Carter and Desert One.

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

The US killed Iranian Democracy.

 

[Dayton3]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.
s
Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

You ignore the obvious: Even if the plan had worked PERFECTLY as planned, it would've been a staggering bloodbath. The U.S. military was privately predicting that something like 30 of the hostages would've died, dozens of the rescue team would've died and HUNDREDS of Iranians would have been killed.

To his credit at least, the U.S. military "forgot" to inform President Carter of these estimates because they knew he would never approve the mission. And after more than half a decade of failures and reverses, every branch of the military desperately "wanted a win".

Note, the death toll projections were detailed in a series of stories in Newsweek in the early 1980s.

In all fairness to those who planned this operation, the alternative they came up with some time later was even worse (how bad? using attached rockets to crash land a C-130 into the Iranian soccer stadium).

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

The US killed Iranian Democracy.

no, that's wrong---the Middle East is only 1 step above shithole Africa....coups/bloody coups/etc post 1950s..etc...just like the Palestinians/US blacks---their culture is self destructive/crap...

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

final--Eagle Claw was a massive embarrassment to the US AND so was how Iran toyed with the US for a YEAR --with Carter handling it all wrong

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

Yes. 82nd Airborne Division. Combat Engineer.

you cooked hot dogs and then got a dishonorable discharge

Not close. But what I would expect from someone who hates women, the Constitution, and of course America.

Oh. And if you were a Marine then Chesty is spinning in his Grave.

ok, so then you cooked potatoes.....I KNOW you---you think you are PERFECT--always bad mouthing the police--as if you would do it all better = a sure sign you are LYING about being in the military

 

[Indeependent]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

I'm sorry, JoeB has already grabbed the "Brown People are stupid and easily manipulated by White People" meme.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

final--Eagle Claw was a massive embarrassment to the US AND so was how Iran toyed with the US for a YEAR --with Carter handling it all wrong

A friend of mine in foreign service worked for the Shah and reported to the US.. About the revolution he said: We were absolutely blindsided.. Everyone in intelligence was too close to the Shah. We thought the student protests were unimportant. Carter had bad intelligence.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

Have you spent a lot of time in the ME..And I don't mean a six month deployment.

 

[Indeependent]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

Have you spent a lot of tie in the ME..And I don't mean a six month deployment.

What a silly question and notion...I've lived in New York State for 60 year and haven't visited 99% of it.

 

[Dayton3]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

final--Eagle Claw was a massive embarrassment to the US AND so was how Iran toyed with the US for a YEAR --with Carter handling it all wrong

A friend of mine in foreign service worked for the Shah and reported to the US.. About the revolution he said: We were absolutely blindsided.. Everyone in intelligence was too close to the Shah. We thought the student protests were unimportant. Carter had bad intelligence.

In all fairness, I've read that the U.S. intelligence and diplomatic services were severely overworked in the late 1970s mainly due to the problems with the Soviet Union

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

Here is some substance. Muhammed was the Anti-Christ. Allah is Satan.

The AntiChrist was probably Nero or Dominitan who persecuted Christians. Muhammed didn't persecute Christians. He said, Be kind to the Christians; they are nearest us in faith.. In fact, The Ethiopian Christian king protected the fist Muslims.

Back away from Hal Lindsey and the idiot futurists.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

Have you spent a lot of tie in the ME..And I don't mean a six month deployment.

What a silly question and notion...I've lived in New York State for 60 year and haven't visited 99% of it.

Why not? NY is a beautiful state. What does that have to do with the Middle East?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Military equipment failure due to sand storms was not Carters fault- unless you believe he is a god and caused them

Inflation"control" is, ostensibly, the Federal Reserves MAIN job-

Gas shortages were inevitable because Nixon made a promise to Saudi Arabia who controls OPEC-

The Iran problem(s) are our very own, beloved CIA's doing from 1953-
Carter is a scape goat for the ignorant, Duopoly Party, loyalists- the acolytes in the congregation of the church of Big GODvernment who vote Party.

best damn post on this thread.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The 444 days ended when Reagan swore the oath.

yep anybody who believes it ended cause reagan was a great president and accomplished what carter could not is a fucking idiot.anybody who knows about the october surprisse knows Reagn and Bush committed treason making a deal with Iran to not release the hostages until After Reagan got elected. Reagan and Bush were fucking criminals who should have been hung by their balls.

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

Have you spent a lot of tie in the ME..And I don't mean a six month deployment.

..you don't know shit do you??
1. Lebanon was a big mess --and still is ....christians killing arabs, vice versa/christians killing christians/arabs killing arabs/etc
2. look at Syria now
3. coups and BLOODY coups for power
4. Iraq was a shithole BEFORE PG1 and 2 -Saadam and his buddies assassinated/bloody coups for politics!!!
5. Mubarak in for THIRTY years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. they are STLL in the Medieval era concerning women's rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
etc etc

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

if carter wasnt such a peanut growing jack ass he would have simply told Tehran the hostages would be released immediately or we would bomb them back to biblical days

And that is what a Strong President does eh? Like Reagan who pulled us out of Beirut after 241 service members were killed?

The problem with threatening force is if they call your bluff, you have to follow through. We didn’t follow through in Vietnam. While a Republican was in office I might add, and there was little chance Congress would authorize unrestricted bombing of Iran indefinitely.

So simplistic and I dare say idiotic ideas such as that are merely childish tantrums.

well done,you took him to school.

 

[Dayton3]

The 444 days ended when Reagan swore the oath.

yep anybody who believes it ended cause reagan was a great president and accomplished what carter could not is a fucking idiot.anybody who knows about the october surprisse knows Reagn and Bush committed treason making a deal with Iran to not release the hostages until After Reagan got elected. Reagan and Bush were fucking criminals who should have been hung by their balls.

Complete idiocy. Despite people looking into it for decades there has never been any evidence that there was an "October Surprise".

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

..undeniable the Middle East is a shithole one step above Africa.....they were never advanced in technology/education/etc ......so 1953 is irrelevant---had no SIGNIFICANT effect on MEast culture and/or Iran...like US blacks, their politics are VIOLENCE/mob rule/etc
YOU are ignorant of history

Have you spent a lot of tie in the ME..And I don't mean a six month deployment.

..you don't know shit do you??
1. Lebanon was a big mess --and still is ....christians killing arabs, vice versa/christians killing christians/arabs killing arabs/etc
2. look at Syria now
3. coups and BLOODY coups for power
4. Iraq was a shithole BEFORE PG1 and 2 -Saadam and his buddies assassinated/bloody coups for politics!!!
5. Mubarak in for THIRTY years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. they are STLL in the Medieval era concerning women's rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
etc etc

Lebanon was the Paris of the Meditterean until the Israelis turned their demographic upside down over night. I take it you know NOTHING about Lebanon either. Lebanon was 50% Arab and 50% Christian.. It worked like a top.

Syria has always had sectarian strife.. and from 2005 to 2011 severe drought, the collapse of the oil sector and the agricultural sector, inflation, unemployent and overpopulation. Syria has been assassination central since the 1950s and oil pipeline sabotage. Taking the Golan Heights made things much worse.

Bibi wanted Syria isolated and detabilized since 1996. Read Clean Break Strategy.. What sort of stupid people want failed states on their borders?

Damascus and Aleppo were home to thousands of Jews since before the birth of Chritst.

Iraq was chugging along under the Dual Containment policy until Bush's big lie.. There were 50 Churches just in Baghdad before Bush's invasion.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

Yes. 82nd Airborne Division. Combat Engineer.

you cooked hot dogs and then got a dishonorable discharge

Not close. But what I would expect from someone who hates women, the Constitution, and of course America.

Oh. And if you were a Marine then Chesty is spinning in his Grave.

ok, so then you cooked potatoes.....I KNOW you---you think you are PERFECT--always bad mouthing the police--as if you would do it all better = a sure sign you are LYING about being in the military

As a Combat Engineer locating Booby Traps that would kill my fellow Paratroopers. I had one chance to get it right. As a Paratrooper. When you leave the plane you have one chance to get it right and deal with any problems.

With both of those I was taught to think. Think and remain calm. Think because if you do the wrong thing you will die.

An example. If your parachute fails you have a reserve. But what about a partial failure? If your chute never opens then pulling your reserve is exactly what you should do. But if you have a partial inversion or Mae West, pulling your reserve will get you very dead.

For that you have to throw your reserve in the direction of spin or into the wind.

Now broken suspension lines. Or Torn sections of Gore. The first thing you have to do is determine if you are falling faster than the other troops around you. If you are then deploy your reserve for a partial malfunction. If you are falling at the same rate do not pull your reserve.

Ok. Situation. You are jumping into a small DZ as part of your training at PLDC. It is a UH-1 blast. In other words you are jumping from a UH-1 Helicopter.

You are number three of six jumpers. You go on the tap. You count to six. Four is for airplanes. Helicopters are not moving as fast you need more time. So six is the count. You are jumping a MC1-1B parachute.

This is a steerable chute. It maintains about six knots of forward speed and can be steered by pulling the control toggles. Pull the left one and you turn left. Pull the right and you turn right.

The chute deploys and you see five suspension lines dangling. You have five lines of 550 cord that have broken. You pull on the toggles and find the left is broken too. You are now under a partial malfunction. You better think fast. You have two thousand feet to the ground to do it right.

After determining that you are not falling faster you pull on the right toggle. Congratulations. You just collapsed your chute. You are dead.

Or you think and realize that the right toggle will cause you problems and let it go. You start to shout to your fellow paratroopers. No control. Broken toggle. No control.

This allows your Mates to avoid you and try and steer clear of you.

Having never been in any sort of emergency before I did it right according to the Jump Officer who investigated. Of course I had three years experience as a Paratrooper by this time.

Later I had another emergency I did not handle as well. And I got hurt. I compressed my spine on the jump.

I got reclassified to another job in the Army. No longer a Combat Engineer. Now I was an Air Traffic Controller. Again. If you aren’t perfect and you don’t think you have Sheet Metal Showers with intermittent bodies. When there is an emergency you can’t make mistakes. People will die.

I was a Radar Controller. When a pilot had an emergency it was my job to talk him down to the ground. Perfectly. First time. He can’t afford a go around with a bad aircraft.

Nobody died when I was a controller. And nobody died when I was clearing Booby Traps in Iraq.

I was not a great Soldier. I wasn’t a great Controller. When I got out of the Army the FAA who was short of people thanked me but said no thanks. I wasn’t good enough for them. I can live with that.

But these standards are the minimum that is expected of Paratroopers and Controllers. I met the standard. I didn’t excellent or exceed them. I was just another troop. I was good. But I was surrounded by people who were just as good. Some were better. Some were a lot better.

Now. Let me ask you this. If we have standards for 18 and 19 year old troops. Kids really. And expect only the best from them. Why can’t we expect that cops will do it right? They’re older.

Remember the crap the Rangers got when it came out that Pat Tilman was killed by friendly fire? Everyone said these are Rangers. They’re supposed to be better than that.

You claim to be a Marine. Would you just shrug and say accidents happen if a Marine shot a fellow Marine? Would his career continue on with no hiccups? Or would his chance at promotions be zero even if he was found to have made an understandable mistake?

I was in California when a lone Marine was left in the field at 29 Palms. They died over the weekend. A simple mistake. Someone forgot to count. The Marines seemed to expect more however. The Squad Leader, Platoon Leader and Sergeant, were all Courts Martialed. The Battalion Commander was Relieved. Why?

Since you say you were a Marine, why were they Relieved? Accident happen don’t they? People are only Human aren’t they?

Were the leaders railroaded? Were they fucked by a political system? Or did they fail to meet the minimum standard for a Marine?

Here is a question. Why do we have such high standards for our Soldiers? I mean. What is the big deal? So what if they kill a few unarmed combatants? Who cares if Friendly Fire claims a few lives? So what if some property gets diverted to enrich someone? Hey. Nobody is perfect right?

This is why I have my doubts that you were a Marine. A Marine in my experience has been men and women of exemplary integrity and honor. Two things you are clearly bereft of.