CDZ Canada to legalise recreational pot:pros and cons

[usmbguest5318]

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

It's just a fact hood rats are more violent and kill people over money, or tennis shoes, or just for fun, so you'll just have to accept reality as it is.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

The 'libertoons' are always telling us stuff like 'legalizing it will reduce crime n stuff', but it's doubtful, and for some reason they think it's not the same as just legalizing rape, robbery, murder, and the like, even though legalizing all that would certainly reduce crime if it were legalized, too.

If the black market diminished, why wouldn't crime go down?
Are criminals out there killing people over black market liquor?
If weed was legal and not taxed to high heaven, what incentive would the cartels have to ship stuff over here?

If the black market diminished, why wouldn't crime go down?

By definition, a reduction in the size, scope and activity of the black market must necessarily be a reduction in crime activity/rates.

 

[Syriusly]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

How is it a 'surrender to the issue of drug abuse'?

Do you think that legal alcohol or legal cigarettes are just a surrender to drug abuse?

What Canada is doing is a rational response to their citizens desire to use a recreational drug- no different than alcohol or cigarettes.

Yes there will be repercussions- and Canada will deal with them- just as the United States dealt with the repercussions of the end of the Prohibition.

Overall though, it will be a good thing.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I will just argue. I'm going to say the war on drugs has been a success.

There are plenty of people in jail for using drugs which the population deemed dangerous.

The town has its fair share of crack houses, meth labs and what not. Generally though people who can't function with their drug problem end up in prison.

With drugs illegal employees who hurt themselves fail urine tests and don't get to game the system quite as easily.

Are we drug free? I dunno. Drugs seem to be a condition people who aren't happy with their lives will always fall back into.

That sunset not good enough? The best mother nature or your wife has to offer, not enough? Get high, make it better.

Really I can live with legalized pot and alcohol as long as we can take the "right to use" away from people the second time they mess up stoned or drunk.

I will just argue. I'm going to say the war on drugs has been a success.

Really?

• What were/are the officially stated goals of that "war?"
• To what extent have they been achieved?

Are we drug free? I dunno.

What? Really? Do you not see the discursive absurdity, and the corresponding diminution of your credibility, in arguing that the "war on drugs has been a success" and -- in the very same "essay," no less -- attesting to not knowing whether we are "drug free," or the measured extent to which we are or are not?

 

[Syriusly]

Colorado is a Rocky Mountain state that legalized pot.

The state is making a lot of money on excise taxes on the pot.

The other Rocky Mountain states are not likely to follow in their footsteps however, at least not anytime soon.

The religious environment here (Mormon, Catholic, etc.) does not favor it.

Has there been any impact on crime rates, etc since the legislation?

There have been several big explosions that killed morons trying to make hash, thanks to the big increase in availability of pot. you see, morons will screw up anything, literally anything, so legalizing drug use for idiots is never going to be the Big Giant Positive the Beavises and Buttheads want everybody to believe. You can bet there are even more Stoners Do Science! travesties on the way.

Yep- legalizing alcohol use didn't solve cancer, or end all deaths from alcohol.

But those of us who have read our history can see the direct parallels to the evils of Prohibition- and learn from them- and then there are people like you.

 

[Syriusly]

The 'libertoons' are always telling us stuff like 'legalizing it will reduce crime n stuff', but it's doubtful, and for some reason they think it's not the same as just legalizing rape, robbery, murder, and the like, even though legalizing all that would certainly reduce crime if it were legalized, too.

The "Big Brother must protect us toons" keep telling us to keep doing the same drug war will somehow protect us- from the murders and theft that are caused by the Drug war.

Why are you so determined that Big Brother knows better than you- or I do- when it comes to the consumption of pot- or alcohol?

 

[Syriusly]

I have been smoking pot for 15 years. Did coke from age 20 to almost 22. Fairly heavily too. Me and my buddy spent around 150-200 bucks a week on it.
Neither one of us are addicted.
I will have my house paid off in 6 years, my newer truck in 3, got one truck paid for, my Harley is paid for, my beautiful family needs nothing and we have a decent life. Actually, we are taking the kids to the beach for their first times next month. And we will take another vacation in the fall.
Maybe I am a rarity, but im not

People have to get away from the mindset that pot is like heroin or crack- and think of pot more like alcohol.

We all know people who have a glass of wine or a bottle of beer a day- and are successful. Why would anyone be surprised that someone who has takes a toke or two a day can also be successful?

 

[kellyd]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I'm apprehensive about responding to the OP above for seeing loaded language like "surrender to the issue of drug abuse" does not suggest the OP actually wants, as stipulated in the thread title, a factually dispassionate discussion of pros and cons. Instead, it intimates that s/he has an axe to grind, for the pros and cons, along with comparisons and descriptions of various jurisdictions' policy and legalization terms, are widely available from myriad sources on the Internet.

• Comparing legal marijuana systems in Colorado and Washington
  
• Washington’s Marijuana Legalization Grows Knowledge, Not Just Pot: A Report on the State’s Strategy to Assess Reform
  
• Marijuana
• Weed pass sparks new problems (Holland)
  
• Legalization is a balancing act
  
• 60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
  
• Marijuana and Your Health: What 20 Years of Research Reveals
  
• Legal status of cannabis around the world - map (as of 2014)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Legality of cannabis by country (I don't know how current be the information here.)
  
• Options for Gleaning Revenue from Legal Cannabis
  
• An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects of Legal Clinical Cannabis
  
• Design considerations for legalizing cannabis: lessons inspired by analysis of California’s Proposition 19
  
• New regulated markets for recreational cannabis: public health or private profit?
  
• Assessing the Public Health Impacts of Legalizing Recreational Cannabis Use in the USA
  
• Interpreting Dutch Cannabis Policy: Reasoning by Analogy in the Legalization Debate -- This paper isn't expressly about marijuana legalization. Rather it is about the pitfalls of and rational limits to using Holland's experiences as an analogy for what other nations may or may not observe were they to follow Holland's model.
• EVALUATING CANNABIS LEGALIZATION
  
• Obstacles to a Regulated Cannabis Market (Canada)
• Uruguay’s Drug Policy: Major Innovations, Major Challenges (Unrelated: If you ever bother to go to Buenos Aires, extend the trip by a couple days to allow yourself time to go to Montevideo as well, or vice versa if you plan a trip to or find yourself in Montevideo.)

Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

The specific ideas I would share can be found in or inferred from the linked content above, and I have nothing new or different to add to that content that directly addresses the matter of cannabis legalization, its incidence and impacts.

Overall, I favor legalizing marijuana use and possession, or at least decriminalizing it. [1] I have a concern about marijuana's "gateway effect," but I also don't cotton to the principle of protecting individuals (adults) from themselves, so I weigh that concern as very low among the reasons for not legalizing/decriminalizing cannabis. I might assign greater weight to the concern and its consequences were cannabis as addictive as is nicotine [2], but it is not. Moreover, it's not clear to me that, and the extent that, the "gateway effect" of cannabis derives from its being "forbidden fruit." [3]


What strikes me as "special" about Canada and its legalization of cannabis, thus what I suspect gives rise to the somewhat vocal concerns and discussion of Canada's stance on the matter, is that among nations that (would) grant legal status to cannabis, or that have a laissez faire approach (in law and in law enforcement) to it and its users, Canada abuts the U.S., and travel by "typical Americans" between the two countries is relatively frequent and common. In contrast, not many "typical Americans" go to, or go often to, Spain, Iran or Uruguay, or the Netherlands, where "Mary Jane" is legally obtainable for recreational purposes by non-citizens in some jurisdictions and not in others.

Note:

1. I think the distinction between "legal" and "decriminalized" substances, objects and behaviors is absurd, but nobody solicited me in the fabrication and "socialization" of that distinction, so it exists widely enough that it is "a thing" now, and I therefore acquiesce to the accepted distinction.
   
2. Linked table is part of this study: Comparative risk assessment of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and other illicit drugs using the margin of exposure approach
3. Thinking back to my youth, my peers who were inclined to drink a lot and later, when they could legally buy booze, did drink a lot, were the kids whose parents made a big deal about their kids not drinking alcohol. My own parents never locked or stored the hootch away from my reach or sight and routinely allowed me a sip or two of it when they were drinking it and at "special occasion" dinners.
   
   didn't, at the time, care much for the taste of most alcoholic beverages I encountered, especially beer, so it wasn't a big deal for me to not drink much of it later in my life. (The very sweet wine served at church with communion was okay, but that isn't what my parents had at home.) It took only one college instance of my over imbibing, thus progressing from "buzzed" to "wasted," for me to know I was not ever going to let that happen again, for I didn't enjoy it. In fact, I thought, "why do people actually do this on purpose."

I didn't mean that I necessarily had an axe to grind against the legalisation of cannabis, I was merely trying to present the idea that it represents an admission of failure against the so-called war on drugs. I am personally pro legalisation, as I see great harm passed down to offenders against the law. Most Canadians support legalisation for this reason

 

[usmbguest5318]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I'm apprehensive about responding to the OP above for seeing loaded language like "surrender to the issue of drug abuse" does not suggest the OP actually wants, as stipulated in the thread title, a factually dispassionate discussion of pros and cons. Instead, it intimates that s/he has an axe to grind, for the pros and cons, along with comparisons and descriptions of various jurisdictions' policy and legalization terms, are widely available from myriad sources on the Internet.

• Comparing legal marijuana systems in Colorado and Washington
  
• Washington’s Marijuana Legalization Grows Knowledge, Not Just Pot: A Report on the State’s Strategy to Assess Reform
  
• Marijuana
• Weed pass sparks new problems (Holland)
  
• Legalization is a balancing act
  
• 60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
  
• Marijuana and Your Health: What 20 Years of Research Reveals
  
• Legal status of cannabis around the world - map (as of 2014)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Legality of cannabis by country (I don't know how current be the information here.)
  
• Options for Gleaning Revenue from Legal Cannabis
  
• An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects of Legal Clinical Cannabis
  
• Design considerations for legalizing cannabis: lessons inspired by analysis of California’s Proposition 19
  
• New regulated markets for recreational cannabis: public health or private profit?
  
• Assessing the Public Health Impacts of Legalizing Recreational Cannabis Use in the USA
  
• Interpreting Dutch Cannabis Policy: Reasoning by Analogy in the Legalization Debate -- This paper isn't expressly about marijuana legalization. Rather it is about the pitfalls of and rational limits to using Holland's experiences as an analogy for what other nations may or may not observe were they to follow Holland's model.
• EVALUATING CANNABIS LEGALIZATION
  
• Obstacles to a Regulated Cannabis Market (Canada)
• Uruguay’s Drug Policy: Major Innovations, Major Challenges (Unrelated: If you ever bother to go to Buenos Aires, extend the trip by a couple days to allow yourself time to go to Montevideo as well, or vice versa if you plan a trip to or find yourself in Montevideo.)

Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

The specific ideas I would share can be found in or inferred from the linked content above, and I have nothing new or different to add to that content that directly addresses the matter of cannabis legalization, its incidence and impacts.

Overall, I favor legalizing marijuana use and possession, or at least decriminalizing it. [1] I have a concern about marijuana's "gateway effect," but I also don't cotton to the principle of protecting individuals (adults) from themselves, so I weigh that concern as very low among the reasons for not legalizing/decriminalizing cannabis. I might assign greater weight to the concern and its consequences were cannabis as addictive as is nicotine [2], but it is not. Moreover, it's not clear to me that, and the extent that, the "gateway effect" of cannabis derives from its being "forbidden fruit." [3]


What strikes me as "special" about Canada and its legalization of cannabis, thus what I suspect gives rise to the somewhat vocal concerns and discussion of Canada's stance on the matter, is that among nations that (would) grant legal status to cannabis, or that have a laissez faire approach (in law and in law enforcement) to it and its users, Canada abuts the U.S., and travel by "typical Americans" between the two countries is relatively frequent and common. In contrast, not many "typical Americans" go to, or go often to, Spain, Iran or Uruguay, or the Netherlands, where "Mary Jane" is legally obtainable for recreational purposes by non-citizens in some jurisdictions and not in others.

Note:

1. I think the distinction between "legal" and "decriminalized" substances, objects and behaviors is absurd, but nobody solicited me in the fabrication and "socialization" of that distinction, so it exists widely enough that it is "a thing" now, and I therefore acquiesce to the accepted distinction.
   
2. Linked table is part of this study: Comparative risk assessment of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and other illicit drugs using the margin of exposure approach
3. Thinking back to my youth, my peers who were inclined to drink a lot and later, when they could legally buy booze, did drink a lot, were the kids whose parents made a big deal about their kids not drinking alcohol. My own parents never locked or stored the hootch away from my reach or sight and routinely allowed me a sip or two of it when they were drinking it and at "special occasion" dinners.
   
   didn't, at the time, care much for the taste of most alcoholic beverages I encountered, especially beer, so it wasn't a big deal for me to not drink much of it later in my life. (The very sweet wine served at church with communion was okay, but that isn't what my parents had at home.) It took only one college instance of my over imbibing, thus progressing from "buzzed" to "wasted," for me to know I was not ever going to let that happen again, for I didn't enjoy it. In fact, I thought, "why do people actually do this on purpose."

I didn't mean that I necessarily had an axe to grind against the legalisation of cannabis, I was merely trying to present the idea that it represents an admission of failure against the so-called war on drugs. I am personally pro legalisation, as I see great harm passed down to offenders against the law. Most Canadians support legalisation for this reason

Okay. I understand now why you used that phrasing. TY for the clarification.

 

[kellyd]

Marijuana Prohibition Was Racist From The Start. Not Much Has Changed. | The Huffington Post

mmm..yes.

If you don't know that the main reason why marijuana is still illegal isn't that the private prison system makes an absurd amount of money criminalizing minorities over pot, you don't know much.

I thought it was so that DuPont could enslave us in a world of polyester? Not correct?

You haven't figured in the chemtrails to your calculations, and the lizard people, but otherwise you are cooking with gas, my friend

I Thought the Lizard People only used DMT?

I bow to your greater knowledge of the lizard people, my friend

 

[Eloy]

It is surprising that the Dominion of Canada still considers smoking a joint to be a criminal offense.

Boy Smoking Marijuana after Manet's Boy Blowing Bubbles (1869) Paris

 

[kellyd]

It is surprising that the Dominion of Canada still considers smoking a joint to be a criminal offense.

Boy Smoking Marijuana after Manet's Boy Blowing Bubbles (1869) Paris

Why are you surprised? Is it legal where you reside? I love the painting, btw

 

[Eloy]

It is surprising that the Dominion of Canada still considers smoking a joint to be a criminal offense.

Boy Smoking Marijuana after Manet's Boy Blowing Bubbles (1869) Paris

Why are you surprised? Is it legal where you reside? I love the painting, btw

Yes, marijuana smoking is not a criminal offense in some European Union states and is available for medicinal use in others while still some are drafting legislation to decriminalize weed.
The boy in the painting even has bloodshot eyes. LOL

 

[yiostheoy]

Marijuana Prohibition Was Racist From The Start. Not Much Has Changed. | The Huffington Post

Interesting article from THP but it seems rather biased and absurd.

 

[yiostheoy]

If you don't know that the main reason why marijuana is still illegal isn't that the private prison system makes an absurd amount of money criminalizing minorities over pot, you don't know much.

Seems like an absurd conspiracy theory to me.

 

[yiostheoy]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I'm apprehensive about responding to the OP above for seeing loaded language like "surrender to the issue of drug abuse" does not suggest the OP actually wants, as stipulated in the thread title, a factually dispassionate discussion of pros and cons. Instead, it intimates that s/he has an axe to grind, for the pros and cons, along with comparisons and descriptions of various jurisdictions' policy and legalization terms, are widely available from myriad sources on the Internet.

• Comparing legal marijuana systems in Colorado and Washington
  
• Washington’s Marijuana Legalization Grows Knowledge, Not Just Pot: A Report on the State’s Strategy to Assess Reform
  
• Marijuana
• Weed pass sparks new problems (Holland)
  
• Legalization is a balancing act
  
• 60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
  
• Marijuana and Your Health: What 20 Years of Research Reveals
  
• Legal status of cannabis around the world - map (as of 2014)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Legality of cannabis by country (I don't know how current be the information here.)
  
• Options for Gleaning Revenue from Legal Cannabis
  
• An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects of Legal Clinical Cannabis
  
• Design considerations for legalizing cannabis: lessons inspired by analysis of California’s Proposition 19
  
• New regulated markets for recreational cannabis: public health or private profit?
  
• Assessing the Public Health Impacts of Legalizing Recreational Cannabis Use in the USA
  
• Interpreting Dutch Cannabis Policy: Reasoning by Analogy in the Legalization Debate -- This paper isn't expressly about marijuana legalization. Rather it is about the pitfalls of and rational limits to using Holland's experiences as an analogy for what other nations may or may not observe were they to follow Holland's model.
• EVALUATING CANNABIS LEGALIZATION
  
• Obstacles to a Regulated Cannabis Market (Canada)
• Uruguay’s Drug Policy: Major Innovations, Major Challenges (Unrelated: If you ever bother to go to Buenos Aires, extend the trip by a couple days to allow yourself time to go to Montevideo as well, or vice versa if you plan a trip to or find yourself in Montevideo.)

Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

The specific ideas I would share can be found in or inferred from the linked content above, and I have nothing new or different to add to that content that directly addresses the matter of cannabis legalization, its incidence and impacts.

Overall, I favor legalizing marijuana use and possession, or at least decriminalizing it. [1] I have a concern about marijuana's "gateway effect," but I also don't cotton to the principle of protecting individuals (adults) from themselves, so I weigh that concern as very low among the reasons for not legalizing/decriminalizing cannabis. I might assign greater weight to the concern and its consequences were cannabis as addictive as is nicotine [2], but it is not. Moreover, it's not clear to me that, and the extent that, the "gateway effect" of cannabis derives from its being "forbidden fruit." [3]


What strikes me as "special" about Canada and its legalization of cannabis, thus what I suspect gives rise to the somewhat vocal concerns and discussion of Canada's stance on the matter, is that among nations that (would) grant legal status to cannabis, or that have a laissez faire approach (in law and in law enforcement) to it and its users, Canada abuts the U.S., and travel by "typical Americans" between the two countries is relatively frequent and common. In contrast, not many "typical Americans" go to, or go often to, Spain, Iran or Uruguay, or the Netherlands, where "Mary Jane" is legally obtainable for recreational purposes by non-citizens in some jurisdictions and not in others.

Note:

1. I think the distinction between "legal" and "decriminalized" substances, objects and behaviors is absurd, but nobody solicited me in the fabrication and "socialization" of that distinction, so it exists widely enough that it is "a thing" now, and I therefore acquiesce to the accepted distinction.
   
2. Linked table is part of this study: Comparative risk assessment of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and other illicit drugs using the margin of exposure approach
3. Thinking back to my youth, my peers who were inclined to drink a lot and later, when they could legally buy booze, did drink a lot, were the kids whose parents made a big deal about their kids not drinking alcohol. My own parents never locked or stored the hootch away from my reach or sight and routinely allowed me a sip or two of it when they were drinking it and at "special occasion" dinners.
   
   didn't, at the time, care much for the taste of most alcoholic beverages I encountered, especially beer, so it wasn't a big deal for me to not drink much of it later in my life. (The very sweet wine served at church with communion was okay, but that isn't what my parents had at home.) It took only one college instance of my over imbibing, thus progressing from "buzzed" to "wasted," for me to know I was not ever going to let that happen again, for I didn't enjoy it. In fact, I thought, "why do people actually do this on purpose."

Xelor you are the only person I have ever seen who gives TOO MUCH documentation and links to support your views.

It creates a bottomless pit that nobody can possibly dive into, sort of like the bibliography after a book.

The one sentence that I got out of your long spiel is that you support the "legalization" of cannabis.

That is the salient issue.

In Colorado so far this legalization seems to have accomplished what was intended. There are still some doubts and reservations about it by a significant portion of the population there however.

I suspect that the high concentration of Catholics and Mormons in the Rocky Mountain states will always have reservations about cannabis.

It will take time and further observation about Colorado to find out if any such doubts are warranted.

Colorado is the test case. The people there are our lab rats.

 

[yiostheoy]

...Is it legal where you reside? I love the painting, btw

Recreational MJ is legal in the following:

Alaska
California
Oregon
Wash State
Nevada
Colorado
Maine
Connecticut

Medical MJ is legal in the following:

Arizona
Hawaii
Montana
New Mexico
North Dakota
Minnesota
Michigan
Illinois
Arkansas
Louisiana
Ohio
All New England States
All Mid Atlantic States
Florida

MJ is illegal everywhere else and Federally.

Of the Rocky Mountain states only Colorado has legalized recreational MJ.

Of the Rocky Mountain states, Montana has legalized medical MJ.

Of the desert Southwest states, Arizona and New Mexico have legalized medical MJ.

Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming have not legalized MJ in any way.

State Marijuana Laws in 2017 Map

 

[yiostheoy]

Mexicans and Negroes comprise a very high proportion of MJ and other dope trafficking activities than whites or Asians.

This probably accounts for the higher crime stats for Mexicans and Negroes.

Not some wild conspiracy theory about keeping Blackie down.

 

[kellyd]

...Is it legal where you reside? I love the painting, btw

Recreational MJ is legal in the following:

Alaska
California
Oregon
Wash State
Nevada
Colorado
Maine
Connecticut

Medical MJ is legal in the following:

Arizona
Hawaii
Montana
New Mexico
North Dakota
Minnesota
Michigan
Illinois
Arkansas
Louisiana
Ohio
All New England States
All Mid Atlantic States
Florida

MJ is illegal everywhere else and Federally.

Of the Rocky Mountain states only Colorado has legalized recreational MJ.

Of the Rocky Mountain states, Montana has legalized medical MJ.

Of the desert Southwest states, Arizona and New Mexico have legalized medical MJ.

Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming have not legalized MJ in any way.

State Marijuana Laws in 2017 Map

Thank you for your list. It's an interesting collection. Do you foresee any others joining?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I'm apprehensive about responding to the OP above for seeing loaded language like "surrender to the issue of drug abuse" does not suggest the OP actually wants, as stipulated in the thread title, a factually dispassionate discussion of pros and cons. Instead, it intimates that s/he has an axe to grind, for the pros and cons, along with comparisons and descriptions of various jurisdictions' policy and legalization terms, are widely available from myriad sources on the Internet.

• Comparing legal marijuana systems in Colorado and Washington
  
• Washington’s Marijuana Legalization Grows Knowledge, Not Just Pot: A Report on the State’s Strategy to Assess Reform
  
• Marijuana
• Weed pass sparks new problems (Holland)
  
• Legalization is a balancing act
  
• 60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
  
• Marijuana and Your Health: What 20 Years of Research Reveals
  
• Legal status of cannabis around the world - map (as of 2014)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Legality of cannabis by country (I don't know how current be the information here.)
  
• Options for Gleaning Revenue from Legal Cannabis
  
• An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects of Legal Clinical Cannabis
  
• Design considerations for legalizing cannabis: lessons inspired by analysis of California’s Proposition 19
  
• New regulated markets for recreational cannabis: public health or private profit?
  
• Assessing the Public Health Impacts of Legalizing Recreational Cannabis Use in the USA
  
• Interpreting Dutch Cannabis Policy: Reasoning by Analogy in the Legalization Debate -- This paper isn't expressly about marijuana legalization. Rather it is about the pitfalls of and rational limits to using Holland's experiences as an analogy for what other nations may or may not observe were they to follow Holland's model.
• EVALUATING CANNABIS LEGALIZATION
  
• Obstacles to a Regulated Cannabis Market (Canada)
• Uruguay’s Drug Policy: Major Innovations, Major Challenges (Unrelated: If you ever bother to go to Buenos Aires, extend the trip by a couple days to allow yourself time to go to Montevideo as well, or vice versa if you plan a trip to or find yourself in Montevideo.)

Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

The specific ideas I would share can be found in or inferred from the linked content above, and I have nothing new or different to add to that content that directly addresses the matter of cannabis legalization, its incidence and impacts.

Overall, I favor legalizing marijuana use and possession, or at least decriminalizing it. [1] I have a concern about marijuana's "gateway effect," but I also don't cotton to the principle of protecting individuals (adults) from themselves, so I weigh that concern as very low among the reasons for not legalizing/decriminalizing cannabis. I might assign greater weight to the concern and its consequences were cannabis as addictive as is nicotine [2], but it is not. Moreover, it's not clear to me that, and the extent that, the "gateway effect" of cannabis derives from its being "forbidden fruit." [3]


What strikes me as "special" about Canada and its legalization of cannabis, thus what I suspect gives rise to the somewhat vocal concerns and discussion of Canada's stance on the matter, is that among nations that (would) grant legal status to cannabis, or that have a laissez faire approach (in law and in law enforcement) to it and its users, Canada abuts the U.S., and travel by "typical Americans" between the two countries is relatively frequent and common. In contrast, not many "typical Americans" go to, or go often to, Spain, Iran or Uruguay, or the Netherlands, where "Mary Jane" is legally obtainable for recreational purposes by non-citizens in some jurisdictions and not in others.

Note:

1. I think the distinction between "legal" and "decriminalized" substances, objects and behaviors is absurd, but nobody solicited me in the fabrication and "socialization" of that distinction, so it exists widely enough that it is "a thing" now, and I therefore acquiesce to the accepted distinction.
   
2. Linked table is part of this study: Comparative risk assessment of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and other illicit drugs using the margin of exposure approach
3. Thinking back to my youth, my peers who were inclined to drink a lot and later, when they could legally buy booze, did drink a lot, were the kids whose parents made a big deal about their kids not drinking alcohol. My own parents never locked or stored the hootch away from my reach or sight and routinely allowed me a sip or two of it when they were drinking it and at "special occasion" dinners.
   
   didn't, at the time, care much for the taste of most alcoholic beverages I encountered, especially beer, so it wasn't a big deal for me to not drink much of it later in my life. (The very sweet wine served at church with communion was okay, but that isn't what my parents had at home.) It took only one college instance of my over imbibing, thus progressing from "buzzed" to "wasted," for me to know I was not ever going to let that happen again, for I didn't enjoy it. In fact, I thought, "why do people actually do this on purpose."

Xelor you are the only person I have ever seen who gives TOO MUCH documentation and links to support your views.

It creates a bottomless pit that nobody can possibly dive into, sort of like the bibliography after a book.

The one sentence that I got out of your long spiel is that you support the "legalization" of cannabis.

That is the salient issue.

In Colorado so far this legalization seems to have accomplished what was intended. There are still some doubts and reservations about it by a significant portion of the population there however.

I suspect that the high concentration of Catholics and Mormons in the Rocky Mountain states will always have reservations about cannabis.

It will take time and further observation about Colorado to find out if any such doubts are warranted.

Colorado is the test case. The people there are our lab rats.

Xelor you are the only person I have ever seen who gives TOO MUCH documentation and links to support your views.

It creates a bottomless pit that nobody can possibly dive into, sort of like the bibliography after a book.

Well, I'm not sure what to say to or about that. I read the stuff to which I link (except when I not that I have not done so). The "pit" doesn't seem so bottomless to me. Mostly, one need only read the introduction/framework and conclusions or discussion sections of the papers to which I link. If, however, one takes exception with the conclusions, discussion and/or results, well, then one needs to read the whole paper so as to have a sound basis for refuting the methodology that gave rise to the researchers' conclusions and so on.

If one endeavors to take on discussing a complex topic that has many variables to consider and to which one must rationally assign weights, there's usually a lot to think about and read. I say "read" because reading well developed work by others is generally more efficient than figuring out all that stuff on one's own. Don't you also think that availing oneself of the existing body of knowledge is better that "reinventing" it oneself?

The one sentence that I got out of your long spiel is that you support the "legalization" of cannabis. That is the salient issue.

What I shared as being my position, just as with others and their stated position, on the matter is the least important thing I wrote in the whole post. What I think, or what any other non policy maker or topical expert thinks isn't really all that important/worth knowing, except when a ballot is offered and the quantity of people who hold a given position determines what policy action(s) will ensue as a result of our learning the collective stance held by the polled population/sample.

 

[yiostheoy]

Justin Trudeau launching plan to legalise marijuana in Canada

legislation is being presented in Canada to legalise the recreational use of marijuana. It's a controversial topic, as there are many moving parts to this issue.

On one hand, the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure, and an expensive one, at that. Enforcement of this so called war has fallen mostly on minority shoulders, even though non minorities are statistically more likely to be cannabis users.

On the other hand, is it correct to just surrender to the issue of drug abuse, merely because it seems to be unenforceable with the tools we currently have at hand?

This is a major step to take, and the consequences may be far-ranging. Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

I'm apprehensive about responding to the OP above for seeing loaded language like "surrender to the issue of drug abuse" does not suggest the OP actually wants, as stipulated in the thread title, a factually dispassionate discussion of pros and cons. Instead, it intimates that s/he has an axe to grind, for the pros and cons, along with comparisons and descriptions of various jurisdictions' policy and legalization terms, are widely available from myriad sources on the Internet.

• Comparing legal marijuana systems in Colorado and Washington
  
• Washington’s Marijuana Legalization Grows Knowledge, Not Just Pot: A Report on the State’s Strategy to Assess Reform
  
• Marijuana
• Weed pass sparks new problems (Holland)
  
• Legalization is a balancing act
  
• 60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
  
• Marijuana and Your Health: What 20 Years of Research Reveals
  
• Legal status of cannabis around the world - map (as of 2014)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Legality of cannabis by country (I don't know how current be the information here.)
  
• Options for Gleaning Revenue from Legal Cannabis
  
• An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects of Legal Clinical Cannabis
  
• Design considerations for legalizing cannabis: lessons inspired by analysis of California’s Proposition 19
  
• New regulated markets for recreational cannabis: public health or private profit?
  
• Assessing the Public Health Impacts of Legalizing Recreational Cannabis Use in the USA
  
• Interpreting Dutch Cannabis Policy: Reasoning by Analogy in the Legalization Debate -- This paper isn't expressly about marijuana legalization. Rather it is about the pitfalls of and rational limits to using Holland's experiences as an analogy for what other nations may or may not observe were they to follow Holland's model.
• EVALUATING CANNABIS LEGALIZATION
  
• Obstacles to a Regulated Cannabis Market (Canada)
• Uruguay’s Drug Policy: Major Innovations, Major Challenges (Unrelated: If you ever bother to go to Buenos Aires, extend the trip by a couple days to allow yourself time to go to Montevideo as well, or vice versa if you plan a trip to or find yourself in Montevideo.)

Any ideas from states that have already started this process, and can offer some advice?

The specific ideas I would share can be found in or inferred from the linked content above, and I have nothing new or different to add to that content that directly addresses the matter of cannabis legalization, its incidence and impacts.

Overall, I favor legalizing marijuana use and possession, or at least decriminalizing it. [1] I have a concern about marijuana's "gateway effect," but I also don't cotton to the principle of protecting individuals (adults) from themselves, so I weigh that concern as very low among the reasons for not legalizing/decriminalizing cannabis. I might assign greater weight to the concern and its consequences were cannabis as addictive as is nicotine [2], but it is not. Moreover, it's not clear to me that, and the extent that, the "gateway effect" of cannabis derives from its being "forbidden fruit." [3]


What strikes me as "special" about Canada and its legalization of cannabis, thus what I suspect gives rise to the somewhat vocal concerns and discussion of Canada's stance on the matter, is that among nations that (would) grant legal status to cannabis, or that have a laissez faire approach (in law and in law enforcement) to it and its users, Canada abuts the U.S., and travel by "typical Americans" between the two countries is relatively frequent and common. In contrast, not many "typical Americans" go to, or go often to, Spain, Iran or Uruguay, or the Netherlands, where "Mary Jane" is legally obtainable for recreational purposes by non-citizens in some jurisdictions and not in others.

Note:

1. I think the distinction between "legal" and "decriminalized" substances, objects and behaviors is absurd, but nobody solicited me in the fabrication and "socialization" of that distinction, so it exists widely enough that it is "a thing" now, and I therefore acquiesce to the accepted distinction.
   
2. Linked table is part of this study: Comparative risk assessment of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and other illicit drugs using the margin of exposure approach
3. Thinking back to my youth, my peers who were inclined to drink a lot and later, when they could legally buy booze, did drink a lot, were the kids whose parents made a big deal about their kids not drinking alcohol. My own parents never locked or stored the hootch away from my reach or sight and routinely allowed me a sip or two of it when they were drinking it and at "special occasion" dinners.
   
   didn't, at the time, care much for the taste of most alcoholic beverages I encountered, especially beer, so it wasn't a big deal for me to not drink much of it later in my life. (The very sweet wine served at church with communion was okay, but that isn't what my parents had at home.) It took only one college instance of my over imbibing, thus progressing from "buzzed" to "wasted," for me to know I was not ever going to let that happen again, for I didn't enjoy it. In fact, I thought, "why do people actually do this on purpose."

Xelor you are the only person I have ever seen who gives TOO MUCH documentation and links to support your views.

It creates a bottomless pit that nobody can possibly dive into, sort of like the bibliography after a book.

The one sentence that I got out of your long spiel is that you support the "legalization" of cannabis.

That is the salient issue.

In Colorado so far this legalization seems to have accomplished what was intended. There are still some doubts and reservations about it by a significant portion of the population there however.

I suspect that the high concentration of Catholics and Mormons in the Rocky Mountain states will always have reservations about cannabis.

It will take time and further observation about Colorado to find out if any such doubts are warranted.

Colorado is the test case. The people there are our lab rats.

Xelor you are the only person I have ever seen who gives TOO MUCH documentation and links to support your views.

It creates a bottomless pit that nobody can possibly dive into, sort of like the bibliography after a book.

Well, I'm not sure what to say to or about that. I read the stuff to which I link (except when I not that I have not done so). The "pit" doesn't seem so bottomless to me. Mostly, one need only read the introduction/framework and conclusions or discussion sections of the papers to which I link. If, however, one takes exception with the conclusions, discussion and/or results, well, then one needs to read the whole paper so as to have a sound basis for refuting the methodology that gave rise to the researchers' conclusions and so on.

If one endeavors to take on discussing a complex topic that has many variables to consider and to which one must rationally assign weights, there's usually a lot to think about and read. I say "read" because reading well developed work by others is generally more efficient than figuring out all that stuff on one's own. Don't you also think that availing oneself of the existing body of knowledge is better that "reinventing" it oneself?

The one sentence that I got out of your long spiel is that you support the "legalization" of cannabis. That is the salient issue.

What I shared as being my position, just as with others and their stated position, on the matter is the least important thing I wrote in the whole post. What I think, or what any other non policy maker or topical expert thinks isn't really all that important/worth knowing, except when a ballot is offered and the quantity of people who hold a given position determines what policy action(s) will ensue as a result of our learning the collective stance held by the polled population/sample.

Xelor some of your run-on sentences are as bad as mine are !!