Can you say...COUP? Homeland Security preparing for civil conflict
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Salt Jones
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- Mar 22, 2011
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Good. Helped my ATK stock increase, since they own Federal Premium.
Salt Jones
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Will the camps sell lampshades?
There is absolutely nothing damning in that statement.
Resources won't be effective for that, but plenty of whale blubber for heating will be produced.
Please, explain what's radical in that statement, because it's a belief shared by large numbers in both parties.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
In the last 30 years, we have seen a tremendous re-distribution of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthy. If this continues, our nation will soon be third world.
catzmeow
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Jesus Christ, you paranoid whackjob.
1. First, homeland security includes ICE (immigration and customs enforcement), the Secret Service, the coast guard, and the border patrol. All of these agencies have high numbers of armed personnel who are responsible for enforcement/investigative activities, and use a lot of bullets.
2. Bullets and other supplies are cheaper in bulk, rather than making a series of smaller purchases.
3. Homeland Security is currently (imo) over-funded and due for cuts in the federal budget. They are spending available dollars for supplies that will be needed not only in 2012 but in future years, while those dollars are available. For instance, in 2011, DHS was funded for $98 billion, but only spent $66 billion. Federal agency money tends to be use or lose money, so in other words, if you don't spend the money that you were allocated by congress, your budget is likely to be chopped in subsequent years. It isn't uncommon for agencies in those scenarios to spend money on hard costs such as weapons, ammunition, uniforms, computers, etc. while they have the dollars. Bullets are a particularly good long-term purchase because they don't spoil or become technologically obsolete.
4. They are purchasing hollow points because cops/military personnel train with the bullets they use on duty, and most law enforcement agencies these days use hollow points because if you have to shoot a perp, you want to do as much damage as possible.
5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.
6. Put into perspective, the U.S. Army just purchased 2 billion rounds 7.62mm ammo from the same company. The army has around 560,000 military personnel. That's roughly 5 times the amount of personnel as homeland security. shockers...450 million is about 22% of 2 billion (or 1/5th).
Your paranoia is not cute. The lack of critical thinking skills that some of you exhibit is just sad at this point.
Instead of believing every paranoid freeper article you read, why not put on your thinking cap and do a little research?
1. First, homeland security includes ICE (immigration and customs enforcement), the Secret Service, the coast guard, and the border patrol. All of these agencies have high numbers of armed personnel who are responsible for enforcement/investigative activities, and use a lot of bullets.
2. Bullets and other supplies are cheaper in bulk, rather than making a series of smaller purchases.
3. Homeland Security is currently (imo) over-funded and due for cuts in the federal budget. They are spending available dollars for supplies that will be needed not only in 2012 but in future years, while those dollars are available. For instance, in 2011, DHS was funded for $98 billion, but only spent $66 billion. Federal agency money tends to be use or lose money, so in other words, if you don't spend the money that you were allocated by congress, your budget is likely to be chopped in subsequent years. It isn't uncommon for agencies in those scenarios to spend money on hard costs such as weapons, ammunition, uniforms, computers, etc. while they have the dollars. Bullets are a particularly good long-term purchase because they don't spoil or become technologically obsolete.
4. They are purchasing hollow points because cops/military personnel train with the bullets they use on duty, and most law enforcement agencies these days use hollow points because if you have to shoot a perp, you want to do as much damage as possible.
5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.
6. Put into perspective, the U.S. Army just purchased 2 billion rounds 7.62mm ammo from the same company. The army has around 560,000 military personnel. That's roughly 5 times the amount of personnel as homeland security. shockers...450 million is about 22% of 2 billion (or 1/5th).
Your paranoia is not cute. The lack of critical thinking skills that some of you exhibit is just sad at this point.
Instead of believing every paranoid freeper article you read, why not put on your thinking cap and do a little research?
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Thanks for posting those numbers. I ran across them somewhere, but didn't want to post them without sourcing.
GuyPinestra
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- Jan 29, 2012
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Which makes you smarter than catz, who throws out those numbers WITHOUT any.
NOBODY goes to the range with hollow points. NOBODY.
As for the rest of that screed, give me documentation or STFU, catz.
catzmeow
Gold Member
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- #72
ATK's 40mm Federal HST bullets, Speer GDHPs, and Winchester SXts are the industry standard for law enforcement use in 2012. The FBI has taken the lead on ballistic wound penetration testing since the 1980s and has partnered with ATK on wound ballistics workshops around the U.S. to allow local law enforcement to test these bullets. FBI wound ballistics penetration specs recommend penetration at 12 inches in order to stop an armed suspect.
Here's a link to info on ATK's website about the wound ballistics workshops:
LE - Wound Ballistics
It's hard to say which individual LE agencies buy which rounds, because each department in the U.S., and there are several thousand of them, has their own purchasing standards and departments, and they function autonomously. And, it is difficult to access industry sales reports. However, if you click on the links to the workshops, such as the one held in Butte in 2009, you can see the agencies that participated in those round tests, where the ATK Federal HST 40mms performed very well.
http://le.atk.com/pdf/Butte_WBW_5_27_09.pdf
It's not unlikely that after those tests, local PD leadership would direct their purchasers towards ATK's Federal HSTs
ATK, in particular, markets these rounds hard to law enforcement and military purchasers around the U.S. The ATK 40mm HST Federal is a round that was specifically designed for LEO use and is limited to purchases by law enforcement agencies, however, on rare occasions, sport users may be able to get them from a gun dealer.
It is very commonly used by law enforcement:
Federal HST Duty Ammo | Hendon Publishing
The use of the 40mm S/W now exceeds the use of the 9mm in most police agencies, making the 40mm Federal HST a very popular bullet.
As far as use of 40mm Federal HST in training, it's not uncommon. Most LEOs would make the case for using the same rounds in training that they use on duty, because different rounds fire differently from the same gun. The departments purchase ammo in bulk, distribute it to officers for use on duty and for training purposes, so officers use what the department buys. When you are buying rounds to carry on duty, it makes sense to buy the same rounds to fire in training and qualifying, because to do otherwise may well screw up your officers from qualifying on their weapon.
Money quote:
Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets? | OregonLive.com
This story has been going around for a while. These types of large purchases by federal and military agencies are normal. For whatever reason, these purchases were seized upon starting in April, 2012, by paranoid anti-government types, who apparently know very little about the field, and who are scared of their own shadows.
For instance, in April, 2012, it was paranoia about purchases of similar ammo by the FBI during 2011:
http://theintelhub.com/2012/04/05/t...low-point-ammunition-in-the-last-three-years/
The NRA even put up an article about this topic on their website in August:
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...es-buy-ammunition.aspx?s=DHS+purchase&st=&ps=
here's a money quote from a republican congressman whose office was asked to research these purchases:
But, I like this quote from the NRA, myself:
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koshergrl
Diamond Member
- Aug 4, 2011
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"
The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agency’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.
Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.
The classified portions of the document include references to the amount of 223 62 and 223 64 grain ammunition being purchased.
The solicitation explains how the contract put out by the DHS to purchase the ammunition was not subject to “full and open competition,” a process justified by what the DHS claims was an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation which could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed."
» DHS Classifies New Ammo Purchases Following Controversy Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
» DHS Classifies New Ammo Purchases Following Controversy Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
catzmeow
Gold Member
- Banned
- #78
"
The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agencyÂ’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.
Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.The classified portions of the document include references to the amount of 223 62 and 223 64 grain ammunition being purchased.The solicitation explains how the contract put out by the DHS to purchase the ammunition was not subject to “full and open competition,” a process justified by what the DHS claims was an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation which could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed."
» DHS Classifies New Ammo Purchases Following Controversy Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
You should stop reading infowars. Your brain is already addled and paranoid enough.
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