Causes of Suffering

[Nienna]

I just read this, and I thought it was interesting. Supposedly, there are four types of suffering a Christian experiences:

1) Death to Self- It is very painful to give up your own will and choose to follow Jesus. This is the basic choice in becoming a Christian. God puts us through this to test our will, to make us show Him where our loyalty lies.

2) The Cross-When Jesus carried His cross, he was alone, mocked, and persecuted. Our cross is the persecution, mockery, judgment, and hatred of the people around us, even in our own families, that we incur when we turn away from the world and choose to follow Him.

3) Sin- when we sin, we suffer the heart pain of being separated from God. Sin also has consequences, which we must bear.

4) Refiner's Fire- this type of suffering is "undeserved." This is something that God puts us through to teach us, purify & empty us, to "refine us like gold."

 

[dilloduck]

I just read this, and I thought it was interesting. Supposedly, there are four types of suffering a Christian experiences:

1) Death to Self- It is very painful to give up your own will and choose to follow Jesus. This is the basic choice in becoming a Christian. God puts us through this to test our will, to make us show Him where our loyalty lies.

2) The Cross-When Jesus carried His cross, he was alone, mocked, and persecuted. Our cross is the persecution, mockery, judgment, and hatred of the people around us, even in our own families, that we incur when we turn away from the world and choose to follow Him.

3) Sin- when we sin, we suffer the heart pain of being separated from God. Sin also has consequences, which we must bear.

4) Refiner's Fire- this type of suffering is "undeserved." This is something that God puts us through to teach us, purify & empty us, to "refine us like gold."

Thanks---a pretty good outline to work with !

 

[Annie]

When I saw the title, I thought Mom had moved onto Buddhism! :shocked:

 

[Nienna]

When I saw the title, I thought Mom had moved onto Buddhism! :shocked:

LOL! Not likely. I was bought and paid for!

 

[Annie]

LOL! Not likely. I was bought and paid for!

:teeth:

 

[dilloduck]

When I saw the title, I thought Mom had moved onto Buddhism! :shocked:

There are quite a few similarities between the 2 religions regarding suffering.

 

[no1tovote4]

When I saw the title, I thought Mom had moved onto Buddhism! :shocked:

I hear you!

 

[Annie]

I hear you!

Thanks.

 

[5stringJeff]

I just read this, and I thought it was interesting. Supposedly, there are four types of suffering a Christian experiences:

1) Death to Self- It is very painful to give up your own will and choose to follow Jesus. This is the basic choice in becoming a Christian. God puts us through this to test our will, to make us show Him where our loyalty lies.

2) The Cross-When Jesus carried His cross, he was alone, mocked, and persecuted. Our cross is the persecution, mockery, judgment, and hatred of the people around us, even in our own families, that we incur when we turn away from the world and choose to follow Him.

3) Sin- when we sin, we suffer the heart pain of being separated from God. Sin also has consequences, which we must bear.

4) Refiner's Fire- this type of suffering is "undeserved." This is something that God puts us through to teach us, purify & empty us, to "refine us like gold."

Interesting. I was trying to think of some other common forms of suffering (like death or disease or crime) but most of them stem from sin, and the consequences thereof.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The second of the Four Noble Truths reads:

<blockquote>"And this, monks is the noble truth of the origination of suffering: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming."</blockquote>

As the Buddha swept his hand around him encompassing all he saw, he stated, "All this is empty." Not because it does not exist but, rather, beacuse it has no permanent or eternal existence. The desire or craving to cling to things as if they were permanent or eternal, only to have them slip away, is the cause of suffering.

But, that's just my opinion.

 

[dilloduck]

The second of the Four Noble Truths reads:

<blockquote>"And this, monks is the noble truth of the origination of suffering: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming."</blockquote>

As the Buddha swept his hand around him encompassing all he saw, he stated, "All this is empty." Not because it does not exist but, rather, beacuse it has no permanent or eternal existence. The desire or craving to cling to things as if they were permanent or eternal, only to have them slip away, is the cause of suffering.

But, that's just my opinion.

Ya---Jesus talked alot about the price you pay for becoming too attatched to wordly things too.

 

[no1tovote4]

The second of the Four Noble Truths reads:

<blockquote>"And this, monks is the noble truth of the origination of suffering: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming."</blockquote>

As the Buddha swept his hand around him encompassing all he saw, he stated, "All this is empty." Not because it does not exist but, rather, beacuse it has no permanent or eternal existence. The desire or craving to cling to things as if they were permanent or eternal, only to have them slip away, is the cause of suffering.

But, that's just my opinion.

The Buddha worked to set understanding that suffering began internally rather than from an external cause. Once one becomes aware that it is their own actions and not external causes over which there is no power to change it becomes possible to remove the cause of suffering. Buddha worked to find the cause of suffering like many physicians do today. It is better to treat the cause than it is to treat the symptoms.

 

[Annie]

The second of the Four Noble Truths reads:

<blockquote>"And this, monks is the noble truth of the origination of suffering: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming."</blockquote>

As the Buddha swept his hand around him encompassing all he saw, he stated, "All this is empty." Not because it does not exist but, rather, beacuse it has no permanent or eternal existence. The desire or craving to cling to things as if they were permanent or eternal, only to have them slip away, is the cause of suffering.

But, that's just my opinion.

I'm confused, you say you're Buddhist, granted not perfect. Yet, you proudly proclaim being a DINK. It's all so confusing!

 

[USViking]

I just read this, and I thought it was interesting. Supposedly, there are four types of suffering a Christian experiences:

1) Death to Self- It is very painful to give up your own will and choose to follow Jesus. This is the basic choice in becoming a Christian. God puts us through this to test our will, to make us show Him where our loyalty lies.

2) The Cross-When Jesus carried His cross, he was alone, mocked, and persecuted. Our cross is the persecution, mockery, judgment, and hatred of the people around us, even in our own families, that we incur when we turn away from the world and choose to follow Him.

3) Sin- when we sin, we suffer the heart pain of being separated from God. Sin also has consequences, which we must bear.

4) Refiner's Fire- this type of suffering is "undeserved." This is something that God puts us through to teach us, purify & empty us, to "refine us like gold."

I have a real problem with #4.

For example, in what sense can a two-year-old who dies
of a brain tumor be said to have been "taught, purified", etc.?

The same goes for the two-year-old's family even though
some of them, being adults, may be capable of being taught
in ways a two-year-old cannot.

 

[Joz]

I have a real problem with #4.

For example, in what sense can a two-year-old who dies
of a brain tumor be said to have been "taught, purified", etc.?

The same goes for the two-year-old's family even though
some of them, being adults, may be capable of being taught
in ways a two-year-old cannot.

You know how long I have tho't about this one?
There is a difference in God teaching a lesson and sinful tragedy. The Bible says that it rains on the just the same as the unjust. Sometimes you get caught in the crossfire. And it hurts.

 

[USViking]

I have a real problem with #4.

For example, in what sense can a two-year-old who dies
of a brain tumor be said to have been "taught, purified", etc.?

The same goes for the two-year-old's family even though
some of them, being adults, may be capable of being taught
in ways a two-year-old cannot.

You know how long I have tho't about this one?
There is a difference in God teaching a lesson and sinful tragedy. The Bible says that it rains on the just the same as the unjust. Sometimes you get caught in the crossfire. And it hurts.

I have been thinking of it longer than you. My family lost
my two-year old brother more than 50 years ago to the
condition I describe in my example.

What exactly do you mean by "sinful tragedy" mean when
applied to my example?

My own view is that the sin is exclusively God's and that
the tragedy is exclusively suffered by his innocent children.

Also, I do not think the "rain" and "crossfire" metaphors
are useful. My example focuses on death. The problems
raised when considering the issue of a ethical diety should
be faced head-on by literal accounting of His literal behavior.

 

[dilloduck]

I have been thinking of it longer than you. My family lost
my two-year old brother more than 50 years ago to the
condition I describe in my example.

What exactly do you mean by "sinful tragedy" mean when
applied to my example?

My own view is that the sin is exclusively God's and that
the tragedy is exclusively suffered by his innocent children.

Also, I do not think the "rain" and "crossfire" metaphors
are useful. My example focuses on death. The problems
raised when considering the issue of a ethical diety should
be faced head-on by literal accounting of His literal behavior.

Is being mortal an evil thing? Is there a magic age when death is suddenly understandable? I've done my share of railing against the "unfairness" of being mortal. I'm glad it's over.

 

[musicman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joz
You know how long I have tho't about this one?
There is a difference in God teaching a lesson and sinful tragedy. The Bible says that it rains on the just the same as the unjust. Sometimes you get caught in the crossfire. And it hurts.

I have been thinking of it longer than you

. My family lost
my two-year old brother more than 50 years ago to the
condition I describe in my example.

That's actually a quite unwise thing for you to say. The trouble with conversing on the Internet is that you never really know who you're talking to; the person you presume to lecture on suffering may be acquainted with the concept in ways you dare not even imagine.

I'm sorry about your brother.

 

[no1tovote4]

Is being mortal an evil thing? Is there a magic age when death is suddenly understandable? I've done my share of railing against the "unfairness" of being mortal. I'm glad it's over.

Do you honestly believe that death is the end of it all? If not then mortality really isn't an issue.

 

[dilloduck]

Do you honestly believe that death is the end of it all? If not then mortality really isn't an issue.

I'm not sure but but it was hard to part with the idea of living. It's interesting being aware and stuff like that.