannot have a job that provides health care. Of course of the programs my state has my child will have health care until I can put him on my own.
And even if I find a job with health care how good will it be? Most of the time you have to pay sometimes half of your medical bills which are high because they have to make up for the people who do not have health care. And if we have socialized medicine do you really think are system just go away all the way together.
Also what about the elderly who are medicare and have to live in a home but medicare does not cover that much so therefore they have to live in a half ass facility where they hire questionable employees. Didn't they always teach us to take care of are elderly. And one of the worst nursing homes I have seen in my city is the one at VA, shouldn't we taking care of our vets also.

 

[Navy1960]

You are right I should find one. I do have health care at this point because I am a single mother and I will until my child is a year old because the programs my state has. I am going to college now and in so I have to work part time so therefore I cannot have a job that provides health care. Of course of the programs my state has my child will have health care until I can put him on my own.
And even if I find a job with health care how good will it be? Most of the time you have to pay sometimes half of your medical bills which are high because they have to make up for the people who do not have health care. And if we have socialized medicine do you really think are system just go away all the way together.
Also what about the elderly who are medicare and have to live in a home but medicare does not cover that much so therefore they have to live in a half ass facility where they hire questionable employees. Didn't they always teach us to take care of are elderly. And one of the worst nursing homes I have seen in my city is the one at VA, shouldn't we taking care of our vets also.

Well your not going to get a fight out of me on the state of care at some VA hospitals. Totally mismanaged and a joke if you have ever had the privledge of using them. Some though, depending on where they are are not all that bad. I'm not surprised on the nursing home though, when it comes to vets , it's sort of thanks now leave. So the thing with Universal Healthcare sort of reminds me of a large version of the VA. and you have seen how screwed up that is. Imagine someone like me having to use that after 24 years in the Military? Sounds fun doesn't it. I honestly think that states and private companies do a much better job of managing their own helth care needs. The Feds are not good at it and will end up being a complete nightmare. BTW , if no one has told you , I'm darn proud of you for your grit and determination for getting out there and getting that degree and knowing whats right for your son. I tell my daughters this all the time, if you want something in the world , go and get it, you may fall down along the way but if you keep your eye on where your going and what you want, you will eventually realize the things that you want.

 

[jreeves]

You are right I should find one. I do have health care at this point because I am a single mother and I will until my child is a year old because the programs my state has. I am going to college now and in so I have to work part time so therefore I cannot have a job that provides health care. Of course of the programs my state has my child will have health care until I can put him on my own.
And even if I find a job with health care how good will it be? Most of the time you have to pay sometimes half of your medical bills which are high because they have to make up for the people who do not have health care. And if we have socialized medicine do you really think are system just go away all the way together.
Also what about the elderly who are medicare and have to live in a home but medicare does not cover that much so therefore they have to live in a half ass facility where they hire questionable employees. Didn't they always teach us to take care of are elderly. And one of the worst nursing homes I have seen in my city is the one at VA, shouldn't we taking care of our vets also.

Which is subsidized with Federal Medicaid dollars, right. The federal government already takes care of children through Medicaid. I have empathy for you, being a single mother. Here is why the federal government can't continue to just spend money on every single problem....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs&feature=related]YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy[/ame]

 

[Luissa]

Well your not going to get a fight out of me on the state of care at some VA hospitals. Totally mismanaged and a joke if you have ever had the privledge of using them. Some though, depending on where they are are not all that bad. I'm not surprised on the nursing home though, when it comes to vets , it's sort of thanks now leave. So the thing with Universal Healthcare sort of reminds me of a large version of the VA. and you have seen how screwed up that is. Imagine someone like me having to use that after 24 years in the Military? Sounds fun doesn't it. I honestly think that states and private companies do a much better job of managing their own helth care needs. The Feds are not good at it and will end up being a complete nightmare. BTW , if no one has told you , I'm darn proud of you for your grit and determination for getting out there and getting that degree and knowing whats right for your son. I tell my daughters this all the time, if you want something in the world , go and get it, you may fall down along the way but if you keep your eye on where your going and what you want, you will eventually realize the things that you want.

You are probably right and i really don't believe in the true form of socialized medicine because of the reasons you stated but there needs to be a reform of the high costs of insurance and the fact so many people do not have health insurance. And I know the government shouldn't take care of everything but what about the greater good. And I think you are maybe right on the state thing I just hope whoever becomes president pressures them do so. And as for the VA i think we need a reform of that whole system. LIke this guy just said on CNN, American don't care about old people, they just push them aside. I just don't think McCain is going to do anything for health care when he wants to cut spending. We need someone who is going to put pressure on insurance companies and prescription drug companies. I passed meds at a nursing home and you can tell which patients had the doctors who were being supported by prescription drugs companies. Some would be on 16 different kinds of medicines.
I think I just got on a different subject, I tend to do that.
And also thanks for your comment, it is nice to hear especially from a republican not to play into sterotypes but some would make some comment about me being on state insurance. I have worked hard since I found out I was pregnant maybe to make up for what I was getting from the state.

 

[Luissa]

Which is subsidized with Federal Medicaid dollars, right. The federal government already takes care of children through Medicaid. I have empathy for you, being a single mother. Here is why the federal government can't continue to just spend money on every single problem....

YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy

That is what I was stating and maybe I got away from my point when I was saying we need to reform our medicade system. And as for government spending one of places they should reform is welfare system which is good for alittle help. Yes I am a single mother and used some of their program but I have always had a job but I have seen women taking advantage of the programs getting around the system with loop holes. I also had a white male friend who getting food stamps was just sitting on his ass collecting umemployment. They are the ones who make the rest of us look bad. And yes I made choices for me to become a single mother but I wouldn't change those choices now.

 

[jreeves]

That is what I was stating and maybe I got away from my point when I was saying we need to reform our medicade system. And as for government spending one of places they should reform is welfare system which is good for alittle help. Yes I am a single mother and used some of their program but I have always had a job but I have seen women taking advantage of the programs getting around the system with loop holes. I also had a white male friend who getting food stamps was just sitting on his ass collecting umemployment. They are the ones who make the rest of us look bad. And yes I made choices for me to become a single mother but I wouldn't change those choices now.

I agree, we don't need beaucrats running healthcare in this country. They have already showed their efficiency with Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have a $500 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT.

The next president is going to have to raise taxes, thanks to fiscal irresponsiblity of George Bush and the Republican Party.

we have to CUT spending since every president has made government bigger and more expensive.

 

[Care4all]

Isn't there excuses for all budget deficits? I mean Republicans claim the reason for the budget deficits under their control was due to a new threat, Terrorism? I believe that both parties are responsible for our budget deficits.

but Reeves, what did things like the bloated Medicare Pill Bill and no child left behind and a fence that will only cover 1/20th of the border, and tax cuts primarily for the wealthiest have to do with Terrorism? I can understand that the money towards Iraq could be promoted as such but these other things....i really can't....

And yes, spending has to cut!!! And neither side seems to have the wisdom to do such.

 

[dilloduck]

but Reeves, what did things like the bloated Medicare Pill Bill and no child left behind and a fence that will only cover 1/20th of the border, and tax cuts primarily for the wealthiest have to do with Terrorism? I can understand that the money towards Iraq could be promoted as such but these other things....i really can't....

And yes, spending has to cut!!! And neither side seems to have the wisdom to do such.

Sure they do--they just can't agree what to cut .

 

[editec]

A young person that is looking for a career that provides all those things. might I suggest a career in the Military *smiles* just a thought.

Quite right. A military career is just the thing.

One place where young people can still find opportunity for advancement, a fairly decent job with training and best of all?

Socialized medicine

And all one need do is become one of the henchmen and woman in service to the US empire.

But what of the peons, the ones which the Empire no longer needs? The unemployed and unemployable because free trade has made them redudant?

Well, They can just die, can't they?

Exerpt from A Christmas Carol

Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''


``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

 

[Silence]

The over 490 billion dollar deficit came while Democrats held the purse strings.

sorry... that's hysterical... so because THIS year the deficit will reach a record 490 BILLION dollars you'd like to lay that all at the feet of the Dems, who've have had control ON PAPER but not real control since they don't actually have 60 seats needed to end the filibuster happy Repubs blockage of everything.

good one...

 

[Caligirl]

we have to CUT spending since every president has made government bigger and more expensive.

The republicans (who run on cutting spending) seem to have a worse record on budgeting than democrats.

There's other sources if youdon't like that, I just grabbed this one as one of the first hits.

I think people 'don't see debt' but it is an invisible tax that grows and grows. The democrats seem more fiscally reposnisible, certainly since 1970.

 

[sealybobo]

Getting out of Iraq will save us $200 billion dollars a year.

Universal healthcare will save us another $200 billion a year.

So we will save $1.6 billion dollars in Obama's first term.

How much will we save by taking away the tax break to the top 1%?

PS. I just found $500 BILLION dollars last week!!!!

Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers and other Wall Street giants helped foreign investors dodge billions of dollars in U.S. taxes on stock dividends while the IRS looked the other way, a Senate investigation found.

The firms worked with shell hedge funds that had little more than offshore mailing addresses in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere. The funds arranged complex equity swaps and stock loans aimed at circumventing U.S. tax laws, a staff report by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said.

The IRS has neither enforced existing rules prohibiting the transactions nor tried to draft new standards, the 77-page report said.

“These are gimmicks peddled by American financial institutions to deny Uncle Sam taxes owed under our law,” Senator Carl Levin, who heads the panel, told reporters. “The IRS has pussyfooted on this.”

Morgan Stanley enabled foreign clients to avoid payment of more than $300 million in U.S. dividend taxes from 2000 to 2007. (THE SAME TIME THE REPUBLICANS RAN ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT)

Lehman estimated its customer’s eluded payment of as much $115 million in 2004 alone.

UBS helped clients escape payment of $62 million from 2004 to 2007.

 

[editec]

Lehman declared bankruptsy this morning, ya know.

The Fed says they're not going to bail them out.

AIG, a massive insurence company looks to be in serious trouble, too.

What's that smell in the air folks?

Its the smell of panic in the Banking industry, methinks

tick tock!

"For markets, the question is whether the liquidation of Lehman's illiquid assets [...] will force other dealers to mark down the value of their holdings, resulting in another wave of write-downs and fire-sales that could destabilize markets," said BMO Capital Markets analysts.

Analysts also note the economic ramifications of potentially thousands of layoffs from all four firms because of overlapping positions or attempts to streamline the business. And as financial firms tighten their belts, it will also likely mean less lending to individuals and businesses, slowing down economic activity even more.

Ya know how some of our resident Scroogeitarians like to claim that people get into financial trouble because they didn't study hard enouygh in school and didn't study the right things?

Do any of you imagine that the people who lost their jobs today at Lehman were slackers who couldn't do math and had no worth to the market?

I laugh and laugh at you people who have decided to bury you head in the mthology of the american dream, I really do.

I'm betting that a year ago today, 90% of the now unemployed Lehman traders were Scoogeitarians, too.