Carter and Desert One.

[San Souci]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

Your ignorance is profound. You don't kow anything about Sharia Law except what Bibi and Ariel Sharon have fed you. Gotta keep that foreign aid to Israel flowing .. The hell with US taxpayers and the USS Liberty.

 

[San Souci]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

Your ignorance is profound. You don't kow anything about Sharia Law except what Bibi and Ariel Sharon have fed you. Gotta keep that foreign aid to Israel flowing .. The hell with US taxpayers and the USS Liberty.

What Liberty? When you Libs get through it will be like filthy Iran HERE. Or better yet ,Communist China. But that is what ya want.

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

...it was a very complicated [ idiotic] plan that Carter gave the go to....at the Son Tay raid, they refueled in the air--simple
..Eagle Claw was complicated = high chance of failure

..Carter fked up..first he was soft...then when he tried to be hardknocks he went with a really crappy plan with Operation Eagle Claw
...those attacks on the embassies were acts of war.....
....no one wants war or hostage deaths ----but Iran toyed with and humiliated the US for over a YEAR! .....Carter probably should have sent an ultimatum.....with videos of B52s taking off

...I was in the USMC and was on an LPH and LHA.....flew in choppers many times....I flew in the CH 53Es and CH 46s .......flying long routes in even good weather is not optimal for operations

here's more on it USMB

Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-bomb or not

should Carter have handled the crisis differently? the US was humiliated should we have bombed Iran? bombing brought the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table bombing helped bring the Kosovo problem to the table with Iran having a big oil industry--bombing them would've been even more...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

Right. So tell me. How did 241 Military people die in Beirut again? And what was Reagan’s response? Memory seems to say we fled as fast as we could. In six months you couldn’t find an American car in Lebanon. Look up Beirut Bombing.

1. totally irrelevant--try again
2. what could we do??? !!!!!!!!????? nothing....there were so many different groups [ terrorists and others ] /Beirut was a big mess

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

Yes. 82nd Airborne Division. Combat Engineer.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Wow.. You know about Iran.. Very few do.. They just parrot BS about Carter being a "weak" president.

I know enough to realize the population hated us. Any invasion would have been a costly operation. We probably would have had our own Afghanistan in Iran.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

Your ignorance is profound. You don't kow anything about Sharia Law except what Bibi and Ariel Sharon have fed you. Gotta keep that foreign aid to Israel flowing .. The hell with US taxpayers and the USS Liberty.

Here. Our paths must diverge. I am a long time supporter of Israel. And I’m happy to tell you why.

1) Yes Israel sunk the Liberty. Vietnam killed many of our people. Korea saw many die. World War II saw many ships sunk. If I am going to turn my back on Israel about the Liberty I have to Nuke North Korea for the same reason. I have to take a lot of positions I don’t like. I am unwilling to do so. So I believe it is better to forgive.

Otherwise I have to acknowledge that Russia has every right to kill our people because we went after K129 off the coast of Hawaii.

2) Israel has been a friend to us. And generally speaking is the one nation in the region that does not want us slaughtered to the last. Don’t argue it is our support for Israel. Britain is the one who divided up the region creating the animosity we are catching today. Eisenhower pulled Israel and Britain back from Suez and that hasn’t gotten us any goodwill. An imperfect friend is better than a perfect enemy.

3) Negotiations. The position of Israel is they want security. They are willing to try peace but they want security. Palestinian position is they want all Jews dead. Now if we get them to meet in the middle does that mean the Palestinians will accept only half the Jews dead? As long as Palestinian demands include destruction of Israel there can’t be a lasting peace. You would not tolerate a neighbor who’s demand included the death of your entire family.

4) Faith. I believe that the Jews are God’s chosen. I am arrogant. But I do not believe I should begrudge God’s chosen the right to exist in peace.

So I am going to support Israel for Political, practical, and religious reasons. I do not think that Israel is automatically right. There is no right in the mess. No clear moral choice. So in the real world the least worse option is support for Israel.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

Your ignorance is profound. You don't kow anything about Sharia Law except what Bibi and Ariel Sharon have fed you. Gotta keep that foreign aid to Israel flowing .. The hell with US taxpayers and the USS Liberty.

Here. Our paths must diverge. I am a long time supporter of Israel. And I’m happy to tell you why.

1) Yes Israel sunk the Liberty. Vietnam killed many of our people. Korea saw many die. World War II saw many ships sunk. If I am going to turn my back on Israel about the Liberty I have to Nuke North Korea for the same reason. I have to take a lot of positions I don’t like. I am unwilling to do so. So I believe it is better to forgive.

Otherwise I have to acknowledge that Russia has every right to kill our people because we went after K129 off the coast of Hawaii.

2) Israel has been a friend to us. And generally speaking is the one nation in the region that does not want us slaughtered to the last. Don’t argue it is our support for Israel. Britain is the one who divided up the region creating the animosity we are catching today. Eisenhower pulled Israel and Britain back from Suez and that hasn’t gotten us any goodwill. An imperfect friend is better than a perfect enemy.

3) Negotiations. The position of Israel is they want security. They are willing to try peace but they want security. Palestinian position is they want all Jews dead. Now if we get them to meet in the middle does that mean the Palestinians will accept only half the Jews dead? As long as Palestinian demands include destruction of Israel there can’t be a lasting peace. You would not tolerate a neighbor who’s demand included the death of your entire family.

4) Faith. I believe that the Jews are God’s chosen. I am arrogant. But I do not believe I should begrudge God’s chosen the right to exist in peace.

So I am going to support Israel for Political, practical, and religious reasons. I do not think that Israel is automatically right. There is no right in the mess. No clear moral choice. So in the real world the least worse option is support for Israel.

We aren't sending North Korea US foreign aid since 1948.. and NK didn't betray Eisenhower, Reagan and LBJ.

Israel could have chosen peace many years ago. Read Moshe Dayan.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

Then go back and stay there. Iran is like Nazi Germany. And Sharia Law is like Nuremberg Law.

Your ignorance is profound. You don't kow anything about Sharia Law except what Bibi and Ariel Sharon have fed you. Gotta keep that foreign aid to Israel flowing .. The hell with US taxpayers and the USS Liberty.

Here. Our paths must diverge. I am a long time supporter of Israel. And I’m happy to tell you why.

1) Yes Israel sunk the Liberty. Vietnam killed many of our people. Korea saw many die. World War II saw many ships sunk. If I am going to turn my back on Israel about the Liberty I have to Nuke North Korea for the same reason. I have to take a lot of positions I don’t like. I am unwilling to do so. So I believe it is better to forgive.

Otherwise I have to acknowledge that Russia has every right to kill our people because we went after K129 off the coast of Hawaii.

2) Israel has been a friend to us. And generally speaking is the one nation in the region that does not want us slaughtered to the last. Don’t argue it is our support for Israel. Britain is the one who divided up the region creating the animosity we are catching today. Eisenhower pulled Israel and Britain back from Suez and that hasn’t gotten us any goodwill. An imperfect friend is better than a perfect enemy.

3) Negotiations. The position of Israel is they want security. They are willing to try peace but they want security. Palestinian position is they want all Jews dead. Now if we get them to meet in the middle does that mean the Palestinians will accept only half the Jews dead? As long as Palestinian demands include destruction of Israel there can’t be a lasting peace. You would not tolerate a neighbor who’s demand included the death of your entire family.

4) Faith. I believe that the Jews are God’s chosen. I am arrogant. But I do not believe I should begrudge God’s chosen the right to exist in peace.

So I am going to support Israel for Political, practical, and religious reasons. I do not think that Israel is automatically right. There is no right in the mess. No clear moral choice. So in the real world the least worse option is support for Israel.

We aren't sending North Korea US foreign aid since 1948.. and NK didn't betray Eisenhower, Reagan and LBJ.

Israel could have chosen peace many years ago. Read Moshe Dayan.

Actually we do send North Korea aid.

We sent aid in 2019. A million dollars. Not much grant you. But they are still an enemy we have a shaky cease fire with. We sent more aid in 2020. And I think we are or have sent some this year.

We sent them a lot of aid to prevent their development of nuclear weapons. We sent food and humanitarian relief to them during pretty much every administration at some point.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

...it was a very complicated [ idiotic] plan that Carter gave the go to....at the Son Tay raid, they refueled in the air--simple
..Eagle Claw was complicated = high chance of failure

..Carter fked up..first he was soft...then when he tried to be hardknocks he went with a really crappy plan with Operation Eagle Claw
...those attacks on the embassies were acts of war.....
....no one wants war or hostage deaths ----but Iran toyed with and humiliated the US for over a YEAR! .....Carter probably should have sent an ultimatum.....with videos of B52s taking off

...I was in the USMC and was on an LPH and LHA.....flew in choppers many times....I flew in the CH 53Es and CH 46s .......flying long routes in even good weather is not optimal for operations

here's more on it USMB

Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-bomb or not

should Carter have handled the crisis differently? the US was humiliated should we have bombed Iran? bombing brought the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table bombing helped bring the Kosovo problem to the table with Iran having a big oil industry--bombing them would've been even more...

www.usmessageboard.com

Carter did not design the plan. The plan was developed by the Generals with Charles Beckworth who was legendary.

Yes. The plan had a lot of flaws. And yes it was overly complicated. But no plan was really going to work.

Intimidation would not work. It rarely does. And it never works with religious zealots who believe they are doing God’s will. See Waco, Jonestown, and a host of other historical events.

Bombing. Bombing is of limited success historically. Britain was bombed halfway back to the Roman Era and did not surrender or even bow. Germany was bombed until their city’s were rubble. And then no bed again to make the rubble dance. The Japanese Military revolted when Hirohito decided to pull the plug.

Bombing North Korea and Chinese forces didn’t do squat. No serious negotiations took place until Stalin died.

Terrorists blew up Khobar Towers and we didn’t flee Saudi.

And if bombing really worked that well the Taliban would not be in effective control of Afghanistan. Hamas would be a footnote in history instead of a Government Terrorist Organization.

Bombing Iran would have just gotten the hostages killed. And we would have a much more active enemy than we do now. And remember that Saddam was our friend because he was fighting Iran. We armed him to help him fight Iranian Extremists. At the same time we were selling weapons to Iran to find the South American rebels. Iran Contra?

Carter showed balls the size of Grapefruit in ordering the mission to go. He knew it was risky. But he went with it anyway. If it had worked. Carter would have gotten the second term and Reagan would have been a footnote in history.

As it was we saw Reagan as President with all the good and bad that followed. And yes. There was good and bad.

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

...it was a very complicated [ idiotic] plan that Carter gave the go to....at the Son Tay raid, they refueled in the air--simple
..Eagle Claw was complicated = high chance of failure

..Carter fked up..first he was soft...then when he tried to be hardknocks he went with a really crappy plan with Operation Eagle Claw
...those attacks on the embassies were acts of war.....
....no one wants war or hostage deaths ----but Iran toyed with and humiliated the US for over a YEAR! .....Carter probably should have sent an ultimatum.....with videos of B52s taking off

...I was in the USMC and was on an LPH and LHA.....flew in choppers many times....I flew in the CH 53Es and CH 46s .......flying long routes in even good weather is not optimal for operations

here's more on it USMB

Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-bomb or not

should Carter have handled the crisis differently? the US was humiliated should we have bombed Iran? bombing brought the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table bombing helped bring the Kosovo problem to the table with Iran having a big oil industry--bombing them would've been even more...

www.usmessageboard.com

Carter did not design the plan. The plan was developed by the Generals with Charles Beckworth who was legendary.

Yes. The plan had a lot of flaws. And yes it was overly complicated. But no plan was really going to work.

Intimidation would not work. It rarely does. And it never works with religious zealots who believe they are doing God’s will. See Waco, Jonestown, and a host of other historical events.

Bombing. Bombing is of limited success historically. Britain was bombed halfway back to the Roman Era and did not surrender or even bow. Germany was bombed until their city’s were rubble. And then no bed again to make the rubble dance. The Japanese Military revolted when Hirohito decided to pull the plug.

Bombing North Korea and Chinese forces didn’t do squat. No serious negotiations took place until Stalin died.

Terrorists blew up Khobar Towers and we didn’t flee Saudi.

And if bombing really worked that well the Taliban would not be in effective control of Afghanistan. Hamas would be a footnote in history instead of a Government Terrorist Organization.

Bombing Iran would have just gotten the hostages killed. And we would have a much more active enemy than we do now. And remember that Saddam was our friend because he was fighting Iran. We armed him to help him fight Iranian Extremists. At the same time we were selling weapons to Iran to find the South American rebels. Iran Contra?

Carter showed balls the size of Grapefruit in ordering the mission to go. He knew it was risky. But he went with it anyway. If it had worked. Carter would have gotten the second term and Reagan would have been a footnote in history.

As it was we saw Reagan as President with all the good and bad that followed. And yes. There was good and bad.

..Carter was the CIC = he is ultimately responsible..he was an idiot
...'''''But no plan was really going to work.''''--HHAHAHAHAh YES YES!!!!
..''legendary''--so was Montgomery/Custer/etc--but they made many mistakes and failures
..bombing was not to free the hostages per se...it's part of a campaign
..we know you--you are Mr Perfect --that never makes a mistake/etc = you were discredited long ago --you LOVE Carter and HATE police !!!!!!!!
...Bombing stopped the Bosnian crap

Operation Deliberate Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[harmonica]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

Yes. 82nd Airborne Division. Combat Engineer.

you cooked hot dogs and then got a dishonorable discharge

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

...it was a very complicated [ idiotic] plan that Carter gave the go to....at the Son Tay raid, they refueled in the air--simple
..Eagle Claw was complicated = high chance of failure

..Carter fked up..first he was soft...then when he tried to be hardknocks he went with a really crappy plan with Operation Eagle Claw
...those attacks on the embassies were acts of war.....
....no one wants war or hostage deaths ----but Iran toyed with and humiliated the US for over a YEAR! .....Carter probably should have sent an ultimatum.....with videos of B52s taking off

...I was in the USMC and was on an LPH and LHA.....flew in choppers many times....I flew in the CH 53Es and CH 46s .......flying long routes in even good weather is not optimal for operations

here's more on it USMB

Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-bomb or not

should Carter have handled the crisis differently? the US was humiliated should we have bombed Iran? bombing brought the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table bombing helped bring the Kosovo problem to the table with Iran having a big oil industry--bombing them would've been even more...

www.usmessageboard.com

Carter did not design the plan. The plan was developed by the Generals with Charles Beckworth who was legendary.

Yes. The plan had a lot of flaws. And yes it was overly complicated. But no plan was really going to work.

Intimidation would not work. It rarely does. And it never works with religious zealots who believe they are doing God’s will. See Waco, Jonestown, and a host of other historical events.

Bombing. Bombing is of limited success historically. Britain was bombed halfway back to the Roman Era and did not surrender or even bow. Germany was bombed until their city’s were rubble. And then no bed again to make the rubble dance. The Japanese Military revolted when Hirohito decided to pull the plug.

Bombing North Korea and Chinese forces didn’t do squat. No serious negotiations took place until Stalin died.

Terrorists blew up Khobar Towers and we didn’t flee Saudi.

And if bombing really worked that well the Taliban would not be in effective control of Afghanistan. Hamas would be a footnote in history instead of a Government Terrorist Organization.

Bombing Iran would have just gotten the hostages killed. And we would have a much more active enemy than we do now. And remember that Saddam was our friend because he was fighting Iran. We armed him to help him fight Iranian Extremists. At the same time we were selling weapons to Iran to find the South American rebels. Iran Contra?

Carter showed balls the size of Grapefruit in ordering the mission to go. He knew it was risky. But he went with it anyway. If it had worked. Carter would have gotten the second term and Reagan would have been a footnote in history.

As it was we saw Reagan as President with all the good and bad that followed. And yes. There was good and bad.

..Carter was the CIC = he is ultimately responsible..he was an idiot
...'''''But no plan was really going to work.''''--HHAHAHAHAh YES YES!!!!
..''legendary''--so was Montgomery/Custer/etc--but they made many mistakes and failures
..bombing was not to free the hostages per se...it's part of a campaign
..we know you--you are Mr Perfect --that never makes a mistake/etc = you were discredited long ago --you LOVE Carter and HATE police !!!!!!!!
...Bombing stopped the Bosnian crap

Operation Deliberate Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are among the dumbest of all people I’ve ever read here. And that is saying something.

I’ve said Cops were justified in certain shootings. An honest and fair assessment. But no not to you. I am required to support every action by the police or I hate them. Fine.

I think Carter made some mistakes. I don’t think the order for Desert One was one of those mistakes. I also think Reagan made mistakes. And I can say that about every administration.

You are the one full of hate. And you accuse others of this same thing because you refuse to admit you are an immoral swine.

 

[SavannahMann]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over his handling of the Iran Hostage situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

Yes. 82nd Airborne Division. Combat Engineer.

you cooked hot dogs and then got a dishonorable discharge

Not close. But what I would expect from someone who hates women, the Constitution, and of course America.

Oh. And if you were a Marine then Chesty is spinning in his Grave.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

 

[San Souci]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

Here is some substance. Muhammed was the Anti-Christ. Allah is Satan.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

Here is some substance. Muhammed was the Anti-Christ. Allah is Satan.

And this ^^^ is an idiot-gram, variety off topic and ludicrous.

 

[surada]

Many people consider President Carter a weak President. Mainly over
age situation. But IMO that is unfair.

Almost immediately the Military began planning and training for the rescue operation. Charlie Beckworth who was one of the finest Soldiers in history led the planning and mission. He formed Delta. He made the Green Berets better than it was imagined they could be. The man was and is a legend.

So what happened? Well. Everything that could go wrong. Went wrong. Mr. Murphy stepped in and every sort of bad luck you could have joined the mission.

What did not happen? Carter did not limit the plan to a handful of Helicopters. The plan required six helicopters. The Army added one to the plan to make sure there was a spare. Carter added another one ordering two spares.

So what happened? A helicopter broke down on the way in. An emergency landing. And the crew transferred to another bird. This helicopter flew into a Haboob. A dust storm. The resulting dust created a situation where the instruments began to malfunction. So the pilots could not see and could not fly by instruments. They aborted and returned to the carrier.

Now we are at the minimum number. On the ground everything is going wrong. A nearly abandoned road is quite busy. Then the helicopters arrive. Only six. The bare minimum to pull the mission off.

One of the helicopters had a bad hydronic pump. If it was flown again it would have seized and the bird would crash. It is down. It can’t fly. The result will be certain death for the people.

Now we are below the minimum number. The mission is aborted.

Reasons for the failures? The technology didn’t exist for air crew night vision goggles. The ones they were using were the best available. But they were intended for keep drivers. Not pilots. Not training the entire force together as one unit. No familiarity with desert flying. Brownout is well known now. It wasn’t well known then.

In the end it was the best plan put forth by our Military. Including some of the most respected officers of the era. And Carter told them if it succeeded they would get the credit. If it failed he was out.

There was no other plan. No other realistic option. We could not invade Iran. We didn’t have the troops. And we would have lost tens of thousands in the attempt. Unleashing the bombers would have gotten the hostages killed for sure.

Now to the final point. In the decades since. None of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks have come up with another idea that would have worked.

Carter should have DEMANDED return of those hostages or Tehran gets bombed. No other option. Also he should have had the Ayatollah assassinated. But he WAS weak. Don't forget the runaway inflation and Gas lines. Besides ,Carter was the ORIGINAL planner of the Sub-Prime LENDING that almost bankrupted the USA in 2008.

How'd the killing of the Iranian General work out?

The more Iranians killed ,the better/ Time you traitors figured out Iran is an ENEMY.

You seem to operate under this mistaken belief that war is bloodless. To the men maimed and wounded. It certainly is not. To the families of the fallen. I can assure you that patriotic zeal does not assuage the grief of their loss. The men and women in Uniform are not thrilled to no end to die in a loud grotesque military manner.

Ever been in a War,Son?

You ever been to Iran, son?

Vietnam. Also went to see relatives right after Yom Kippur War. Was NOT pretty. Iran is the enemy. Need to be exterminated.

I have been to Iran many times.. The US has screwed them over and made ever sort of stupid blunder since 1953..

1. so because of 1953, that gives them the right to commit war crimes in 1979???!!!
2. they are shitheads, one step above the Africans --the revolutionaries complained about SAVAK..so what do the reveloutionaries do?? = they murdered/executed people !!!!!

You don't understand and are ignorant of what went on in '53 and for decades after that.

Here is some substance. Muhammed was the Anti-Christ. Allah is Satan.

You know Allah is god in Arabic.. like Gott in German or Dios. Jesus didn't speak English.