CDCs “confusing” messaging on vaccines.

[SweetSue92]

Agreed. It’d be one thing IF the vaccines were as safe as any other, and IF they weren’t pushing people who clearly do not need the vaccine to get it. And IF there wasn’t a very safe, very promising alternative out there. At best we’re witnessing some intense cronyism. At this point, with how hard they’re pushing, I’m starting to feel like fucking Alex Jones, wondering what the fuck did y’all put in this vaccine that you want us to take it so bad

This is it in spades. I am NOT given to "conspiracy theories". I really like Occam's Razor. But at this point.....

 

[Lesh]

I am NOT given to "conspiracy theories".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you funny gerl

 

[sakinago]

The study that was withdrawn had far more problems than a few people being mislabeled. Start with the fact that paragraphs were plagerized. Then, that the study was approved after 1/3rd of the people in the study were already dead. Then, they found that the raw data was not aligning with the data that the paper was reporting. The raw data said no one died in the conservative group but the paper said 4, and that 4 died in the ivermectin group but the paper said 2. There were so many dates that were wrong and sometimes impossible, that the entire study needs to be viewed with skepticism. The process of randomization is critical and does not seem to have been adequately done.

Also, the paper was never peer reviewed.

And yes, a British medical student pointed out these errors, as did others. Got a problem with that?

The meta analysis you posted doesn't have 50 studies, it has 24 or so. It also includes a couple of studies from the author that withdrew the above trial (including the withdrawn trial). A good chunk of these are preprint and some of these aren't even available to review. Properly reviewing articles takes hours and hours. The meta analysis itself claims that the only thing that it can claim with moderate grade of accuracy is all cause mortality and the strongest (by far) study showing improvement in mortality was the withdrawn study. I would have had a huge effect on the outcome.

The next most significant trial is the Fonseca trial from Brazil. I'd love to analyze that but there's no manuscript. This is all you get as a citation:

REBEC

RBR-8h7q82 The effect of chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine OR ivermectin in patients with severe manifestations of coronavirus; Public Contact: Allex Jardim Fonseca, Universidade Federal de Roraima; Primary Sponsor: Universidade Federal de Roraima

ensaiosclinicos.gov.br

But maybe it's this paper? Kinda looks like it.

Phase 2 randomized study on chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin in hospitalized patients with severe manifestations of SARS-CoV-2 infection - PubMed

<span><b>Objective</b>: Given the urgent need for strategies to minimize the damage caused by this pandemic, this study performed a randomized, double-blind phase 2 study to assess the safety of the effectiveness of chloroquine (CQ), hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) or ivermectin in severe forms of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Let's take a look at this Kaplan Meier curve:
View attachment 518945

Doesn't look like a winner to me. What do you think? Doesn't line up with the results listed in the meta-analysis whatsoever.

There are better trials ongoing, and maybe they'll show something different, but this just isn't showing an effect.

Quick question. Where’s the control group? I see 3 lines. 1 for CQ HCQ and IVM. I’m honestly looking for the group that didn’t take any of these, but this looks like a 1:1:1 comparison between CQ, HCQ, and IVM. But you wouldn’t post anything with a misleading title like “ivermectin doesn’t work” that leaves out the whole there’s no control group that didn’t take ivermectin to compare too, just other groups that also take drugs that work. I mean, this is the medical community we’re talking about. That type of misleading stuff neeeevvveeerr happens, right? Or at least I used to believe that.

“(4) present a severe form of the disease characterized by one of the following clinical signs: dyspnea, tachypnea (>30 bpm), peripheral oxygen saturation <93% (pulse oximeter evaluation), PaO2/FiO2 ratio <300, or infiltrate pulmonary>50% of the parenchyma seen on chest tomography or chest radiography.”
“The mean value of oxygen saturation in arterial blood gas analysis at admission was 89.9% (± 5.4), without oxygen supplementation. The most common radiological findings on admission chest CT were ground-glass opacity (85.0%) and pulmonary consolidation (68.8%). And 38.1% of the patients had a magnitude of involvement from 25% to 50% of the lung parenchyma”
That’s the inclusion parameters above and below a nice snapshot of the patients conditions. In other words. “Oh hey there person who is about to die. Would you like to participate in this study? Well give ya 4 days of treatment then send ya on your way.” AVERAGE O2 SAT SUB 90% IS DEATHS DOOR. That’s insane. That’s literally blue lips and fingertip level O2 sats and some crazy ass lung damage already done. All these drugs work best early on.

“Almost all participants in the three groups were treated with corticosteroids, most commonly, dexamethasone and methylprednisolone, and approximately one-third of the participants in each group were treated with anticoagulant (enoxaparin 1 mg/kg bid), with no statistically significant difference between them.”

“As per hospital protocol, every patient without contraindication received prophylactic doses of enoxaparin (1 mg/kg once a day)”

This seems like a contradiction unless I’m reading it wrong. It’s sounds like it claims only a 3rd of patients got enoxaparin, but it also says all patients got enoxaparin daily. Granted the doses are different, but hey if that med student got a news article crediting him with point out “contradictions” than I think an RN should too. 2 can play word games. Also, thank god they actually are using medrol, the cortico that actually gets to the lungs where it’s needed. Unlike our NIH recommends. Wish we had that here.

It’s should also be noted that IVM is over the counter in Brazil, and was widely used in the country.

Ivermectina e cloroquina explodem em vendas

Mesmo sem comprovação científica de que poderiam combater a Covid-19, o vermífugo invermectina e a cloroquina, utilizada para malária, artrite reumatoide e lúpus, explodiram em vendas em 2020. A ivermectina cresceu mais de 400% no ano e a cloroquina foi um dos medicamento mais procurados em...

ictq.com.br

Sure they tested for ivermectin beforehand in exclusionary process...but only for 24 hours out. And I think it mentioned some 60% of the total asked didn’t make it in the study because they had taken it.

This also doesn’t mention if the IVM was taken with or without food. Very important for absorption.

And you’re right. I did give you the wrong Meta. Here it is

https://ivmmeta.com/#fig_fpall

 

[Concerned American]

For your Pfizer vaccine, you got:

1. 6 months of "protection"
2. Not much reduction in transmission, if any
3. unpleasant "common" side effects ( "It means your immune system is working!"--but I guess only for 6 months)
4. A chance at a nice collection of nasty side effects: blood clots, myocarditis, Bell's Palsy, GBS, losing limbs

And they still want to talk about vaccine passports! Maybe the unvaccinated need the passports for being impervious to propaganda.

I was taught at a very young age to not believe anything that I heard or read and only half of what I saw. If the last year and a half have been good for nothing else, they have reinforced that lesson and the added lesson of never trusting the government about ANYTHING.

 

[Dekster]

I hope you’re wearing a mask while you’re out for your run!

No way man. I have my butler go ahead of me on his segway spraying Microban on the asphalt so I don't kick up any embeded covid cooties.

 

[Concerned American]

They oversold the effectiveness of the vaccines based on early models and disregarded adverse data until the MSM finally started reporting around the CDC on adverse reactions, break through infections, and certain medications interferring with the development of antibodies. In some ways, the delta variant gives them political cover as they can blame their stonewalling as not stonewalling on the earlier variants but the new one is a "game changer".

Anyway, stock up on masks and lysol. Lockdowns will be coming back after Labor Day and the kiddies are back in school.

And I'll give them the same response as I did last time--none.

 

[sakinago]

This is it in spades. I am NOT given to "conspiracy theories". I really like Occam's Razor. But at this point.....

Well considering the CASE fatality rate, key word being case, for delta is something like .08%, suggesting a way lower infection fatality rate (especially since the main symptom for delta is headache, and how many people actually know that and think COVID when they have a headache)...kind of seems like the powers that be just want this to go on forever. Or at least until the 22 elections. Especially given what Garland just said to states about keeping mail in voting going. That and a combination of some serious and skunk level foul smelling cronyism with phizer, is what occums razor would suggest. Why else set your hair on fire for vaccinations, that won’t work and will likely backfire, for a .08% CFR?

 

[sakinago]

IDENTIFY THE WHITE NOISE....

Not that I expected a single virtue signaling panic porn hugger to reply to that post about Illinois (I'll post again below)
But what you see missing from the media is the single most important fact point throughout this entire pandemic...
Hospitalization rates.
Mortality rates.
Pretty much everything else is white noise and fodder for the panic pushers.
And those numbers above.... they are both well...well...well below last year. It's not even close.
It should be good news. But the virtue signalers don't want good news. You can't claim a moral high ground when everything is good. You have to have a crises in order to create panic.

Now Illinois again.... Did you know Illinois is a Hot Spot???? [shudder, shiver gasp!!]
OMG!!.... pant! pant!.... over 17,000 new cases in the last 14 days... over 1000 a day!!!!!!!!! AUUUGGHHH!!!

But wait... there are only 90 deaths. 90. In the entire state of almost 13,000,000 people. 90.
That is 1/2 of 1% of those who infected died. Including already sick and old.
.005%
And you want to reinstate restrictions, mask... close public places over that???????????

Are you really, honestly that fucking gullible????

.005 is a lot less than a half a percent.

 

[Stann]

Don't know who you're quoting, but I never said I was confused. I know they're lying.

Question............ Of the 100 million or so who haven't been vaccinated, I know a big portion of those people have had covid. Should they be vaccinated also? why? And why is it not being discussed?

Willing to bet your life on that, good luck with that.

 

[Stann]

You people are easily confused. I'd suggest that it might help greatly if you didn't get your news from ZeroHedge.

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE​

Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information; therefore, fact-checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

• Overall, we rate ZeroHedge an extreme right-biased conspiracy website based on the promotion of false/misleading/debunked information that routinely denigrates the left.

I believe in freedom of speech. But I really don't think the founding fathers meant to protect lies. Why are these organizations even allowed to exist, these people put lives in danger why aren't they in prison for public endangerment

 

[Concerned American]

Willing to bet your life on that, good luck with that.

Yep, I have been infected and I trust my immune system much more than a bunch of partisan lying experimental fake vaccine pushers. Ask those servicemembers who were given LSD or infected with Syphilis or exposed to Agent Orange how much you can trust the government, moron.

 

[Kondor3]

A couple of months ago Fauci was on tv talking about how effective the vaccines were. He still wants to claim that. With the caveat that, oh yeah, you’ll have to wear masks even with the vaccine. Last week we had Biden telling us in a press conference that the vaccine will protect us from infection. Huh, well that didn’t last long.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

What’s going on with the vaccine? Well, let me take you back to Biden’s COVID czar, Dr Micheal Olsterholm, on Joe Rogans podcast in March of 2020, before lockdowns. When Joe asked if we could develop a vaccine against COVID, Olsterholm responded in the negative stating that (paraphrase) by the time we create, test, and distribute a vaccine, we will be worried about COVID 2021, not COVID-19. Biden’s own COVID czar.

The numbers for this vaccine are abysmal. Israel, among the top 3 in vaccination rates in the world...huh, our state department has issued a travel advisory because cases are exploding in Israel. UK numbers are awful as well, also leading the world in vaccinations. Sweden, those barbarians that never locked down and rarely masked, whose vaccination rate is abysmal at 30%, a country of 10 million...they haven’t had a COVID death in a couple of weeks.

Here’s an excercise, try to look up the numbers on breakthrough infections youself, see how difficult it is to find that information. You’ll get “breakthroughs happen, but it’s rare and symptoms are mild”...you won’t get raw numbers though. Here’s the hoops I had to jump through to get just a little bit of an idea on the efficacy of these vaccines in Massachusetts, #2 overall in the US as far as vaccination rate over 60%.

I found this article

Massachusetts Has Now Reported More Than 5,000 Breakthrough COVID Infections, 80 Deaths

The rate of fully vaccinated people ending up in the hospital remains low.

boston.cbslocal.com

Subtracted the new breakthrough total from the last weeks listed in the article. Gave me 716 breakthroughs for the week 7/17. Then went onto the state website here

https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-raw-data-july-23-2021/download

To to find new cases total for the week of 7/17, at 1472 (if I remember correctly you can check my math), which gave me a breakthrough infection rate of 48% out of all new cases. Mind you the alpha strain (the strain this vaccine supposedly is effective against) is still in circulation.

There's nothing confusing about it.

As time passes and more data comes in and gets analyzed the position - on both the macro and micro levels - invariably changes.

Generally speaking we are getting the latest thinking on a constantly moving and changing target.

Only myopic fools believe that the position on a lethal pandemic is constant once declared.

 

[Concerned American]

I believe in freedom of speech. But I really don't think the founding fathers meant to protect lies. Why are these organizations even allowed to exist, these people put lives in danger why aren't they in prison for public endangerment

Why are you not calling for the imprisonment of the CEOs of FB, Twitter, Google/YouTube, Amazon--they have been spreading misinformation along with the MSM for years. You don't believe in freedom of speech unless it agrees with your demented outlook.

 

[Stann]

Yep, I have been infected and I trust my immune system much more than a bunch of partisan lying experimental fake vaccine pushers. Ask those servicemembers who were given LSD or infected with Syphilis or exposed to Agent Orange how much you can trust the government, moron.

If you actually believe the things you said here do you have much bigger problems.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

Wait around. Right now cases are plummeting among the unvaccinated in the UK and and RISING among the vaccinated. This is why there has never been a vaccine for coronaviruses before, including SARS. They couldn't find a way to avoid ADE.

Well, great, now we may be seeing in the real world--and you're the test subjects. And WE are crazy for not taking it!!

They haven't avoided ADE with these vaccines either. There are studies showing that higher antibody titres against Sars-CoV-2 correlates with more severe disease in Covid cases, and that the higher antibody titres were not caused by higher viral loads. Hence, the severity of the disease is linked to ADE. Also, we'll never hear this reported in the mainstream news, you'll have to dig up a buried medical paper about it on pubmed at some point, but it's pretty clear what's going on with the increasing numbers of symptomatic Covid-19 cases/hospitalizations in vaccinatated people.

These are non-sterilizing, infection-permissive vaccinations, meaning they induce production of non-neutralizing antibodies/S protein. They're also apparently cross-reactive with heterologous serotypes, specifically in this case, the "Delta variant," most likely causing increased viral replication and disease severity in some vaccinated persons when infected with that variant.

 

[Stann]

A couple of months ago Fauci was on tv talking about how effective the vaccines were. He still wants to claim that. With the caveat that, oh yeah, you’ll have to wear masks even with the vaccine. Last week we had Biden telling us in a press conference that the vaccine will protect us from infection. Huh, well that didn’t last long.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

What’s going on with the vaccine? Well, let me take you back to Biden’s COVID czar, Dr Micheal Olsterholm, on Joe Rogans podcast in March of 2020, before lockdowns. When Joe asked if we could develop a vaccine against COVID, Olsterholm responded in the negative stating that (paraphrase) by the time we create, test, and distribute a vaccine, we will be worried about COVID 2021, not COVID-19. Biden’s own COVID czar.

The numbers for this vaccine are abysmal. Israel, among the top 3 in vaccination rates in the world...huh, our state department has issued a travel advisory because cases are exploding in Israel. UK numbers are awful as well, also leading the world in vaccinations. Sweden, those barbarians that never locked down and rarely masked, whose vaccination rate is abysmal at 30%, a country of 10 million...they haven’t had a COVID death in a couple of weeks.

Here’s an excercise, try to look up the numbers on breakthrough infections youself, see how difficult it is to find that information. You’ll get “breakthroughs happen, but it’s rare and symptoms are mild”...you won’t get raw numbers though. Here’s the hoops I had to jump through to get just a little bit of an idea on the efficacy of these vaccines in Massachusetts, #2 overall in the US as far as vaccination rate over 60%.

I found this article

Massachusetts Has Now Reported More Than 5,000 Breakthrough COVID Infections, 80 Deaths

The rate of fully vaccinated people ending up in the hospital remains low.

boston.cbslocal.com

Subtracted the new breakthrough total from the last weeks listed in the article. Gave me 716 breakthroughs for the week 7/17. Then went onto the state website here

https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-raw-data-july-23-2021/download

To to find new cases total for the week of 7/17, at 1472 (if I remember correctly you can check my math), which gave me a breakthrough infection rate of 48% out of all new cases. Mind you the alpha strain (the strain this vaccine supposedly is effective against) is still in circulation. It's simple, the virus is winning this war.

 

[sakinago]

You people are easily confused. I'd suggest that it might help greatly if you didn't get your news from ZeroHedge.

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE​

Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information; therefore, fact-checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

• Overall, we rate ZeroHedge an extreme right-biased conspiracy website based on the promotion of false/misleading/debunked information that routinely denigrates the left.

Right, the CDC did not flip flop. It was aaalll a conspiracy. They’ve always said you must wear masks even when vaccinated.

Okay quick question. To which I’ve asked many times to many members of the church of fauci and have never received an answer. Still waiting to hear it from Colfax.

Why insist that those who have already recovered from COVID take the vaccine.

 

[Stann]

Are you wholly unaware of what's going on?

THE. VACCINES. DO. NOT. WORK.

Every year

Are you wholly unaware of what's going on?

THE. VACCINES. DO. NOT. WORK.

Every year how many people get the flu vaccine depending on which strain of the flu hits us the vaccine is either very effective or not very effective. The efficacy varies greatly. Covid keeps mutating, the efficacy of the vaccine keeps changing. They still work, but not as well because the virus is getting stronger.

 

[sakinago]

There's nothing confusing about it.

As time passes and more data comes in and gets analyzed the position - on both the macro and micro levels - invariably changes.

Generally speaking we are getting the latest thinking on a constantly moving and changing target.

Only myopic fools believe that the position on a lethal pandemic is constant once declared.

Right... because in the year 2021, we have no clue how vaccines, RNA viruses, micro evolution, and immunity behave. None of this ever could have been predicted.

Biden’s own COVID czar (along with basically the rest of the medical community) totally didn’t call a vaccine not working because it’d mutate. Not to mention we’ve never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus.

 

[Concerned American]

Only myopic fools believe that the position on a lethal pandemic is constant once declared.

So are you backing masks? No? Yes? More than one? What is the moving target on that little piece of the bullshit. Tell me all about myopic fools, moron, you have first hand knowledge.