Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

[AVG-JOE]

Give me a break. I don't provide links to anti-Christian pieces of shit who troll the religion forums.

Anti-Christian piece of shit, eh? I can take it if it makes you feel better...

I wonder what your God thinks of your hatred?

That's not hatred, that's just the truth. You troll the religion forum, you're a mod..that makes you an anti-Christian piece of shit. I guess I could call you something else..but it wouldn't be as accurate.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Kiddo.

 

[Chuckt]

Oh, there is that word Repent....if Peter had lived today he would be accused of being a legalist.

I can do better than that, Jeri. You have to repent and keep on repenting because you (man) still sins:

The initial message of Jesus Christ found in Mark 1:15 was this. He said, "Repent." Then he said, "and believe." That is not in the aorist tense – aorist means that at a specific point in time, do it – it is in the present imperative. Present tense means repent and keep on repenting. The imperative mood means it is a command. Believe and keep on believing. That was God’s message. It is not a one-time repentance. It is the one time, initial coming to know Christ and repenting of our sin, but it is also a daily living in light of the fact that we choose the wrong things and we daily have to repent and change our behavior for Him.

The second false confession is where we are going to start this time. Three times he says, "If we say." Verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." What is he saying here? Well, first of all, the "we have" there is in the present tense. We are in the state of having no sin. In other words, we have reached that place. Spirituality is an attainment. We finally arrived and we don’t have to deal with sin anymore. John goes on to say if we say that, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The word "deceiving" is the word planao. We get the word "planet" from it. The idea is, if we are saying this, that we don’t have to deal with sin anymore, we are like a planet wandering around. There is no direction in our life. Have you ever noticed people who have problems in their life and they don’t want to have to deal with personal sin? It is almost as if they have come beyond that. Something else is the matter but not sin. You can’t get them to sit down and realize that sin is the problem. These people never seem to come to any solutions. They never come to any answers. Why? Because they are deceiving themselves by saying they don’t have any sin. We have got to understand that sin still is in the life of a believer. A believer has to deal with sin.

The Believer and Sin - Part 1
1 John 1:8-10
by Dr. Wayne A. Barber

You still sin.

 

[Chuckt]

I found the verses on sin in Ephesians 4:17-24. Just because we're Christians doesn't mean we can't sin and we're supposed to put away lying (Ephesians 4:25) and put off the old man (Ephesians 4:22) and put on the new man (Ephesians 4:24). Since we're still in this body, the old man is attached till the day we depart from this life and go to be with the Lord. Just because we receive the spirit doesn't mean that we won't depend on the old (proteros) manner of life (anastrophe). Until we learn how to walk in the new man, we will probably fall back to the old man.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former (proteros) conversation (anastrophe) the old man (old, no longer new, worse for wear), which is corrupt (destroyed, depraved) according to the deceitful lusts (desire for what is forbidden);

 

[koshergrl]

Anti-Christian piece of shit, eh? I can take it if it makes you feel better...

I wonder what your God thinks of your hatred?

That's not hatred, that's just the truth. You troll the religion forum, you're a mod..that makes you an anti-Christian piece of shit. I guess I could call you something else..but it wouldn't be as accurate.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Kiddo.

Er..thanks, but I don't need your permission.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

Nazarenes and Holiness Wesleyans disagree with you.

 

[Chuckt]

Got a link to what? Them acutally appearing in the arms of Christ?

A link to actual proof would be awesome, but I'll take a link to one of the Ancient Stories, chapter and verse, that states plainly that children who die get a free pass regardless of beliefs and circumstances.

Joe,

Please ask me next time.

Chuck

Original Sin and Babies not being baptized
Chuckt (C) 2-27-2009

Adam and Eve were the only ones made in God's image. Adam and Eve then sinned and God gave the curse. In Genesis 3:15-20 there are changes to the nature of Adam and Eve due to the curse and sin entering into the world which are not a part of God's attributes because God doesn't die except for the human attributes He put on which did. After Adam and Eve, the Bible says that children were made in Adam's fallen image:

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

I want to make the distinction that the Bible doesn't say that Seth was made in God's image but that Seth was made in Adam's image.

Death wasn't part of Adam's image before the fall:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Children die and death is part of the curse so death is something that wasn't there in the beginning. Is death inherited?

Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3 speak of original sin:

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

As far as babies being baptized, I think it is an unscriptural practice.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

You can't believe for babies so you can't save them by baptizing them. This doesn't mean that babies are damned.


I believe that God is just. There is a difference between not having a chance to believe and rejecting Jesus (John 12:48).

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Children might sin but they are the responsibility of their parents:

Leviticus 16:16 says that they can make an atonement for all their sins. Verse 17 says that he can make "an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel."

Another thing is that the Bible teaches levels of responsibility:

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

You might want to ask how much is required of babies or children.

There are also examples of God witholding judgment from people who don't know the difference between right and wrong:

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and [also] much cattle?

Luke 18:16 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

2 Samual 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell [whether] GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

2 Samual 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

I can make further arguments but this is already taking up too much time.

Next time don't ask people who are going to argue with you and not take you seriously.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Obedience is true Worship. This is what God desires from us is to live holy, obey God, if we sin we have a Savior we can repent to and ask forgiveness and he will be faithful to forgive us but this is not to be part of the life of a believer. Living in sin. God forbid. Now if we worship God with unfeigned lips and praise him with a song with a melody then this is pleasing to him. If we do not desire in our hearts to obey him how can we sing words such as I surrender all? How can we praise him? Speaking of which....what should we praise him for? That He is God! That he is holy! That he alone is worthy!

Yes, and as Karen Wheaton said, I praise you, God, not just for moving that mountain! I praise you for the mountain! Yes! It is good to praise God for our trials, for our hardships, for our sufferings.. Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered! We learn obedience by the things we suffer also! It's true. Speaking of praise this is a beautiful praise song! God is worthy of our praises. And our obedience.


[ame=http://youtu.be/7arHO-onJI8]Karen Wheaton For Every Mountain Video Produced By Music4HimNow Ministry - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Chuckt]

Obedience is true Worship. This is what God desires from us is to live holy, obey God, if we sin we have a Savior we can repent to and ask forgiveness and he will be faithful to forgive us but this is not to be part of the life of a believer. Living in sin. God forbid. Now if we worship God with unfeigned lips and praise him with a song with a melody then this is pleasing to him. If we do not desire in our hearts to obey him how can we sing words such as I surrender all? How can we praise him? Speaking of which....what should we praise him for? That He is God! That he is holy! That he alone is worthy!

So what happens to you if you sin and get run over by a car before you have a chance to repent? Do you go to heaven or hell?

Remember, you preached perfectionism. And that is the thing that contradicts what you are teaching if you say you go to heaven.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Maybe perfection in the eyes of God is trying your best. That would reflect Love on His part.

As goals go, that's a popular one at least.

 

[Chuckt]

Maybe perfection in the eyes of God is trying your best. That would reflect Love on His part.

As goals go, that's a popular one at least.

We can't be perfect for past sins. Have Jeri explain that one.

We are justified by faith because of Jesus' finished work on the cross.

If Jeri wants to condemn Christians for sins then she has to live by the same standard because God will judge her by the same standard:

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, (on him) that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Oh, there is that word Repent....if Peter had lived today he would be accused of being a legalist.

I can do better than that, Jeri. You have to repent and keep on repenting because you (man) still sins:

The initial message of Jesus Christ found in Mark 1:15 was this. He said, "Repent." Then he said, "and believe." That is not in the aorist tense – aorist means that at a specific point in time, do it – it is in the present imperative. Present tense means repent and keep on repenting. The imperative mood means it is a command. Believe and keep on believing. That was God’s message. It is not a one-time repentance. It is the one time, initial coming to know Christ and repenting of our sin, but it is also a daily living in light of the fact that we choose the wrong things and we daily have to repent and change our behavior for Him.

The second false confession is where we are going to start this time. Three times he says, "If we say." Verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." What is he saying here? Well, first of all, the "we have" there is in the present tense. We are in the state of having no sin. In other words, we have reached that place. Spirituality is an attainment. We finally arrived and we don’t have to deal with sin anymore. John goes on to say if we say that, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The word "deceiving" is the word planao. We get the word "planet" from it. The idea is, if we are saying this, that we don’t have to deal with sin anymore, we are like a planet wandering around. There is no direction in our life. Have you ever noticed people who have problems in their life and they don’t want to have to deal with personal sin? It is almost as if they have come beyond that. Something else is the matter but not sin. You can’t get them to sit down and realize that sin is the problem. These people never seem to come to any solutions. They never come to any answers. Why? Because they are deceiving themselves by saying they don’t have any sin. We have got to understand that sin still is in the life of a believer. A believer has to deal with sin.

The Believer and Sin - Part 1
1 John 1:8-10
by Dr. Wayne A. Barber

You still sin.

Get thee behind me, Satan.

It is written:

Then neither do I condemn you Jesus declared, Go now and leave your life of sin.

- John 8:11 New International Version Bible

Again it is written:

And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more.

- John 8: 11 King James Version Bible

!

 

[BreezeWood]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

... here on earth.

Yes - there is no reason to believe a Bible is necessary for an Individual on their own merit to accomplish Remission to the Everlasting before their last breath.

a Triumph against Evil is its own reward that is accomplished by its complete destruction, a Sabbath and is the means for Gods return as prophesied by the parable of Noah as the goal to become sinless.

 

[Chuckt]

Oh, there is that word Repent....if Peter had lived today he would be accused of being a legalist.

I can do better than that, Jeri. You have to repent and keep on repenting because you (man) still sins:

The initial message of Jesus Christ found in Mark 1:15 was this. He said, "Repent." Then he said, "and believe." That is not in the aorist tense – aorist means that at a specific point in time, do it – it is in the present imperative. Present tense means repent and keep on repenting. The imperative mood means it is a command. Believe and keep on believing. That was God’s message. It is not a one-time repentance. It is the one time, initial coming to know Christ and repenting of our sin, but it is also a daily living in light of the fact that we choose the wrong things and we daily have to repent and change our behavior for Him.

The second false confession is where we are going to start this time. Three times he says, "If we say." Verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." What is he saying here? Well, first of all, the "we have" there is in the present tense. We are in the state of having no sin. In other words, we have reached that place. Spirituality is an attainment. We finally arrived and we don’t have to deal with sin anymore. John goes on to say if we say that, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The word "deceiving" is the word planao. We get the word "planet" from it. The idea is, if we are saying this, that we don’t have to deal with sin anymore, we are like a planet wandering around. There is no direction in our life. Have you ever noticed people who have problems in their life and they don’t want to have to deal with personal sin? It is almost as if they have come beyond that. Something else is the matter but not sin. You can’t get them to sit down and realize that sin is the problem. These people never seem to come to any solutions. They never come to any answers. Why? Because they are deceiving themselves by saying they don’t have any sin. We have got to understand that sin still is in the life of a believer. A believer has to deal with sin.

The Believer and Sin - Part 1
1 John 1:8-10
by Dr. Wayne A. Barber

You still sin.

Get thee behind me, Satan.

It is written:

Then neither do I condemn you Jesus declared, Go now and leave your life of sin.

- John 8:11 New International Version Bible

Again it is written:

And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more.

- John 8: 11 King James Version Bible

!

You're not being consistent in your judgments. You quoted John 8:11 and weren't consistent with previous comments:

To him who overcomes the same shall be saved - it is written, Chuck! Jesus said so. Believe Him. Not your own opinion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/324699-deception-in-the-land-2.html#post8161216

You quoted:

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

You are offering me this contradiction.

 

[Vox]

Nobody can live without sinning

 

[AVG-JOE]

Maybe perfection in the eyes of God is trying your best. That would reflect Love on His part.

As goals go, that's a popular one at least.

We can't be perfect for past sins. Have Jeri explain that one.

We are justified by faith because of Jesus' finished work on the cross.

If Jeri wants to condemn Christians for sins then she has to live by the same standard because God will judge her by the same standard:

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, (on him) that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Or...

God and Jeri are working it out same as you and God are - with LIBERAL applications of love and grace. If God is, I believe He'll meet you both on terms that you can afford and accept.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Vox is right, in my opinion.

But I believe my God's mercy is greater than any man's dogma.

Trust in the Lord, folks, do the best you can every day, and go about your business.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Nobody can live without sinning

To err is Monkey?!?

I like it!!​

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I never said a person can be born and live their whole life without sinning. I also made it clear our sins are washed away by the Blood of Jesus Christ when we believe on him just as the blood was put over the doorposts in Exodus 12 : 7 those who have accepted Christ pardon at the Cross and repented of their sins are under the Blood of Jesus- Forgiven and washed clean, made whiter than snow.

HOWEVER!!

If that born again blood washed Christian steps across that threshold back out into the world again they are on the devils playground and if they die while they are out there sinning on it? BAM! They go to hell. Just like if one of the Hebrews had stepped across the threshold before it was morning time. Exodus 12: 22,23 Here I'll quote it for you:

It is written:

Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. NOT ONE OF YOU SHALL GO OUT THE DOOR OF HIS HOUSE UNTIL MORNING. WHEN THE LORD GOES THROUGH THE LAND TO STRIKE DOWN THE EGYPTIANS, HE WILL SEE THE BLOOD ON THE TOPS AND SIDES OF THE DOORFRAMES AND WILL PASS OVER THE DOORWAY, AND HE WILL NOT PERMIT THE DESTROYER TO ENTER YOUR HOUSES, AND STRIKE YOU DOWN. - EXODUS 12: 22,23.

If one of those Hebrews would have stepped over the threshold and disobeyed God the blood would no longer have protected him, the deal would have been OFF, he would have been on his own and deader than a door nail.

Now God knows our hearts -Jesus came to earth and lived in a human body -he understands our weaknesses - if we are walking in obedience to Jesus the best we can - working towards that perfection Paul spoke of - we know in our hearts we are serving him with our whole heart and we are not "living in sin" but rather staying clear of it! Avoiding it! Going the other way! Not living like the world! Not seeking after the worlds stuff! Then we are on the narrow path and the Lord has his eye on us. It is not a sin to be tempted. Jesus was tempted in all things but he sinned not. Jesus had the same Holy Spirit that we have in us today! What excuse do we have, Church? Are you serious?? You'd think Jesus left us orphans! Jesus sent us the Holy Ghost! Get on your feet Soldiers! Do you have the baptism of the Holy Ghost in your or not? If not, ask for it! You have not because you ask not!

If you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It is written. Walk in the Spirit.

Jesus said:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to detruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

- Matthew 7: 13, 14.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I found this song tonight and it seemed quite timely to me so I thought I would put it up. It is called There's a Storm Out Over the Ocean. I have some good scriptures to go with it. Hang on. I will have to type them out for ya'll. Ya'll know when you hear a storm warning you get ready! You batten down the hatches! You get any loose furniture out of the yard and bring it inside. You bring the kids inside. You bring the dog inside. You board up the windows. You park the car in the garage. YOU GET READY! You may have to go somewhere that there is a cellar. Because you have got to get to safety if you are going to make it out alive. Jesus is our safety folks. Obeying Jesus is our safe refuge from the big storm that is coming.


[ame=http://youtu.be/vIZOvSDQwdM]There's A Storm Out Over the Ocean - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Irish Ram]

Do you know how hard it was for the doctors to get my mentally ill stepsister to take her medicine? She said she didn't need it. She said she wasn't sick.

What was the 613 commandments for? To show you your condition. The law was a mirror to show us our condition but you don't go to the mirror to get clean. You go to the mirror to see that you are dirty.

No chuck, the law was given as a light to the nations. The law was given to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil so they might learn to be holy as God is holy in a world that had been for billions of years without shape and void; and darkness covered the face of the deep.

Listen Chuck, it is well known that Jesus taught that obedience to the law, according to his divine revelation, is the way to life.

If you don't care to observe any of the commands of God that scripture teaches is the only way to eternal life, go for it. Just don't blame it on Jesus......Anyone who cares to check the facts will realize that you have either made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself.

Either way for you to mislead others at this point amounts to intentional sin, specifically murder.

Your answers are astonishing me today, Hobelim. You are very, very close to the truth here. What Jesus taught was that "He" is the way to life. He is the the truth, the way and the life - and the door through which we enter in - by His Blood - into the Most Holy Place - having fellowship with G-d the Father. You are right on the mark with your quoting of 1 John 1 : 4 - 10, Hobelim.

Jesus also said, If you love me? You will keep my commandments. He didn't say he would keep them for us. He said to his followers, YOU WILL keep them. If they don't? Well, this is why Jesus said, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would be in heaven where as those who didn't strive ( agonize ) to enter in the strait gate but chose the wide path instead - were cast into outer darkness where there would be weep and gnashing of teeth.

It is our Love for Jesus Christ that will assure we keep his commandments and obey Him. It is the desire of our heart to obey God! It is not a heavy burden but a very light yoke! Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God. Doing the will of God is not works but effortless in that it is not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit sayeth the Lord. We delight to do His will.

The carnal man who desires to live the fleshly life does not delight to do the Will of G-d. He delights in serving G-d according to his own will. Much as Cain offered what he wanted rather than what G-d had asked for. Abel delighted in obeying G-d and Cain did not. Therein the difference of the too. One loved God while the other really didn't. That is why Cain was always worried about what Abel was doing. He could not rest in his own relationship with God because truthfully he didn't have one. So instead he sought to murder his own brother. Did you know that God considers slander to be murder too? He does. Those who slander ( speak falsely against another person ) are murderers in Gods eyes. It is written in the bible.

While you are right that those who teach others they can sin their way to heaven - are guilty of murder - you can expect that they will come back with accusations of legalism, tell you that you are teaching something, under the law, that their doctrine is under grace, that Jesus kept the commandments so they do not have to obey them.. it is a perversion of the truth and Jesus warned the church in Matthew 24 chapter no less than 5 times that the number one challenge of the end times church would be deception.

This is what you are looking at. The church has fallen into great deception and because of this when true persecution comes and the rapture doesn't? The great falling away will happen.

These people you see defending the sin in their lives - who have an entitlement mentality that "God owes them" because they said a Jesus come into my heart prayer a few decades ago...... will be the very same ones who will turn in the true believers in order to save their own lives.

And just as Jesus warned, they will think they are doing God a favor by getting rid of us. Yes, the true believers are going to suffer the exact same fate as the true believers in the book of Acts did. It is a small company of believers - a remnant - but a mighty one. The greatest persecution Jesus and his followers endured came from religious zealots who had no personal relationship with God. Not the average out there lost soul. It is the same way today. Nothing has changed. There is.........as the writer of Ecclesiastes lamented.....nothing new under the sun.

- Jeri

Holy cow.
Chuck is absolutely right concerning the law. And the condemnation that goes with it. APART from the law sin was dead.

"But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead" Romans 7:8

Those laws everyone is so worried about keeping were given to a specific group for a specific reason and they pointed out every flaw and mistake those people made. While they were under grace they didn't even know they were sinning. They were sure aware of it after.
They had unmerited favor from their Father, right up to the point they told Him He wasn't necessary. That they could handle sin.
While the laws were being prepared, that group was actually down below breaking the very first one. By the time the laws were complete and handed down 3,000 of them were so sin laden and didn't know it until after the rules were implemented, that they just dropped dead.

We are forgiven our sins because they have already been dealt with on the cross, and because of that, mercy can be applied to the sinner instead of punishment.

There was a prostitute that took her pay, an alabaster box with fine oil, and poured the oil on Jesus.
He didn't criticize or judge:
her outfit,
her job,
her motives,
or listen to a litany of her infractions.

He said this to her:

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7:50

Saved in that sentence is perfect tense, not present. It does not say you are forgiven, it says you are saved. Period. It is not a daily occurrence. It is not present tense.
How was it obtained? Faith.

And then it says something that a worker for salvation can never achieve.
In Greek, "go in peace" reads, "Go into peace". It is referring to the sweet Jesus peace that allows you to wake up singing every morning instead of worrying if you sinned already, yet again, today........

When you abide in that perfect peace you produce right deeds because you are in the right mental condition. It is a pleasure to do good, not a chore to be graded on later.

When you work to be saved on your own, you reduce the blood of Christ to less than goat or cow blood.
At least animal blood covered the "lawless" for a year! Those who try to keep the law need constant sacrifices because Koshergrl is right, we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

With Christ only one sacrifice was necessary, His. And His commandments are two, Love God, Love each other.

Goodness from us for Christ's sake.
Salvation from Him for our sake.