Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you misread the tense. This statement was made in connection with the post-Agreement phase. Relative to the comment made by MJB12741: "The worst punishment Israel could inflict on the Palestinians would be self government,with self determination without having Israel to suck off of to support them any longer."

The United States government has announced a new contribution of nearly US$ 68 million to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), including more than US$ 3.8 million for the construction of a multipurpose school building in Zohour to replace the current rented facilities and more than $1.3 million for the extension of Jordan Field operations support office (OSO). The majority of the nearly $68 million contribution will go to the Agency's Programme Budget to support more than 170 UNRWA schools in Jordan; as well as its health clinics and social services programmes, which help Palestine refugees’ efforts to stay healthy and secure.
SOURCE: UNRWA US Announces Additional $68M Contribution to Support Palestine Refugee

This is all about what happens after (if ever) the Israelis and the Palestinians agree and begin a withdrawal from the West Bank.

Not true. The money the US gives to the "Palestinians" is to protect Israel.

(COMMENT)

First, the return on US Dollar Investment given to the Palestinians is not now, nor expected to be in the future, about the protection of Israel; not even the US Security Assistance funding for PA Security Forces. It is about setting the conditions to meet Article 43 HR (law and order) prior to an agreed upon withdrawal from the West Bank.

View attachment 90425​

The effectiveness of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians in furthering U.S. policy objectives might be defined by answers to the following questions:

( Quote From U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians CRS RS22967 18 MAR 16)
 How does it affect U.S. influence with Palestinians in working toward regional policy objectives?
 How does it address short-term (i.e., humanitarian) needs?
 How does it address longer-term development, governance, and reform efforts?​

Again, you misunderstand the various purposes for the various kinds of funding, and how the change in conditions changes the direction and focus of funding.

If the Palestinians were to come forth with acceptable conditions that actually (not theoretically) lead to a withdrawal, the US will in all probability, cut a substantial portion of funding to the PA (or successor government); simply because the US would not want that funding to be used in hostile activities against Israel. Likewise, the US would increase funding to Israel's defensive capabilities to offset the potential for staging Arab Forces (Hostile Arab Palestinians) within 9 miles of Netanya, 10 miles from Beersheba, and 11 miles from Tel Aviv.

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security. In fact, one only needs to read this Discussion Group and watch as violent events occur and the low and order declines relative to the safety and security of Israeli Citizens. Incident levels are increasing --- not decreasing.

Most Respectfully,
R

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

 

[Shusha]

What treaty mention a "Jewish Palestine?"

Treaty of Sevres. Article 95.

Treaty of Sevres was not ratified.

I guess you should have specified that when you made your comment. You meant to say: What ratified treaty mention a "Jewish Palestine".

 

[P F Tinmore]

What treaty mention a "Jewish Palestine?"

Treaty of Sevres. Article 95.

Treaty of Sevres was not ratified.

Actually, yes it was, endorsed by the Ottoman's.

It was not ratified and was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you misread the tense. This statement was made in connection with the post-Agreement phase. Relative to the comment made by MJB12741: "The worst punishment Israel could inflict on the Palestinians would be self government,with self determination without having Israel to suck off of to support them any longer."

This is all about what happens after (if ever) the Israelis and the Palestinians agree and begin a withdrawal from the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

First, the return on US Dollar Investment given to the Palestinians is not now, nor expected to be in the future, about the protection of Israel; not even the US Security Assistance funding for PA Security Forces. It is about setting the conditions to meet Article 43 HR (law and order) prior to an agreed upon withdrawal from the West Bank.

View attachment 90425​

The effectiveness of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians in furthering U.S. policy objectives might be defined by answers to the following questions:

( Quote From U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians CRS RS22967 18 MAR 16)
 How does it affect U.S. influence with Palestinians in working toward regional policy objectives?
 How does it address short-term (i.e., humanitarian) needs?
 How does it address longer-term development, governance, and reform efforts?​

Again, you misunderstand the various purposes for the various kinds of funding, and how the change in conditions changes the direction and focus of funding.

If the Palestinians were to come forth with acceptable conditions that actually (not theoretically) lead to a withdrawal, the US will in all probability, cut a substantial portion of funding to the PA (or successor government); simply because the US would not want that funding to be used in hostile activities against Israel. Likewise, the US would increase funding to Israel's defensive capabilities to offset the potential for staging Arab Forces (Hostile Arab Palestinians) within 9 miles of Netanya, 10 miles from Beersheba, and 11 miles from Tel Aviv.

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security. In fact, one only needs to read this Discussion Group and watch as violent events occur and the low and order declines relative to the safety and security of Israeli Citizens. Incident levels are increasing --- not decreasing.

Most Respectfully,
R

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

Israel's targeting killing was a big problem in Gaza. Hamas cracked down on collaborators now targeted killings are rare. Some of those worked for the "PA" and some worked directly for Israel.

You are taking things out of context.

Well, as long as targeted killings by Hamas are rare, I'm OK with an occasional Islamic terrorist goon squad bumping off an islamic terrorist.

 

[Shusha]

The territory was ceded to the control of the Allied Powers for the purpose of self-determination and self-government of various groups as they became capable of said government.​

No they didn't. Read Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.

You make no sense. The intent of the Mandate trusteeship was to provide tutelage by advanced nations until such time as the provisionally recognized governments were able to stand alone. THAT is from Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, which I am fairly certain you are fond of quoting. That was the INTENT of the Mandate system. You can't possibly be arguing that this was NOT the intent of the Mandate.

What has Article 30 got to do with the intent of the Mandate system?

Are you meaning to say that Article 30 creates some sort of sovereignty or State? Are you saying that the boundaries of various territories under the Mandate can NEVER be changed because Article 30 "fixes" them permanently? How, exactly, does saying that all peoples who normally reside in a particular territory should become nationals of whatever new State is created there in any way affect boundaries or sovereignty?

Now I know you are confused.

Help me out then.
My comment was a part of the process of the State of Israel coming into being. I said, in part: The territory was ceded to the control of the Allied Powers for the purpose of self-determination and self-government of various groups as they became capable of said government.

And then asked you which parts of the process I outlined that you disagreed with. You disagree with the part that says "As they became capable of said government". Then you say it has to do with Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.

So connect the dots. How does an article in a treaty about citizenship grant sovereignty over territory?

 

[flacaltenn]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you misread the tense. This statement was made in connection with the post-Agreement phase. Relative to the comment made by MJB12741: "The worst punishment Israel could inflict on the Palestinians would be self government,with self determination without having Israel to suck off of to support them any longer."

This is all about what happens after (if ever) the Israelis and the Palestinians agree and begin a withdrawal from the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

First, the return on US Dollar Investment given to the Palestinians is not now, nor expected to be in the future, about the protection of Israel; not even the US Security Assistance funding for PA Security Forces. It is about setting the conditions to meet Article 43 HR (law and order) prior to an agreed upon withdrawal from the West Bank.

View attachment 90425​

The effectiveness of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians in furthering U.S. policy objectives might be defined by answers to the following questions:

( Quote From U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians CRS RS22967 18 MAR 16)
 How does it affect U.S. influence with Palestinians in working toward regional policy objectives?
 How does it address short-term (i.e., humanitarian) needs?
 How does it address longer-term development, governance, and reform efforts?​

Again, you misunderstand the various purposes for the various kinds of funding, and how the change in conditions changes the direction and focus of funding.

If the Palestinians were to come forth with acceptable conditions that actually (not theoretically) lead to a withdrawal, the US will in all probability, cut a substantial portion of funding to the PA (or successor government); simply because the US would not want that funding to be used in hostile activities against Israel. Likewise, the US would increase funding to Israel's defensive capabilities to offset the potential for staging Arab Forces (Hostile Arab Palestinians) within 9 miles of Netanya, 10 miles from Beersheba, and 11 miles from Tel Aviv.

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security. In fact, one only needs to read this Discussion Group and watch as violent events occur and the low and order declines relative to the safety and security of Israeli Citizens. Incident levels are increasing --- not decreasing.

Most Respectfully,
R

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

Israel's targeting killing was a big problem in Gaza. Hamas cracked down on collaborators now targeted killings are rare. Some of those worked for the "PA" and some worked directly for Israel.

You are taking things out of context.

I'm sure that what's the judge and jury said before they killed in public street executions. They are BRUTAL killers and not fun to live with. They are never gonna lead Palestine to statehood. They are gonna make the entire Pali cause stale and not viable.

 

[Hollie]

What treaty mention a "Jewish Palestine?"

Treaty of Sevres. Article 95.

Treaty of Sevres was not ratified.

Actually, yes it was, endorsed by the Ottoman's.

It was not ratified and was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne.

The Ottoman's endorsed the treaty of Sevres. More of your attempt to re-write history you don't understand.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

Israel's targeting killing was a big problem in Gaza. Hamas cracked down on collaborators now targeted killings are rare. Some of those worked for the "PA" and some worked directly for Israel.

You are taking things out of context.

Well, as long as targeted killings by Hamas are rare, I'm OK with an occasional Islamic terrorist goon squad bumping off an islamic terrorist.

 

[flacaltenn]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you misread the tense. This statement was made in connection with the post-Agreement phase. Relative to the comment made by MJB12741: "The worst punishment Israel could inflict on the Palestinians would be self government,with self determination without having Israel to suck off of to support them any longer."

This is all about what happens after (if ever) the Israelis and the Palestinians agree and begin a withdrawal from the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

First, the return on US Dollar Investment given to the Palestinians is not now, nor expected to be in the future, about the protection of Israel; not even the US Security Assistance funding for PA Security Forces. It is about setting the conditions to meet Article 43 HR (law and order) prior to an agreed upon withdrawal from the West Bank.

View attachment 90425​

The effectiveness of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians in furthering U.S. policy objectives might be defined by answers to the following questions:

( Quote From U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians CRS RS22967 18 MAR 16)
 How does it affect U.S. influence with Palestinians in working toward regional policy objectives?
 How does it address short-term (i.e., humanitarian) needs?
 How does it address longer-term development, governance, and reform efforts?​

Again, you misunderstand the various purposes for the various kinds of funding, and how the change in conditions changes the direction and focus of funding.

If the Palestinians were to come forth with acceptable conditions that actually (not theoretically) lead to a withdrawal, the US will in all probability, cut a substantial portion of funding to the PA (or successor government); simply because the US would not want that funding to be used in hostile activities against Israel. Likewise, the US would increase funding to Israel's defensive capabilities to offset the potential for staging Arab Forces (Hostile Arab Palestinians) within 9 miles of Netanya, 10 miles from Beersheba, and 11 miles from Tel Aviv.

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security. In fact, one only needs to read this Discussion Group and watch as violent events occur and the low and order declines relative to the safety and security of Israeli Citizens. Incident levels are increasing --- not decreasing.

Most Respectfully,
R

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you misread the tense. This statement was made in connection with the post-Agreement phase. Relative to the comment made by MJB12741: "The worst punishment Israel could inflict on the Palestinians would be self government,with self determination without having Israel to suck off of to support them any longer."

This is all about what happens after (if ever) the Israelis and the Palestinians agree and begin a withdrawal from the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

First, the return on US Dollar Investment given to the Palestinians is not now, nor expected to be in the future, about the protection of Israel; not even the US Security Assistance funding for PA Security Forces. It is about setting the conditions to meet Article 43 HR (law and order) prior to an agreed upon withdrawal from the West Bank.

View attachment 90425​

The effectiveness of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians in furthering U.S. policy objectives might be defined by answers to the following questions:

( Quote From U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians CRS RS22967 18 MAR 16)
 How does it affect U.S. influence with Palestinians in working toward regional policy objectives?
 How does it address short-term (i.e., humanitarian) needs?
 How does it address longer-term development, governance, and reform efforts?​

Again, you misunderstand the various purposes for the various kinds of funding, and how the change in conditions changes the direction and focus of funding.

If the Palestinians were to come forth with acceptable conditions that actually (not theoretically) lead to a withdrawal, the US will in all probability, cut a substantial portion of funding to the PA (or successor government); simply because the US would not want that funding to be used in hostile activities against Israel. Likewise, the US would increase funding to Israel's defensive capabilities to offset the potential for staging Arab Forces (Hostile Arab Palestinians) within 9 miles of Netanya, 10 miles from Beersheba, and 11 miles from Tel Aviv.

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security. In fact, one only needs to read this Discussion Group and watch as violent events occur and the low and order declines relative to the safety and security of Israeli Citizens. Incident levels are increasing --- not decreasing.

Most Respectfully,
R

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

But yeah, these fine folks are stateworthy. Islamo-justice is a wonder to behold.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

Israel's targeting killing was a big problem in Gaza. Hamas cracked down on collaborators now targeted killings are rare. Some of those worked for the "PA" and some worked directly for Israel.

You are taking things out of context.

I'm sure that what's the judge and jury said before they killed in public street executions. They are BRUTAL killers and not fun to live with. They are never gonna lead Palestine to statehood. They are gonna make the entire Pali cause stale and not viable.

Good points. I don't support Hamas' methods.

 

[flacaltenn]

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

But yeah, these fine folks are stateworthy. Islamo-justice is a wonder to behold.

If that's their choice, and it makes them happy -- I'm all for it. Wouldn't be the ONLY state in the UN with those handicaps. What can not be tolerated -- is to have that state hijacked by radicalized Islamists with a tendency to project violence across their borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Currently, the US is getting virtually no return on its investment from the US Dollars and equipment provided to the PA, relative to Israeli Security.​

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

 

[Hollie]

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

Of course. Rocket fire at Israel, inciting the good Arab-Moslem terrorist to attack Israelis with knives, building tunnels instead of schools and hospitals... pursuing their own path to incompetence, ineptitude and retrogression.

 

[Hollie]

Yep. Pursuing their own path to.... just another Islamist dystopia.

Fearing Hamas win, Fatah officials call on Abbas to cancel elections: report

Officials from the ruling Palestinian Fatah party are reportedly to be so concerned rival jihadist group Hamas will secure an overwhelming victory in the upcoming elections that they have called for the vote to be cancelled.

 

[flacaltenn]

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

That's anarchy, chaos, and self-destructive behavior. They get their act TOGETHER or they become another failed "indigenous people".. You can't wing it by 3000 yr old rules in a neighborhood like that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You don't give military aid to a place that has no generally agreed upon govt. And is split between rival factions that want to kill each other. . Are you nutz? That shouldn't even BE on the table until the proper leadership and authorities are in place.

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening

 

[P F Tinmore]

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

That's anarchy, chaos, and self-destructive behavior. They get their act TOGETHER or they become another failed "indigenous people".. You can't wing it by 3000 yr old rules in a neighborhood like that.

You say that the Palestinian leaders suck.

The Palestinians agree with you.

 

[skye]

As has been the norm for a decade, the Oslo Accords-created Palestinian Authority has "postponed" the October elections. Unsure of the vote's outcome, Abbas's "Supreme Court" ordered the delay while they consider 2 election related issues.

While this is not an unusual move in places where the rule of law plays second fiddle to the ruling regime's whim, it illustrates the failure of Palestinians to establish an electoral democracy and a genuinely functional state.

The ascension of Hamas prompted the PA's Fatah ruling party to tighten their grip on their share of power which is most of the West Bank, creating 2 separate and competing national gov'ts.

While Fatah's intention - the exclusion of a known terrorist gang from governance - may have been pragmatic, the result has been to engender oppression. Fatah correctly sees cooperation with Israel and the international community as the path to an independent state. Hamas sees the destruction of Israel as the only solution.

As things now stand the PA must either to form a single gov't with the rule of law and peaceful coexistence as its goals or to continue with Gaza and the WB as separate entities and perhaps create a WB Palestinian State sans Gaza.

The choice is, as always, theirs.

Next month’s Palestinian local elections aren’t happening. Here’s why. [excerpted]

...The Palestinian Authority is an electoral democracy in name, but the governments that rule in the West Bank and Gaza are effectively one-party regimes. Following Hamas’s victory in 2006, violent clashes resulted in the Islamist movement seizing control of the Gaza Strip and taking over PA institutions there, including the Interior Ministry, public police and security forces. Fatah, for its part, purged much of the central PA authority structures in the West Bank of Hamas supporters. Today, these two islands of Palestinian rule persist — each under the seemingly firm grip of a single party.

Yet beneath the surface of these coercive states, sporadic episodes of relative self-rule at the local level in the West Bank and Gaza have made local elections a historically important harbinger of political sentiment. In a setting where it is unclear how the population’s interests are being represented at the national level, subnational elections are a valuable mechanism for opposition movements to form popular bases and demonstrate competence in governance. Local elections, just as they did for a brief time when Israel directly ruled the territories, have served as an important, if not entirely even, counterweight to autocratic authority. Perhaps more important, they have often served as the bellwether of fundamental shifts in the Palestinian resistance movement.

The Palestinians are completely hopeless and corrupt at governing themselves and if it wasn't for aid mainly from the EU they would by now be starving and not able to generously pay the relatives of the dead Palestinians who were eliminated for terrorists attacks.

They are afraid of holding an election because Hamas could well win and Abbas is now deeply unpopular and called a Jew for shaking Netanyahu's hand at the funeral of Perez.

Abbas always have been corrupt and this Taqiyya handshake backfired - he is on the way out.

Who knows what can happen next, may be Dahlan will take over.

 

[flacaltenn]

The security forces in the illegal "PA" in the West Bank is armed, paid, and trained by the US to take out Hamas and other resistance factions. The so called unity government wants to put those forces in Gaza. Of course Hamas is opposed to that. Hamas ran those US supported forces out of Gaza in 2007.

Besides -- you're so deep into denying the Pali failings in this crisis to realize that the BIGGER threat are murders and public street executions that Hamas conducts in Gaza. There is no continued "purge" in the West Bank -- but it's a feature of life in Gaza.

There are hundreds of Hamas members in "PA" jails who have not violated any law.

You should fix that then. You are so wrapped into the problems of Pali nationalism, that you cannot think about all the real work that needs to be done for the Palis to a discover a better form of "zionism". And to finally decide to be "a nation" rather than stone-throwing martyrs.

Probably never gonna happen. Which is why I've accepted that others need to this for them. Whether it takes the form of "reservations" or vibrant city states is up to THEM. Not up to me or even YOU..

Some people deserve to have stones thrown at them.

That said:

The Palestinians are ignoring their so called leadership and are pursuing their own path to liberation.

Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening

That lady is an enemy of any self-governing Palestine. You may THINK she's a hero. But with the admission that the Palestinians are inherently "state-less people in a world of nation states" -- she BELITTLES them and marginalizes them to nothing but mere victims of modernity.

Which would be the mind-set of a very leftist NY lawyer who has never faced down a Hamas Human Rights violation in Gaza.

No nationalism, no unity, -----> no Palestine. That's just the facts PFT. If you want to believe that marginalizing the ABILITIES of the Palis to choose leadership and their will to BUILD a nation is a GOOD THING -- you've already doomed them to failure and obscurity and wasted lives.