Can we reasonably discuss Trump?

[bripat9643]

my concern with Trump is he doesn't fight for what he believes in on certain issues. for example, he believes in the death penalty. why not call for the death penalty to all those folks who burned limousines and the rest? why not lock Hillary up for her crimes? why not lock up Madonna for sayin she wants to "blow up the white house"???

Trump can't make the law. Congress has to pass a bill, and then Trump can sign.

I thought you were smarter than that.

 

[mamooth]

Well, that is certainly objective scientific evidence. Do you suppose contractors would line up to bid on Trump's projects if they knew they were going to get stiffed? That hardly seems rational.

A rational person would conclude they didn't know they were going to be stiffed, being that they all said as much.

Do you suppose there is any general contractor who hasn't had a contract dispute with a sub contractor?

How many have hundreds of court cases pending?

None, except Trump.

But then, they must be all picking on Trump, right? And they all started picking on him before he even announced. It's all a conspiracy, somehow.

Oh, nice use of the "fake news" defense. Good cultist. Good cultist. Your masters will surely give you a treat for that, you loyal lapdog.

 

[mamooth]

Now if contracts can't be expected to be honored or respected then we're right back in the same boat again

And Trump doesn't respect the contracts, at all. That's the point.

And you kiss his ass for that, solely because he's your fuerher, and because you're a corrupt cultist.

Why do you hate working people to the extent that you justify robbing them?

 

[Pogo]

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic?

I think that's extremely smart business and he's well within his rights to do this. It's the primary reason some people are wealthy and others aren't. You don't really know all the details, just what you've been spoon-fed by the "fake news" media who wanted to lead you by the nose ring. People who deal with contracts do this all the time, it's business. If you contract with me to do X, Y and Z.... and you only do X and Y... I don't have an obligation to pay you. Our contract didn't agree to those terms. Sorry!

Unfuckingbelievable, this level of self-delusion.

OP's actually saying it's OK to rip people off as long as it's a nice orange authoritarian Daddy figure he can wank over.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Sorry, but I see this the other way around. It's ripping someone off to not fulfill your contracted obligations. It has nothing to do with what color you are or who your daddy is or how wealthy you are.

You see... way back in time, men gave their word and shook hands... that was all they needed because men were as good as their word. But times changed and so did men, and sometimes they wouldn't honor their word... so we invented this thing called a "contract" so that men could mutually agree on terms again. Now if contracts can't be expected to be honored or respected then we're right back in the same boat again.

So we have to keep the contract idea because that's better than what we did before. And we have to maintain respect for the integrity of the contract and what is agreed to in it. We can't start saying that certain contracts are meaningless because some people have more money than others. That's what you want to do but that's not going to happen. Sorry!

There ain't nothing in the scenario presented even vaguely related to "not fulfilling contracted obligations". Yet another strawman inserted so that you can win a point arguing with yourself.

No, this was a simple deadbeat scenario. Two entities agreed on work; the work was done, the hiring entity reneged and defied the contractor to "take me to court". And you're sitting here enabling that shit.

You're pathetic.

 

[Boss]

What behavior? That he said the truth? That he defended himself against smears? Yeah... I'll excuse his behavior there. You have any evidence of anything else?

I've shown you the evidence. Next time anybody you know gets sexually assaulted, or disses somebody whose son died in service, don't come bleating on to this board about it. You obviously agree with people who do that.

Trump is a disgusting piece of human garbage. You're defending him. That says a lot about you. None of it good...

Well no, you haven't shown any evidence, that's the whole problem here. You seem to be making an irrational judgement of the man without evidence. I'm going to defend him against false allegations until you present some evidence.

I can disrespect someone who's son died in service if they disrespect me. Your son dying in service doesn't make you immune from being disrespected when you're disrespecting others. The same goes for war heroes and civil rights icons. Your past deeds don't insulate you from criticism.

 

[Boss]

And Trump doesn't respect the contracts, at all. That's the point.

And you kiss his ass for that, solely because he's your fuerher, and because you're a corrupt cultist.

Why do you hate working people to the extent that you justify robbing them?

No, Trump DOES respect the contracts. Until you show me some evidence to the contrary. I've already stated, I did not vote for Trump and he isn't my "fuehrer" or whatever.

I am all for working people and so is Trump. That doesn't mean he is going to get fucked over on a contract arrangement just because he has some money.

 

[Boss]

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic?

I think that's extremely smart business and he's well within his rights to do this. It's the primary reason some people are wealthy and others aren't. You don't really know all the details, just what you've been spoon-fed by the "fake news" media who wanted to lead you by the nose ring. People who deal with contracts do this all the time, it's business. If you contract with me to do X, Y and Z.... and you only do X and Y... I don't have an obligation to pay you. Our contract didn't agree to those terms. Sorry!

Unfuckingbelievable, this level of self-delusion.

OP's actually saying it's OK to rip people off as long as it's a nice orange authoritarian Daddy figure he can wank over.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Sorry, but I see this the other way around. It's ripping someone off to not fulfill your contracted obligations. It has nothing to do with what color you are or who your daddy is or how wealthy you are.

You see... way back in time, men gave their word and shook hands... that was all they needed because men were as good as their word. But times changed and so did men, and sometimes they wouldn't honor their word... so we invented this thing called a "contract" so that men could mutually agree on terms again. Now if contracts can't be expected to be honored or respected then we're right back in the same boat again.

So we have to keep the contract idea because that's better than what we did before. And we have to maintain respect for the integrity of the contract and what is agreed to in it. We can't start saying that certain contracts are meaningless because some people have more money than others. That's what you want to do but that's not going to happen. Sorry!

There ain't nothing in the scenario presented even vaguely related to "not fulfilling contracted obligations". Yet another strawman inserted so that you can win a point arguing with yourself.

No, this was a simple deadbeat scenario. Two entities agreed on work; the work was done, the hiring entity reneged and defied the contractor to "take me to court". And you're sitting here enabling that shit.

You're pathetic.

But that's not what happened. Show us your evidence.

 

[pwjohn]

Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

Nobody's gonna waste their time reading through all that cock & bull

 

[Boss]

Nobody's gonna waste their time reading through all that cock & bull

Well there's been 150 replies since I posted it less than 3 hrs ago, so apparently someone is reading through it. Maybe you're right, maybe they're just blindly posting their emotive nonsense?

Like you, for instance.

 

[Pogo]

As his presidential campaign trundles forward, millions of sane Americans are wondering: What exactly is wrong with this strange individual? Now, we have an answer.

>> For mental-health professionals, Donald Trump is at once easily diagnosed but slightly confounding. “Remarkably narcissistic,” said developmental psychologist Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education. “Textbook narcissistic personality disorder,” echoed clinical psychologist Ben Michaelis. “He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example of his characteristics,” said clinical psychologist George Simon, who conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior. “Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”

.... “He’s very easy to diagnose,” said psychotherapist Charlotte Prozan. “In the first debate, he talked over people and was domineering. He’ll do anything to demean others, like tell Carly Fiorina he doesn’t like her looks. ‘You’re fired!’ would certainly come under lack of empathy. And he wants to deport immigrants, but [two of] his wives have been immigrants.” Michaelis took a slightly different twist on Trump’s desire to deport immigrants: “This man is known for his golf courses, but, with due respect, who does he think works on these golf courses?”

Mr. Trump’s bullying nature—taunting Senator John McCain for being captured in Vietnam, or saying Jeb Bush has “low energy”—is in keeping with the narcissistic profile. “In the field we use clusters of personality disorders,” Michaelis said. “Narcissism is in cluster B, which means it has similarities with histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. There are similarities between them. Regardless of how you feel about John McCain, the man served—and suffered. Narcissism is an extreme defense against one’s own feelings of worthlessness. To degrade people is really part of a cluster-B personality disorder: it’s antisocial and shows a lack of remorse for other people. The way to make it O.K. to attack someone verbally, psychologically, or physically is to lower them. That’s what he’s doing.” <<​

Here's the angle I've been articulating since the day this shitstorm started:

>> ... Indeed, the need to protect or exalt the self is at odds with the job requirements of a president. Michaelis said, “He’s applying for the greatest job in the land, the greatest task of which is to serve, but there’s nothing about the man that is service-oriented. He’s only serving himself.” As Prozan sees it, “He keeps saying he could negotiate with Putin because he’s good at deals. But diplomacy involves a back and forth between equals.” <<​

And here's another worthy point:

>> .... But for at least one mental-health professional, the Trump enigma, or should we say non-enigma, is larger than the bluster of the man whose own Web site calls him “the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence”—to this mind-set, Trump may be a kind of bellwether. Mr. Gardner said, “For me, the compelling question is the psychological state of his supporters. They are unable or unwilling to make a connection between the challenges faced by any president and the knowledge and behavior of Donald Trump. In a democracy, that is disastrous.” <<​

Indeed, this thread being a classic example. OP pretends to pose an open question and as soon as he gets honest answers proceeds to shoot down any that don't wend their way to the hero-worship he's after.

 

[owebo]

sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

A lot of what you're seeing now from liberals is feeding off of the #nevertrumpers....they have done untold damage to Trump and the Country....

 

[Boss]

Indeed, this thread being a classic example. OP pretends to pose an open question and as soon as he gets honest answers proceeds to shoot down any that don't wend their way to the hero-worship he's after.

Again, I am not a "Trump supporter" and didn't vote for Trump. There are lots of things I disagree with him on and I think his style is kind of reckless and immature sometimes. I don't think he is racist, homophobic or misogynistic. Nor do I think he is mentally unstable or disturbed, or anything like Adolph Hitler. I am here asking you for evidence and a reasonable discussion but all you can show me are emotively-charged and partisan opinions and conjecture. If that's all you have, that's all you have.

 

[asaratis]

Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

Sorry, Boss...but you will never change the basic nature of USMB and the puerile posters that will regurgitate liberal talking points and unfounded criticisms of President Trump as if they were divinely inspired scripture. Polite discussions do not exist in this open forum.

Regarding President Trump, I believe he should be given at least 100 days to SHOW that he is going to be a good President. If he accomplishes what he said he would do, he will be the greatest President we've had in modern times. He will have saved us from ISIS (by destroying ISIS), he will have saved us from socialism (by proving how well our capitalism can work) and saved us from military defeat (by strengthening and maintaining our military).

Again, good luck trying to carry on an adult conversation with the liberal buffoons on this open forum! Liberalism is a mental disorder!

 

[Pogo]

Narrated Rumple al-Egomaniakh:

“No one is more conservative than me.”

“No one is stronger on the Second Amendment than me.”

“No one respects women more than me."

"No one reads the Bible more than me.”

“There’s nobody more pro-Israel than I am.”

“There’s nobody that’s done so much for equality as I have.”

“There’s nobody who feels more strongly about women’s health issues.”

“Nobody knows more about taxes than me, maybe in the history of the world.”

“I have studied the Iran deal in great detail, greater by far than anyone else.”

“Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

“Nobody knows banking better than I do.”

“Nobody knows more about debt than I do.”

“Nobody’s bigger or better at the military I am.”

“I am the least racist person you’ll ever meet.”

“Nobody knows the system better than me.”

“Nobody knows politicians better than me.”

“Nobody builds better walls than me.”

“Nobody knows more about trade than me.”

“There is nobody more against Obamacare than me.”​

“Nobody has better toys than me.”

“I can be more presidential than anybody. I would say more presidential, and I’ve said this a couple of times, more presidential other than the great Abe Lincoln.”

​

Garry Trudeau assembled these for his comic Doonesbury, all of which are real, and then added a fictitious one:

“Nobody is better on humility than me.”

And yet.... soon enough, I believe it was the 60 Minutes interview.... Rump did just that. Actually he outdid that.
When asked about humility he actually said --- not even making this up----

"I'm very humble. I'm humble in ways you wouldn't even understand".

​

He actually said that. On camera.
That's the kind of thing that lead me to think Andy Kaufmann never really died, he just donned a wig and painted his face orange to pull the most outrageous dadaist joke in history.

So to recap --- Rump is, according to the word of Rump (praised be unto his orange name) that he, personally, is the absolute superlative in the areas of:

• Being conservative
• Being "strong" on the Second Amendment
  
• Reading the bible
• respecting women
• being "pro-Israel", whatever that might mean
• doing 'things' for equality, ditto
• "feeling strongly" about women's health issues, presumably regarding blood and bathrooms
• knowing about taxes, ever (notice he doesn't mention actually paying them)
  
• studying "the Iran deal"
• Banking (in which he's never worked)
• Being "successful", whatever that might mean
• Being in debt --- oopsie, get George Orwell on the horn
• Knowing "the system"
• Being "bigger or better at the military", whatever that means, despite having zero military experience to be "big at"
• Being the "least racist"
• Knowing politicians (and bribing them)
• Building "walls" -- well metaphorically, yes without a doubt
• Knowing about trade
• Being against Obamacare
• Having the best toys
• Being presidential
• Being humble
  

And of course let's not leave out:

• Being the greatest jobs president that god ever created (notice what kind of job was not specified, e.g. "con")

----- Simultaneously he's all that.

But there's no way he's a Narcissist.

 

[L.K.Eder]

infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well no, you haven't shown any evidence, that's the whole problem here. You seem to be making an irrational judgement of the man without evidence. I'm going to defend him against false allegations until you present some evidence.

I can disrespect someone who's son died in service if they disrespect me. Your son dying in service doesn't make you immune from being disrespected when you're disrespecting others. The same goes for war heroes and civil rights icons. Your past deeds don't insulate you from criticism.

I gave plenty of evidence.
No, he is a politician. Politicians need to be above the fray. They are supposed to be dignified. Don't get me wrong. I don't expect that from Trump. After all, he is nothing more than dressed up trailer trash.

 

[asaratis]

Well no, you haven't shown any evidence, that's the whole problem here. You seem to be making an irrational judgement of the man without evidence. I'm going to defend him against false allegations until you present some evidence.

I can disrespect someone who's son died in service if they disrespect me. Your son dying in service doesn't make you immune from being disrespected when you're disrespecting others. The same goes for war heroes and civil rights icons. Your past deeds don't insulate you from criticism.

I gave plenty of evidence.
No, he is a politician. Politicians need to be above the fray. They are supposed to be dignified. Don't get me wrong. I don't expect that from Trump. After all, he is nothing more than dressed up trailer trash.

Hey, Boss! See ^^^^^^ what I mean? Puerile little people!

 

[Dr Grump]

Hey, Boss! See ^^^^^^ what I mean? Puerile little people!

Hey, People! See what I mean? A Deplorable that can type. Amazing...

 

[Dr Grump]

[
Regarding President Trump, I believe he should be given at least 100 days to SHOW that he is going to be a good President.

I think he should be given that too. However, that'll be 100 days more than the right gave Obama. I doubt the left are going to forget.

 

[pwjohn]

Indeed, this thread being a classic example. OP pretends to pose an open question and as soon as he gets honest answers proceeds to shoot down any that don't wend their way to the hero-worship he's after.

Again, I am not a "Trump supporter" and didn't vote for Trump. There are lots of things I disagree with him on and I think his style is kind of reckless and immature sometimes. I don't think he is racist, homophobic or misogynistic. Nor do I think he is mentally unstable or disturbed, or anything like Adolph Hitler. I am here asking you for evidence and a reasonable discussion but all you can show me are emotively-charged and partisan opinions and conjecture. If that's all you have, that's all you have.

Still talking out of your ass I see. You really should get that thing tuned up.