Can government be expected to make life "fair"?

[∑₭o Đ∆Żə]

The fact is, we're still just now finding out what this health care reform bill actually contians. Breaking news today says that some new rules of it will debut on Sept. 23rd. But if you listened to the rationales the president and his supporters gave for it all along, I'm not sure how you could disagree my premise.

 

[Charles_Main]

Speaking of inbreeding, redean is the Single Branch Family Tree Poster Moron.

Equality under the law is not the same as equality of outcome. We can't have both.

So you believe that nonsense too? Didn't see that one coming.

Oh they can make us all equally poor, they can not make us all equally rich

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I've yet to meet anyone in US Politics that thinks the government can make things "fair."

I do believe that there is a role in government of making sure you get a fair shot. After that, its all up to you.

 

[rightwinger]

I've yet to meet anyone in US Politics that thinks the government can make things "fair."

I do believe that there is a role in government of making sure you get a fair shot. After that, its all up to you.

And there are plenty who believe giving people a fair shot equates to socialism

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I've yet to meet anyone in US Politics that thinks the government can make things "fair."

I do believe that there is a role in government of making sure you get a fair shot. After that, its all up to you.

And there are plenty who believe giving people a fair shot equates to socialism

The alternative is to allow the US to devolve into a class system. Ensuring that those willing to put on the work and take the chances have class mobility is essential to ensuring democracy continues.

That's why its important to make sure everyone has access to a high quality education. A good education is the best way to make class mobility possible. The fact so many kids today do not have access to a good education is a tragedy.

 

[∑₭o Đ∆Żə]

I'll bet there are those who would call 'fairness' the rewarding of failure and incompetence, and the penalizing of success and excellence.

 

[rightwinger]

I've yet to meet anyone in US Politics that thinks the government can make things "fair."

I do believe that there is a role in government of making sure you get a fair shot. After that, its all up to you.

And there are plenty who believe giving people a fair shot equates to socialism

The alternative is to allow the US to devolve into a class system. Ensuring that those willing to put on the work and take the chances have class mobility is essential to ensuring democracy continues.

That's why its important to make sure everyone has access to a high quality education. A good education is the best way to make class mobility possible. The fact so many kids today do not have access to a good education is a tragedy.

And obtaining a high quality education is becoming harder and harde for working class Americans to afford. They saddle themselves with college debt with the hope that that college education is the key to success.

 

[rikules]

Sorry folks. Life is not "fair" so how can you expect the government to do something that was never meant to be?

seems to me that dog eat big black dog concept of life is rather outdated

something for more primitive and uncivilized specimens of humanity

seems to me that the whole point of technology and civilization is to promote greater good and welfare for the most people

and not just the biggest black dogs

if I work on creating a robot that does my job so that my boss can fire me....
perhaps I shouldn't build that robot in the first place....

I don't believe we should be marching into the future looking for ways to put as many people as possible into poverty

we should be looking for ways to ensure that MOST people (or all) live decent and pleasant lives

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

...yadda...yadda...

Question: How did you get those special symbols for your name?

∑₭o Đ∆Żə

Pretty motherfuckin' cool!

There is that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

"Those who level do not equalise"

-Edmund Burke


There are two main philosophies in politics today; one is that the role of law and government is to render justice, to stop corruption, and to be sure that no one's fundamental human rights are stepped on. The other is that government has the responsibility to ensure equal outcomes in every situation, regardless of the individual's actions and/or the level of their participation.

Of course, the first one is a basic description of our own Constitutional and limited form of government. The second is the political philosophy of Marxism, and arguably is also that of what's been called "The Obama Doctrine".

We've all heard the saying; "no one ever said that life was going to be fair". This always seems to have a bitter ring to it and is usually said by someone who's essentially throwing a bucket of cold water on someone's hopes and dreams -- however naive they may have been.

.....Kinda like the whole all-volunteer-military trip.

In the interest of keeping their own kids outta-the-line-o'-fire, more-pro$perou$ "conservatives" made damned-sure (after 'Nam) that their spawn would never be inconvenienced with military-service.

I hope they're satisfied with themselves; having driven other-peoples' kids MAD!!!!!!!!!

"They chumped us. Anyone can be chumped.

That's you now. Just fewer trees and less water."​

 

[∑₭o Đ∆Żə]

So rikules, where exactly do you see "big black dogs" getting eaten in our society, and what do you propose we should do about it?

 

[boedicca]

Yes, let's be like Britain:

UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph


The masses are all equal in being subjected to rationing and long waits while the Ruling Elite get the very best of care (no doubt).

 

[∑₭o Đ∆Żə]

Mr. Shaman,

Great example! "Where is the outcry... where is the injustice?" (list them all below).

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Fair always seems to entail somebody else being dragged down. Funny how that works. People like Sheman never speak of building people up, only tearing others down in the interest of promoting what they consider fair.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I'll bet there are those who would call 'fairness' the rewarding of failure and incompetence, and the penalizing of success and excellence.

Who?

You're indulging in a Strawman argument here. As I said, I've never seen one person on this board, or for that matter out in the real world, advocate government focing total equality on a financial level.

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.

 

[rikules]

So rikules, where exactly do you see "big black dogs" getting eaten in our society, and what do you propose we should do about it?

I didn't say that I see it happening

but it did happen long ago, back in the late 1800's and early 1900's

government backed big business was "employing" people for slave wages, making them work 12-16 hour days, 6 days a week, quite often in unhealthy working conditions, while these workers lived in shacks and shambles and poverty

what was done about it?

unions, and SOME politicians worked together to establish fairer employment policies and practices; more reasonable working hours, 5 day work week, healthier working conditions, health and dental benefits, holidays, vacations....

some people have expressed a dog eat dog attitude with regards to government and the capitalistic system; basically stating that the government should NOT BE HELPING the workers but, instead, should let employers/big business/the "capitalists" do as they please...

if left to do as they please I have no doubt we'd all be working 16 hours, 6 days a week, in unhealthy conditions and living in shacks again...

is THAT the kind of country you want?

how many weeks vacation do you get each year (thanks to government getting involved in capitalism)?

do you work in healthy conditions? (thanks to goverment involvement)

 

[boedicca]

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.

Agreed. Hence the increasing unpopularity of Obama's Big Government Putsch which takes way individuals' abilities to earn their own fair shot.

 

[rikules]

I'll bet there are those who would call 'fairness' the rewarding of failure and incompetence, and the penalizing of success and excellence.

Who?

You're indulging in a Strawman argument here. As I said, I've never seen one person on this board, or for that matter out in the real world, advocate government focing total equality on a financial level.

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.

Some of the posters seem to believe that a truly great America would be one in which 90% of the population lived in shacks, worked 6 days a week, never got a vacation, had no health care, couldn't afford to feed their own children etc....just so multi millionares could become multi billionares

 

[boedicca]

Some of the posters seem to believe that a truly great America would be one in which 90% of the population lived in shacks, worked 6 days a week, never got a vacation, had no health care, couldn't afford to feed their own children etc....just so multi millionares could become multi billionares

I call Shenigans.

Post a link to someone here who advocates for this.

 

[Urkie]

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.

Agreed. Hence the increasing unpopularity of Obama's Big Government Putsch which takes way individuals' abilities to earn their own fair shot.

That's not what he said. He said most Americans want to feel they got a fair shot.

So with that, please explain how Obama is taking away an individuals ability to get a fair shot? I really want to know.