Challenge: prove the Earth is round

[OohPooPahDoo]

Uhmmm, haven't heard any news of people falling off the edge...
of the earth that is.

lack of evidince isn't evidence

 

[Ernie S.]

Challenge (to you):

Prove the Earth is an approximate sphere without using any evidence gathered since and including the 20th century (so a picture of the Earth doesn't cut it)

Challenge (to me):

I will come up with an alternate explanation that does not involved a spherical earth for every piece of evidence presented.

Lunar eclipse.

The earth makes the shadow on the moon.... the shadow is round.

Alternative explanation:
The same shadow would be cast if the earth were a flat, circular, disc whose face is perpendicular to an imaginary line connecting the sun and moon.

Only works at precisely local midnight. FAIL!

 

[Douger]

The script explains it.
PLUS !
The Hollow Earth Theory - Serious scientific evidence supporting the theory that planets are naturally hollow.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

From the beginning of men taking to the sea in ships, mariners have known the earth is round because as a ship disappears from the horizon, it drops hull first, then sails as it goes around the curve.

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

 

[Ernie S.]

From the beginning of men taking to the sea in ships, mariners have known the earth is round because as a ship disappears from the horizon, it drops hull first, then sails as it goes around the curve.

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

I was right about the mirror. You really are full of yourself, aren't you.

Hmmm edited out the batting average comment, huh?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Challenge (to you):

Prove the Earth is an approximate sphere without using any evidence gathered since and including the 20th century (so a picture of the Earth doesn't cut it)

Challenge (to me):

I will come up with an alternate explanation that does not involved a spherical earth for every piece of evidence presented.

Drop some bread crumbs. Walk in one direction for 25,000 miles. Find bread crumbs.

This would only prove the Earth's surface to be closed. It could be a cylinder. Or a banana.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Challenge (to you):

Prove the Earth is an approximate sphere without using any evidence gathered since and including the 20th century (so a picture of the Earth doesn't cut it)

Challenge (to me):

I will come up with an alternate explanation that does not involved a spherical earth for every piece of evidence presented.

You have seriously lost it. What explanation do you have for the difference between the stars in the northern Hemisphere and those in the Southern and the fact that they rotate in opposite directions?z

Yes - finally - I'm stumped. I'll have to think a bit on that one. You may have me there. If so, I will declare you the winner of the challenge. Give me 24 hrs.

EDIT - Nevermind. Let me think more on this. They dont' actually rotate in opposite directions but I get what you are saying. (Think about it - if you are standing just north of the equator and then step just south of it without changing the direction you are facing, its not like the stars all of a sudden make a 180)

Keep in mind that I have actually seen this.

Circumpolar Stars-Northern Autumn Sky - YouTube

Circumpolar Stars-Southern Winter Sky - YouTube

Or the Lunar eclipse and the Earth's shadow?

The Earth's shadow formed by a Lunar ecipse could just as well be formed if the Earth were a flat disc (see above).

By the way, the Earth is not actually spherical, but it is closer to being spherical than it is flat.

That's why I said "approximate" sphere.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Asimov - The Relativity of Wrong

I read Asimov's book on physics (Understanding Physics) when I was a kid and was very inspired. I consider it my first serious book on physics. All I had read up to then was pop literature (e.g. A Brief History of the Universe) Asimov's book actually starts from the beginning and gets into equations and such - while being extremely entertaining and enlightening to read.

There's a place in his book were he says sort of the same things in the link you posted.

(I should mention I've never actually read any of the work he is known for - his sci fi)

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

So where is the OP with his refutations?
Come on guy! You promised to counter each explanation.

Would it surprise you to know I have a life?

So far I'm 4 for 5 by my count. The only one I can't explain so far with an alternate explanation is the stars rotating different directions by hemisphere.

Three people have said eclipses so far. It surprises me that no one seems to have seen the shape of a phonograph record. Its flat - and it would cast a shadow just like you see in the eclipse if its lined up just right (except there would be a tiny hole in the middle

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Umm cause ships can sail around it and not fall off?

Ships could also sail in big circles on flat discs and not fall off.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I guess i stumped him on a retort about the earths shadow being round on the moon.....

Nahh... it can still be flat.

Like a pizza pie from the cosmos

The earth's shadow would only be round in the moon was directly over head at local midnight. Any other time, the shadow would be oval or a narrow bar shape.

Yes yes yes! I like it. Having trouble beating you there. Give me 24 hrs. You will be challenge winner #2 if I can't come up with a good one.

How thick was the Earth when it was flat? I know that way back when, you could fall off the edge, but could you also dig too deep of a hole?

LOL


EDIT:

I would ask that you look at some pictures of lunar eclipses. Pick one out that you think clearly shows the shadow to be circular. You might find you have trouble. Lunar eclipses don't usually have the sharp features that solar eclipses do - it may be hard to tell a slightly elliptical shadow from a circular one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Challenge (to you):

Prove the Earth is an approximate sphere without using any evidence gathered since and including the 20th century (so a picture of the Earth doesn't cut it)

Challenge (to me):

I will come up with an alternate explanation that does not involved a spherical earth for every piece of evidence presented.

Lunar eclipse.

The earth makes the shadow on the moon.... the shadow is round.

Alternative explanation:
The same shadow would be cast if the earth were a flat, circular, disc whose face is perpendicular to an imaginary line connecting the sun and moon.

That would require the moon, Earth, and sun all to be on the exact same plane, and have circular orbits. That would result in a solar eclipse every 28 days and a lunar eclipse 14 days later. Additionally, all eclipses would be total, there would be no annular eclipses like we had less than two weeks ago right here in California.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From the beginning of men taking to the sea in ships, mariners have known the earth is round because as a ship disappears from the horizon, it drops hull first, then sails as it goes around the curve.

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

Mountains are not made out of water.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

From the beginning of men taking to the sea in ships, mariners have known the earth is round because as a ship disappears from the horizon, it drops hull first, then sails as it goes around the curve.

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

Mountains are not made out of water.

What does that have to do with it?


BTW - I am editing my reply to your post about the stars in opposite directions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Asimov - The Relativity of Wrong

I read Asimov's book on physics (Understanding Physics) when I was a kid and was very inspired. I consider it my first serious book on physics. All I had read up to then was pop literature (e.g. A Brief History of the Universe) Asimov's book actually starts from the beginning and gets into equations and such - while being extremely entertaining and enlightening to read.

There's a place in his book were he says sort of the same things in the link you posted.

(I should mention I've never actually read any of the work he is known for - his sci fi)

You should, it would teach you not to argue flat Earth science with a sci fi geek.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

Mountains are not made out of water.

What does that have to do with it?


BTW - I am editing my reply to your post about the stars in opposite directions.

How does the water form a hill?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Lunar eclipse.

The earth makes the shadow on the moon.... the shadow is round.

Alternative explanation:
The same shadow would be cast if the earth were a flat, circular, disc whose face is perpendicular to an imaginary line connecting the sun and moon.

That would require the moon, Earth, and sun all to be on the exact same plane, and have circular orbits. That would result in a solar eclipse every 28 days and a lunar eclipse 14 days later. Additionally, all eclipses would be total, there would be no annular eclipses like we had less than two weeks ago right here in California.

Nahh, the moon and Sun could be at very slight inclinations off the equatorial plane. The very same reason we don't get a lunar eclipse every full moon and a solar eclipse every new moon with the real world Earth.

If you look at the shadow cast on the moon during a lunar eclipse, its not very sharply defined. it could easily be an ellipse with low ellipticity, and allowing for a small ellipticity is all that is needed to make eclipse frequency less than 1 per 28 days.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

From the beginning of men taking to the sea in ships, mariners have known the earth is round because as a ship disappears from the horizon, it drops hull first, then sails as it goes around the curve.

If I saw a man walk down the opposite face of a moutain from me, his feet would dissappear before his head - does that mean mountains are spheres?


Ships' hulls dissappearing before their sails only proves the Earth's surface has some curvature - it doesn't prove what the overal shape of the Earth is. It could be the shape of a pitcher's mound and the same result would obtain.

I was right about the mirror. You really are full of yourself, aren't you.

Hmmm edited out the batting average comment, huh?

There's no need to be on the defensive all the time. THis is a mental exercise not a trolling expedition.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Alternative explanation:
The same shadow would be cast if the earth were a flat, circular, disc whose face is perpendicular to an imaginary line connecting the sun and moon.

That would require the moon, Earth, and sun all to be on the exact same plane, and have circular orbits. That would result in a solar eclipse every 28 days and a lunar eclipse 14 days later. Additionally, all eclipses would be total, there would be no annular eclipses like we had less than two weeks ago right here in California.

Nahh, the moon and Sun could be at very slight inclinations off the equatorial plane. The very same reason we don't get a lunar eclipse every full moon and a solar eclipse every new moon with the real world Earth.

If you look at the shadow cast on the moon during a lunar eclipse, its not very sharply defined. it could easily be an ellipse with low ellipticity, and allowing for a small ellipticity is all that is needed to make eclipse frequency less than 1 per 28 days.

It looks pretty well defined to me.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIcOrrFDJIw]Entire Lunar Eclipse Time Lapse 8-28-07 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ernie S.]

So where is the OP with his refutations?
Come on guy! You promised to counter each explanation.

Would it surprise you to know I have a life?

So far I'm 4 for 5 by my count. The only one I can't explain so far with an alternate explanation is the stars rotating different directions by hemisphere.

Three people have said eclipses so far. It surprises me that no one seems to have seen the shape of a phonograph record. Its flat - and it would cast a shadow just like you see in the eclipse if its lined up just right (except there would be a tiny hole in the middle

That is an inadequate explanation. The shadow would only be round if the moon was exactly overhead. At any other time, the shadow would be oval to a narrow bar shape. Your counter to Syrenn FAILED.