Zone1 Can you find the Flaw in Atheist Speaker Christopher Hitchens' Logic Here.

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So who created God

Spoken like an atheist. What does Judaism say about that? Because Christians believe the same thing.

 

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Which you have no answer to because the logic is perfect

I've answered it many times. The fact that you won't tell me what I've said tells me you are a troll.

 

[Hafar1014]

You are asking the wrong guy because you won't like my answer. I don't interpret the NT like an evangelical. So, no. I don't believe anyone's "salvation" is in jeopardy. I don't even worry about my "salvation" because I believe the message is about living in the here and now, not about a future reward. Take care of the journey and the rest will follow whatever that might be.

I don't know how you can separate what Jesus taught and what was attributed to him. You have no guide. I do. It's called the Holy Spirit and I am led by the Holy Spirit. Feel free to enumerate all the things you believe are wrong; either attributed to Jesus or otherwise. Although for the life of me I don't see how you can distinguish between the two.

Try leading yourself thats Gods plan he doesnt want a groveling follower who cant define the meaning of their life. He wants free thinking autonomous human beings making their own choices. Youre like the chid that still lives home at the age of 40.

 

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Try leading yourself thats Gods plan he doesnt want a groveling follower who cant define the meaning of their life. He wants free thinking autonomous human beings making their own choices. Youre like the chid that still lives home at the age of 40.

Tell me again how you are equal to God. The meaning of life is to pass it on. Go away, troll.

 

[Hafar1014]

I've answered it many times. The fact that you won't tell me what I've said tells me you are a troll.

Spoken like an atheist. What does Judaism say about that? Because Christians believe the same thing.

It a valid question go ahead and answer it. Jews ponder thei all the time. Who created the creator. Lets see that Christian logic answer this

 

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It a valid question go ahead and answer it. Jews ponder thei all the time. Who created the creator. Lets see that Christian logic answer this

No one or no thing created God. God has always existed and will always exist and is the source of existence and reality. God provides reality to all places at all times. Now, please go **** yourself, troll.

 

[Hafar1014]

No one or no thing created God. God has always existed and will always exist and is the source of existence and reality. God provides reality to all places at all times. Now, please go **** yourself, troll.

Nothing has always existed that not possible. Youre using circular logic. An honest answer is you dont know. I dont know. You fill that void with belief thats all it is belief.

 

[alang1216]

You are asking the wrong guy because you won't like my answer. I don't interpret the NT like an evangelical. So, no. I don't believe anyone's "salvation" is in jeopardy. I don't even worry about my "salvation" because I believe the message is about living in the here and now, not about a future reward. Take care of the journey and the rest will take care of itself whatever that might be.

Not a bad message but I doubt many Christians would agree.

John 14:6 is a foundational Christian verse where Jesus declares "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (NIV). This statement signifies that Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God.

I don't know how you can separate what Jesus taught and what was attributed to him. You have no guide. I do. It's called the Holy Spirit and I am led by the Holy Spirit. Feel free to enumerate all the things you believe are wrong; either attributed to Jesus or otherwise. Although for the life of me I don't see how you can distinguish between the two. My point still stands though. Your only arguments against God come from your misunderstanding of the OT, not the NT.

I can't know your guide only my own, Textual Criticism. Jesus (and Paul) were apocalyptic Jews who believed they lived in the end times. They didn't.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Nothing has always existed that not possible. Youre using circular logic. An honest answer is you dont know. I dont know. You fill that void with belief thats all it is belief.

So at some point in the remote past, nothing existed?

Where did it all come from, then?

 

[Meriweather]

John 14:6 is a foundational Christian verse where Jesus declares "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (NIV). This statement signifies that Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God.

A study of Hebrew and Aramaic in Biblical times has a different connotation than English in modern Western culture. A name, then, was more than a label, but the essence of what a person stood for. 'Jesus' (Yeshua) stated, God is salvation. In Western culture, there are more than a few who view God (thanks to the King James English) as tyrant.

These days, who do you suppose has the more accurate view of God: Those who view him as salvation, or those who view him as tyrant? Would you turn to tyrant for salvation? One also does well to keep in mind in Biblical culture, faith in God's ways was not about any kind of afterlife. Faith in God's ways was all about how to live this present life. In Christianity, this is known as kingdom living, and our belief is that kingdom living is the eternal way of life.

 

[Meriweather]

I can't know your guide only my own, Textual Criticism. Jesus (and Paul) were apocalyptic Jews who believed they lived in the end times. They didn't.

There is every indication they believed old ways were coming to an end, and a new way beginning.

 

[alang1216]

A study of Hebrew and Aramaic in Biblical times has a different connotation than English in modern Western culture. A name, then, was more than a label, but the essence of what a person stood for. 'Jesus' (Yeshua) stated, God is salvation. In Western culture, there are more than a few who view God (thanks to the King James English) as tyrant.

I think you can find both Gods in the OT.

These days, who do you suppose has the more accurate view of God: Those who view him as salvation, or those who view him as tyrant? Would you turn to tyrant for salvation? One also does well to keep in mind in Biblical culture, faith in God's ways was not about any kind of afterlife. Faith in God's ways was all about how to live this present life. In Christianity, this is known as kingdom living, and our belief is that kingdom living is the eternal way of life.

As I understand it, the Jewish (and later Christian) focus on an afterlife came from Jews in the Babylonian exile being influenced by Zoroastrianism. So lots of different views are present in the OT.

 

[alang1216]

There is every indication they believed old ways were coming to an end, and a new way beginning.

Was not aware of this. What are the indications?

 

[Meriweather]

Was not aware of this. What are the indications?

We can start with Christ's death, resurrection, ascension, and his sending his Apostles to the ends of the earth with Good News.

The idea of end times began centuries before Christ.

 

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Not a bad message but I doubt many Christians would agree.

Does that matter?

John 14:6 is a foundational Christian verse where Jesus declares "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (NIV). This statement signifies that Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God.

So if I understand you correctly, you believe that when Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" you believe that means Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God., right?

I agree that Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God, but probably not in the same way you do. There are three concepts you should consider; redemption, salvation and sanctification. So when Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" I interpret that to mean he is redeeming everyone through his sacrafice. Salvation and sanctification are two different things. Jesus wasn't commenting on salvation. Jesus was commenting on the fact that he is redeeming everyone.

I like the phrase you used, "exclusive path to salvation." I like it because there is a path from redemption to salvation. So my question to you is what do you believe that path requires?

 

[ding]

Nothing has always existed that not possible. Youre using circular logic. An honest answer is you dont know. I dont know. You fill that void with belief thats all it is belief.

Existence has always existed. Existence cannot come from non-existence. God is existence. God is reality. We exist in the mind of God.

 

[alang1216]

We can start with Christ's death, resurrection, ascension, and his sending his Apostles to the ends of the earth with Good News.

I believe he died, the other stuff I believe got added on later by his followers.

The idea of end times began centuries before Christ.

True, and they were all wrong since we're still waiting.

 

[ding]

I can't know your guide only my own,

Actually you can. All you have to do is die to self and seek God with all your heart.

Textual Criticism. Jesus (and Paul) were apocalyptic Jews who believed they lived in the end times. They didn't.

It doesn't matter if they believed they lived in the end of times. All that matters is were they good witnesses. I believe the evidence shows they were.

 

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You fill that void with belief thats all it is belief.

That is the argument of atheists for sure. Let me flip that around. You were made to worship something. The only choice in the matter is what you choose to worship. Some worship fame, fortune, power, pleasure, themselves, etc., but none of those will satisfy because we were made for more. So you can either worship the created or you can worship the creator. It's your choice. But God is not a belief. God is the source of all existence.

 

[alang1216]

So if I understand you correctly, you believe that when Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" you believe that means Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God., right?

I believe that is what John believed.

I agree that Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation, divine truth, and eternal life with God, but probably not in the same way you do. There are three concepts you should consider; redemption, salvation and sanctification. So when Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" I interpret that to mean he is redeeming everyone through his sacrafice. Salvation and sanctification are two different things. Jesus wasn't commenting on salvation. Jesus was commenting on the fact that he is redeeming everyone.

Your interpretations are as valid as those of anyone else.

I like the phrase you used, "exclusive path to salvation." I like it because there is a path from redemption to salvation. So my question to you is what do you believe that path requires?

A God.