Zone1 Can you find the Flaw in Atheist Speaker Christopher Hitchens' Logic Here.

[Seymour Flops]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).

I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God.



For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Whoops, I stand very much corrected. He does talk about Islam:



Maybe he was speaking primarily of Islam.

In which case . . . never mind!

Except he still wrong, even about Islam.

 

[sealybobo]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).

I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God.



For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

The Greeks had the Greek Gods. Many gods. Jews came up with 1 god. Gentiles saw Jewdaoism and wanted to join but it's not that easy so they made up a much easier religion to join. Just believe the unbelievable stories, put money in the pot and get baptized. Pretty much. It is a spin off of Jewdaoism. And Jewdaoism proficized a messiah would come but the jews, who were supposedly there and saw it, say he was not the messiah.

So I find it funny people in Greece, Mexico, India, and everywhere else bought the story. Would you buy that story today if someone told it to you?

 

[Seymour Flops]

The Greeks had the Greek Gods. Many gods. Jews came up with 1 god. Gentiles saw Jewdaoism and wanted to join but it's not that easy so they made up a much easier religion to join. Just believe the unbelievable stories, put money in the pot and get baptized. Pretty much. It is a spin off of Jewdaoism. And Jewdaoism proficized a messiah would come but the jews, who were supposedly there and saw it, say he was not the messiah.

So I find it funny people in Greece, Mexico, India, and everywhere else bought the story. Would you buy that story today if someone told it to you?

No sir.

That is not even an attempt to find the flaw in Hitchen's logic.

I award you no points.

 

[alang1216]

For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I always wondered why God didn't send Jesus to China and the Americas too. Didn't they deserve enlightenment? Why to only one people in one place at one time?

 

[norwegen]

The Jews were barbaric, backward, and illiterate, Hitchens said, while in China, people could read, think, and do science. That's quite biased. The Judeans managed to get built one of the most impressive and lavish temples of their time, and many of them were quite literate and educated.

Sure, their laws were draconian, and, by today's standards, immoral. So were China's laws, which were immoral even in recent history.

So, why no messiah in China or anywhere else? Because no messiah was expected anywhere else. Plain and simple. A messiah figure fits the Hebrew narrative. Jesus wasn't exactly what the Jews expected, but his appearance was the climax and denouement of their story.

And, as it turned out, his appearance literally was able to change the religious and cultural landscape of the entire world.

 

[Hafar1014]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).

I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God.



For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

The flaw is quite simple so I have to answer in a religious context. Hitchens who is very bright guy assumes that God is our controller. That he is expected to control our behavior as if we were ants. So how can God allow all the violence and oppression and destructive human behavior? The answer is in Genesis an allegory not a literal story. God empowers Adam with morals and free will. Its human nature to be autonomous. Some of us are gong to choose to be good and others not good and there will Be Hitlers Stalin Mao and Putins. Its up to us to create the moral justice not God. Look at what we are doing in Iran. Destroying the NAZIS of our generation. Evil is not proof there is no God. Only that there are evil people and good people to stop them. We defeated Communism Nazim, socialism, and now theocratic oppression. It seems we tend to win every time but yest its a fight. The next threat is domestic progressive socialist ideology taking over Americas left. We are winning that battle now also.
Just a not most atheists are angry at god and have some grudge in their lives. Hitchens lost his mother at young age. I believe this is what motivates him

 

[Hafar1014]

The Jews were barbaric, backward, and illiterate, Hitchens said, while in China, people could read, think, and do science. That's quite biased. The Judeans managed to get built one of the most impressive and lavish temples of their time, and many of them were quite literate and educated.

Sure, their laws were draconian, and, by today's standards, immoral. So were China's laws, which were immoral even in recent history.

So, why no messiah in China or anyone else? Because no messiah was expected anywhere else. Plain and simple. A messiah figure fits the Hebrew narrative. Jesus wasn't exactly what the Jews expected, but his appearance was the climax and denouement of their story.

And, as it turned out, his appearance literally was able to change the religious and cultural landscape of the entire world.

Not for the better at first. Christinaity is distortion of Judiasm

 

[Hafar1014]

I always wondered why God didn't send Jesus to China and the Americas too. Didn't they deserve enlightenment? Why to only one people in one place at one time?

Mao was the Chinses messiah after he slaughtered 80 million people

 

[SweetSue92]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).

I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God.



For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

If God is God He could have certainly done this, and had decent reason to do so.

But these people always start with the premise that God is us, only higher in the sky

 

[norwegen]

Not for the better at first. Christinaity is distortion of Judiasm

Not a distortion of Judaism; a repudiation of it.

And much, much, much more successful.

 

[Hafar1014]

Not a distortion of Judaism; a repudiation of it.

And much, much, much more successful.

Jews are the most successful culture in human hisotry in the face of the worst oppression ever imposed on anyone.
Jewish individuals have won over 200 Nobel Prizes, representing roughly 20–22% of all recipients since 1901, despite constituting only 0.2% of the world's population. They have won major awards across all categories, with exceptionally high representation in medicine (30%), economics (40%), and physics (25%).
Wikipedia +3
Key details about Jewish Nobel Laureates:

• Total Count: At least 220–226 Jewish laureates (including those with at least one Jewish parent) have been awarded, accounting for 22% of total prizes.
• Scientific Dominance: Jewish scientists have won roughly 26% of all Nobel Prizes in scientific fields since 2000.
• Top Categories:
  • Medicine: Over 60 recipients (approx. 30% of total).
  • Economics: Approximately 40% of all laureates.
  • Physics: Over 55 recipients (approx. 25% of total).
• Famous Laureates: Notable Jewish winners include Albert Einstein (Physics), Niels Bohr (Physics), Elie Metchnikoff (Medicine), and Paul Ehrlich (Medicine).
• Cultural Factors: The high success rate is often attributed to a cultural emphasis on education, critical thinking, and intellectual debate.
  Wikipedia +5

Jewish winners are highly represented in the U.S. total, comprising roughly 36–37% of all American Nobel laureates.
JINFrg +1

 

[norwegen]

Christians in the world: 2.5 billion.
Jews in the world: 15.5 million.

And those are not even Jews of the biblical era.

Actual Jews of Judea, descended from Jacob: 0.

 

[Meriweather]

Not for the better at first. Christinaity is distortion of Judiasm

Its human nature to be autonomous.

Christianity is not so much a distortion of Judaism as you have made a misjudgment of Christianity. Happiness and trust also encompasses human nature. The question before Adam and Eve was one of trust and happiness. Did they want to put their trust in God and His ways--or did they want to trust in their own way, seeking happiness apart from God and His ways?

This is a point where you fail to understand Christianity. You seem to think that Christians see Adam and Eve as the ones who committed, and everyone else is paying for it. The original sin is each individual's first sin--that desire to trust in oneself and find happiness apart from God and His ways.

When are you happiest? When you choose to be apart from God, putting your own way above God's ways--or when you choose to walk in the Way of the Lord...His Law, His Word, His salvation?

 

[Hafar1014]

Christianity is not so much a distortion of Judaism as you have made a misjudgment of Christianity. Happiness and trust also encompasses human nature. The question before Adam and Eve was one of trust and happiness. Did they want to put their trust in God and His ways--or did they want to trust in their own way, seeking happiness apart from God and His ways?

This is a point where you fail to understand Christianity. You seem to think that Christians see Adam and Eve as the ones who committed, and everyone else is paying for it. The original sin is each individual's first sin--that desire to trust in oneself and find happiness apart from God and His ways.

When are you happiest? When you choose to be apart from God, putting your own way above God's ways--or when you choose to walk in the Way of the Lord...His Law, His Word, His salvation?

In Genesis there is no original sin or fall of man and it states the act of one person cant be extended to humanity. The opposite of Christian dogma. By declaring everyone born in sin and must become a Christian or go to hell is the use of a threat to compel obedience. Genesis describes belief as free choice not a threat. There is no devil or hell. Christianity is a complete distortion of the meaning in Genesis.
I am happiest when my life has meaning and I have become self actualized. See Abraham Masow. I have acheived all of that without Jesus who to every Jew is an idol

 

[Meriweather]

In Genesis there is no original sin or fall of man and it states the act of one person cant be extended to humanity. The opposite of Christian dogma. By declaring everyone born in sin and must become a Christian or go to hell is the use of a threat to compel obedience. Genesis describes belief as free choice not a threat. There is no devil or hell. Christianity is a complete distortion of the meaning in Genesis.

At issue here is that you have your own version of Christianity and you keep imagining Christians swallowing and living your slant. In Catholicism, baptism is an announcement that one will be living, not in the ways of the world, but in the ways of the kingdom of God. This is quite ambitious when one's physical existence is in this world--and where love, mercy, forgiveness, and salvation surrounds one.

I am happiest when my life has meaning and I have become self actualized. See Abraham Masow. I have acheived all of that without Jesus who to every Jew is an idol

Did you achieve all of that without the Word of God?

 

[task0778]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).

I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God.



For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?

I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

Being obscure and illiterate proves nothing, either way. And BTW the same thing could be said about Arabs who founded and now believe in Islam. They believe their religion is the true one too.

Mr Hitchens, like Mr Dawkins are allowed to have their opinions. Just like everyone else, and intelligence plays no part in their gravitas. That's cuz it's all about faith rather than logic.

 

[Hafar1014]

At issue here is that you have your own version of Christianity and you keep imagining Christians swallowing and living your slant. In Catholicism, baptism is an announcement that one will be living, not in the ways of the world, but in the ways of the kingdom of God. This is quite ambitious when one's physical existence is in this world--and where love, mercy, forgiveness, and salvation surrounds one.

Did you achieve all of that without the Word of God?

Yes Jewish moral valeus, belief in myself, hard work hope and never giving up in fact accomplishing the imposible

 

[Meriweather]

Yes Jewish moral valeus, belief in myself, hard work hope and never giving up in fact accomplishing the imposible

Where did Jewish morals originate?

 

[Hafar1014]

Where did Jewish morals originate?

Where morals originate from is not clear. The belief they come from God cant explain why different religions have very different morals. The Jewish belief is God and that is explained in the allegory of Genesis the moral teaching of man and the trial for man's freedom. Incorrectly believed by Christians as original sin and the fall of man. So did monotheism and the decalogue come from Jews or was it given top Jews by God?

A better explanation is modern psychology. Moral values are created by social interaction with the family during critical periods of development. These values would reflect the need to survive in a social context that has evolved.
See Erikson developmental stages