Carter put solar panels on the White House & Reagan took them off

[Old Rocks]

He has one of the most environmentally friendly houses in the country. Or did you miss that fact. His house in Texas is very Eco friendly. It wouldn't surprise me if he demanded it be done.

Bush Loves Ecology -- At Home

Keep up with the hate... It will keep you warm at night.

And approved of changes in regulations that will poison thousands of miles of waterways below open pit coal mines. Bush was a disaster for the environment.

 

[Modbert]

Stay on point or don't bother.

What country is/isn't was/wasn't isn't relevant to the argument. The claim was that since the technology wasn't pursued, it isn't viable today. So the question was: Are you really saying the GOP stopped worldwide research into solar and other alternative energy? Answer that or don't bother.

Well Amanda, do tell us what the GOP did while Reagan was in office to further advance alternative energy and Solar Energy?

 

[Modbert]

He has one of the most environmentally friendly houses in the country. Or did you miss that fact. His house in Texas is very Eco friendly. It wouldn't surprise me if he demanded it be done.

Bush Loves Ecology -- At Home

Keep up with the hate... It will keep you warm at night.

That's great, maybe it will make up 1/whatever of this:

Environment Worsened Under Bush in Many Key Areas, Data Show

Bush team rushes environment policy changes | Environment | Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As the U.S. presidential candidates sprint toward the finish line, the Bush administration is also sprinting to enact environmental policy changes before leaving power.

Whether it's getting wolves off the Endangered Species List, allowing power plants to operate near national parks, loosening regulations for factory farm waste or making it easier for mountaintop coal-mining operations, these proposed changes have found little favor with environmental groups.

Gee, all of those sound like swell ideas huh? It's a good thing we don't have a clusterfuck of a President in office anymore to ignore Global Warming and actually have a President who will do something positive! First thing for the environment would be to reverse all of Bush's "wonderful" policies.

Bush backpedals on environment

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/22brfs-PERMISSIONTO_BRF.html

Last year, the Bush administration, breaking with precedent, denied California the right to establish its own standards in the absence of any federal mandates. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, in his own separate letter to President Obama, urged him to direct the E.P.A. “to act promptly and favorably” on the request.

 

[Amanda]

Stay on point or don't bother.

What country is/isn't was/wasn't isn't relevant to the argument. The claim was that since the technology wasn't pursued, it isn't viable today. So the question was: Are you really saying the GOP stopped worldwide research into solar and other alternative energy? Answer that or don't bother.

Well Amanda, do tell us what the GOP did while Reagan was in office to further advance alternative energy and Solar Energy?

Maybe you didn't read my post... let me reiterate: Stay on point or don't bother.

Let me clarify that for you: I didn't make a claim, I asked for an answer. If you can't answer the question then I have no use for your reply.

 

[manu1959]

The GOP are idiots.

That's why they got voted out of office.

Remember when the Republicans sent that email around showing how Green Bush's home was compared to Al Gore's energy guzzler? They made a HUGE deal over that.

I tried to explain to them that one green home does not make up for Bush's environmental policies.

It is corporate pollution that is causing the most damage. Big deal Bush's home is environmentally friendly when he allows corporations to wreck the entire planet.

snopes.com: A Tale of Two Houses

we can only hope that obama puts all the evil corporations out of business....pity clinton and gore didn't do anything to stop the evil corporations when they were in power.....maybe now we will get things changed.....

 

[michiganFats]

This is all pointless. Carter was obviously making a gesture, as was Reagan. None of it matters because surface level solar collectors will never be viable, and neither will electric cars.

 

[Modbert]

This is all pointless. Carter was obviously making a gesture, as was Reagan. None of it matters because surface level solar collectors will never be viable, and neither will electric cars.

foolish comments.

We would of had them long ago, say 1911. Why don't we? The oil and automobile companies conspired together to buy any patents of such products and destroyed them. A cheap electric car would of destroyed both industries in the sense of making the max profits.

 

[michiganFats]

Foolish comments eh? Lets look at solar tech first. Solar as we are doing it now won't work for one very simple reason, the weather. In order to run a large energy grid you need one thing, consistency. Without it, you get brownouts and blackouts. We may incorporate solar someday, but it won't be based upon any ground level collectors. There is only one place where you are guaranteed constant access to sunlight, and that is outside of the atmosphere. At that point, in order to transfer the energy to the ground, you would have to convert to microwave tech or something like it that isn't affected by weather. in order to do that in a cost effective way, you need limited targets, such as existing energy plants. As long as we can convert them so that microwaves produce the steam that turn the turbines, it's possible and in my humble opinion likely. Another alternative is tidal generators, but that probably won't fly for political reasons. In order to place the generators so that they can turn 24/7, you would have to be in International waters. Not likely to happen, what with the save the whales crap the UN believes in. Electric cars will never happen, so put it out of your mind now. Diesel is much more likely to become the standard. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and since the delivery infrastructure already exists, don't hold your breath waiting for anything else anytime soon. In addition, no matter how efficient electric cars become, we still can't use them on a wide scale because most of them would be recharged at night. Our energy grids recharge at night. If everyone bought an electric car and recharged it at night, we'd crash our grids. I'd like to reduce our dependence on foreign oil as much as the next guy, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is ridiculous.

 

[Chris]

Foolish comments eh? Lets look at solar tech first. Solar as we are doing it now won't work for one very simple reason, the weather. In order to run a large energy grid you need one thing, consistency. Without it, you get brownouts and blackouts. We may incorporate solar someday, but it won't be based upon any ground level collectors. There is only one place where you are guaranteed constant access to sunlight, and that is outside of the atmosphere. At that point, in order to transfer the energy to the ground, you would have to convert to microwave tech or something like it that isn't affected by weather. in order to do that in a cost effective way, you need limited targets, such as existing energy plants. As long as we can convert them so that microwaves produce the steam that turn the turbines, it's possible and in my humble opinion likely. Another alternative is tidal generators, but that probably won't fly for political reasons. In order to place the generators so that they can turn 24/7, you would have to be in International waters. Not likely to happen, what with the save the whales crap the UN believes in. Electric cars will never happen, so put it out of your mind now. Diesel is much more likely to become the standard. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and since the delivery infrastructure already exists, don't hold your breath waiting for anything else anytime soon. In addition, no matter how efficient electric cars become, we still can't use them on a wide scale because most of them would be recharged at night. Our energy grids recharge at night. If everyone bought an electric car and recharged it at night, we'd crash our grids. I'd like to reduce our dependence on foreign oil as much as the next guy, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is ridiculous.

The Israelis are building one solar energy plant which will supply 5% of their energy needs. The Danes already get 20% of their energy from wind. The Israelis are also organizing a series of switching stations for electric cars that would operate like a gas station. You would drive in and switch out your exhausted battery for a fresh one. The Israelis plan on being energy self sufficient by 2030. It can be done. All that is required is the political will.

 

[michiganFats]

Denmark and Israel are two very small nations that do not have the commercial demands on their energy grids that the United States has to deal with. If Wyoming wanted to go solar augmented by wind, maybe they could. The United States as a whole cannot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Foolish comments eh? Lets look at solar tech first. Solar as we are doing it now won't work for one very simple reason, the weather. In order to run a large energy grid you need one thing, consistency. Without it, you get brownouts and blackouts. We may incorporate solar someday, but it won't be based upon any ground level collectors. There is only one place where you are guaranteed constant access to sunlight, and that is outside of the atmosphere. At that point, in order to transfer the energy to the ground, you would have to convert to microwave tech or something like it that isn't affected by weather. in order to do that in a cost effective way, you need limited targets, such as existing energy plants. As long as we can convert them so that microwaves produce the steam that turn the turbines, it's possible and in my humble opinion likely. Another alternative is tidal generators, but that probably won't fly for political reasons. In order to place the generators so that they can turn 24/7, you would have to be in International waters. Not likely to happen, what with the save the whales crap the UN believes in. Electric cars will never happen, so put it out of your mind now. Diesel is much more likely to become the standard. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and since the delivery infrastructure already exists, don't hold your breath waiting for anything else anytime soon. In addition, no matter how efficient electric cars become, we still can't use them on a wide scale because most of them would be recharged at night. Our energy grids recharge at night. If everyone bought an electric car and recharged it at night, we'd crash our grids. I'd like to reduce our dependence on foreign oil as much as the next guy, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is ridiculous.

OK, fats.

Toyota made the electric RAV enticing but it is now unavailable. Ever wonder what a regular old gasoline RAV4 converted into a electric RAV4 would be like? Some folks have taken matters in their own hands. A RAV4 in Oregon converted to electric drive is up on eBay. Take a look.

The NiMH batteries that propel the Toyota-built EV over 100 miles on a charge are, of course, unavailable on the open market. (Wikipedia has an entry on the much-debated "Patent encumbrance of NiMH batteries.") Using lead-acid batteries, this car has less than half that range. But as GM keeps hammering home with its Volt commercials, the average car drives under 40 miles per day. This conversion's claimed range is over 40. The lead acid make this EV affordable compared to the $50,000+ RAV4 EVs that pop up on eBay from time to time. The Buy It Now price is just $22,000.
eBay Find of the Day: Toyota RAV4 electric conversion - AutoblogGreen

The RAV-4 Toyota had a 120 mile range with NiMH batteries. Many people with urban businesses found this a perfect vehicle for them. Some added solar panels to their roofs, and, combining the money that they saved on fuel and heating and cooling their homes, paid for those panels in about 3 years time.

We have the technology right now to produce an excellent all electric vehicle. Many people here in Portland, Oregon are building their own, to the extent that PGE is putting charging stations up for them. The problem is not technology, the problem is will and leadership.

 

[Old Rocks]

Foolish comments eh? Lets look at solar tech first. Solar as we are doing it now won't work for one very simple reason, the weather. In order to run a large energy grid you need one thing, consistency. Without it, you get brownouts and blackouts. We may incorporate solar someday, but it won't be based upon any ground level collectors. There is only one place where you are guaranteed constant access to sunlight, and that is outside of the atmosphere. At that point, in order to transfer the energy to the ground, you would have to convert to microwave tech or something like it that isn't affected by weather. in order to do that in a cost effective way, you need limited targets, such as existing energy plants. As long as we can convert them so that microwaves produce the steam that turn the turbines, it's possible and in my humble opinion likely. Another alternative is tidal generators, but that probably won't fly for political reasons. In order to place the generators so that they can turn 24/7, you would have to be in International waters. Not likely to happen, what with the save the whales crap the UN believes in. Electric cars will never happen, so put it out of your mind now. Diesel is much more likely to become the standard. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and since the delivery infrastructure already exists, don't hold your breath waiting for anything else anytime soon. In addition, no matter how efficient electric cars become, we still can't use them on a wide scale because most of them would be recharged at night. Our energy grids recharge at night. If everyone bought an electric car and recharged it at night, we'd crash our grids. I'd like to reduce our dependence on foreign oil as much as the next guy, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is ridiculous.

Our energy grids do not 'recharge' at night. We just use a lot less energy at night. So solar would be a great help as it delivers power at exactly the time that we need it the most. Another point, is that there is thermal solar which generates power 24-7. And, in places like South Eastern Oregon, you have a very large wind potential, as well as geo-thermal, and solar. And we 'the people' own 99% of that land. All it lacks is a grid to get the energy there to where it is needed. Another point is that there are new methods of generating from alternative sources being investigated every day. The University of Michigan is working with one that looks to be scalable, and gets energy from water currents that are only moving at the rate of 1 to 3 knots.

We have all the energy we can possibly use, without burning either coal or oil. However, it will take leadership to get us off the fossil fuel tit. It looks like we may have that leadership now.

 

[Amanda]

We have the technology right now to produce an excellent all electric vehicle.

Hmmm. So the GOP isn't to blame after all. Couldn't see how that claim had any credibility, but I thank you for putting it to rest.

 

[Old Rocks]

We have the technology right now to produce an excellent all electric vehicle.

Hmmm. So the GOP isn't to blame after all. Couldn't see how that claim had any credibility, but I thank you for putting it to rest.

Chevron and GM are to blame for the fact that the RAV-4 electric is not available here in the US. GM is to blame for failing to follow up on the popularity of it's EV-1. The GOP is only to blame for not providing the leadership to say to these companies that there is a national interest above that of their oil profits. The GOP failed itself, and now the Democrats have the chance to provide that leadership. We shall see what they do.

 

[xsited1]

Solar Panels at the White House « Cooler Planet

In 2003, solar photovoltaic panels were installed at the White House. Two smaller solar thermal systems were also installed to heat water: one for landscape maintenance personnel, the other for the presidential pool and spa.



OMG WHO WAS PRES IN 2003


ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I wonder why solar panels weren't installed at the White House during the Clinton Administration?

 

[garyd]

Ye gods what pure unadulterated idiocy from the left, but then they are leftists so what did I really expect? Carter wanted energy independence? And yet he all but guarateed it wouldn't happen in the forseeable future when he essentially shut down all oil drilling in the US.

Exxon builds wind farms and makes and sells solar panels as well you idiots. My God the Bullshit leftist believe never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Amanda]

The GOP is only to blame for not providing the leadership to say to these companies that there is a national interest above that of their oil profits. The GOP failed itself, and now the Democrats have the chance to provide that leadership. We shall see what they do.

So you're saying the Dems have had their hands tied all this time, and now, finally, they have their chance? You're either giving the GOP a lot of credit for power they don't have or you're giving the Dems one heck of a pass for the last 30 or so years.

 

[Old Rocks]

The GOP is only to blame for not providing the leadership to say to these companies that there is a national interest above that of their oil profits. The GOP failed itself, and now the Democrats have the chance to provide that leadership. We shall see what they do.

So you're saying the Dems have had their hands tied all this time, and now, finally, they have their chance? You're either giving the GOP a lot of credit for power they don't have or you're giving the Dems one heck of a pass for the last 30 or so years.

No one is getting a pass. Clinton should have done far more. And there are plenty of Dems that have no qualms about taking money from the big energy people. As I said, we shall see what they do.

The power to control the money for research is one of the primary drivers of technology. Now before anyone tries the idiocy, fiscal 2006 is done in 2005, still a Republican Congress;


The National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden plans to lay off as many as 100 scientists and researchers, or 11 percent of its total staff, beginning early next month as it faces drastic cuts in its budget.

The fiscal 2006 cuts, estimated at more than $20 million, or 10 percent of its $200 million budget in fiscal 2005, are the result of Congress earmarking or diverting a big chunk of federal funds toward other projects.

In fiscal 2006, Congress cut the Department of Energy's budget for all renewable energy programs by more than 35 percent. As a result, DOE, which funds NREL as well as other national labs, has cut the total amount it will give the lab in Golden. NREL does research in wind, biomass, solar and hydrogen technologies.

"We are going to face a very difficult year at NREL," said Bob Noun, NREL's deputy associate director. "This is a real paradox.

"At a time in which renewable energy enjoys significant bipartisan support in Congress, that very support has spawned all of these projects around the country that have diverted funds from NREL's research programs."

Layoffs in store at NREL : Energy : The Rocky Mountain News

 

[Amanda]

No one is getting a pass. Clinton should have done far more. And there are plenty of Dems that have no qualms about taking money from the big energy people. As I said, we shall see what they do.

No one is getting a pass? Then I shall be quite pleased to post in the thread you start about how Dems have bungled energy policy for the last 30 years and kept the WORLD from making any advances in solar or other alternative energies. This ridiculous thread could really use a counterpart to balance the incredibly partisan malarky that's been posted.

 

[ericwmiller]

"And I bet you that alternative energy makes huge leaps and gains under Obama, now that the GOP aren't around to stop progress."

Actually during Obama the funding and progress has slowed drastically because of inability to turn the economy around. Or wanting to use the chaos to breed hysteric and hasty adoption of burden onto the electorate. to grow the government dah.

Anyway this result two main ways slower economy less money for research. The main reason is that the slow economy results in lower gas prices and less alternative technology being competitive.

I study process engineering of biological fuels and i have see this happen.