Can a Catholic not like his communist Pope?

[Votto]

"But Francis distanced himself from communism, saying that previous pronouncements on economic policy and welfare derived from Church doctrine rather than any leftist ideology.

“Land, roof, and work … It’s odd, but for some, if I talk about these [subjects], it turns out the pope is a communist,” Francis quipped.

Yeah that is bizarre. But challenge them to articulate it, and they come up empty.

It's a mass gullibility issue. Used to be the masses could be bamboozled by a Church. Now they worship at the feet of the Internets and whatever hair-on-fire preacher blogger tickles their paranoia-bone. In both cases the missing element is a healthy skepticism. How far we've (failed to) come.

A healthy skepticism would include an unbiased analysis of historical Catholics who have had a healthy skepticism. Name a branch of science and you can find a Catholic among the pioneers. JFK had a healthy skepticism. Governor Brown (CA) is hardly a witch burner. 6 of our Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, representing a range of perspectives from conservative to moderate to liberal.

Catholicism is only fundamentalist on a few issues of faith which have no bearing on a healthy skepticism in regards to science, secular government or law.

Catholicism is really bizzare. They believe the Pope to be infallible but most ignore mandates against abortion and birth control.

Strange group of folks.

 

[Pogo]

"But Francis distanced himself from communism, saying that previous pronouncements on economic policy and welfare derived from Church doctrine rather than any leftist ideology.

“Land, roof, and work … It’s odd, but for some, if I talk about these [subjects], it turns out the pope is a communist,” Francis quipped.

Yeah that is bizarre. But challenge them to articulate it, and they come up empty.

It's a mass gullibility issue. Used to be the masses could be bamboozled by a Church. Now they worship at the feet of the Internets and whatever hair-on-fire preacher blogger tickles their paranoia-bone. In both cases the missing element is a healthy skepticism. How far we've (failed to) come.

A healthy skepticism would include an unbiased analysis of historical Catholics who have had a healthy skepticism. Name a branch of science and you can find a Catholic among the pioneers. JFK had a healthy skepticism. Governor Brown (CA) is hardly a witch burner. 6 of our Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, representing a range of perspectives from conservative to moderate to liberal.

Catholicism is only fundamentalist on a few issues of faith which have no bearing on a healthy skepticism in regards to science, secular government or law.

Catholicism is really bizzare. They believe the Pope to be infallible but most ignore mandates against abortion and birth control.

Strange group of folks.

That's not a contradiction yanno.

 

[Pogo]

"But Francis distanced himself from communism, saying that previous pronouncements on economic policy and welfare derived from Church doctrine rather than any leftist ideology.

“Land, roof, and work … It’s odd, but for some, if I talk about these [subjects], it turns out the pope is a communist,” Francis quipped.

Yeah that is bizarre. But challenge them to articulate it, and they come up empty.

It's a mass gullibility issue. Used to be the masses could be bamboozled by a Church. Now they worship at the feet of the Internets and whatever hair-on-fire preacher blogger tickles their paranoia-bone. In both cases the missing element is a healthy skepticism. How far we've (failed to) come.

A healthy skepticism would include an unbiased analysis of historical Catholics who have had a healthy skepticism. Name a branch of science and you can find a Catholic among the pioneers. JFK had a healthy skepticism. Governor Brown (CA) is hardly a witch burner. 6 of our Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, representing a range of perspectives from conservative to moderate to liberal.

Catholicism is only fundamentalist on a few issues of faith which have no bearing on a healthy skepticism in regards to science, secular government or law.

As Catholic George Carlin always noted, they taught us to think, and that's why so many of us leave the faith.

 

[JQPublic1]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

 

[Blackrook]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Please don't tell other people they are going to hell unless they repent. That's the kind of thing that makes Christians look like fruitcakes. Just stop and think about what you look like to other people.

 

[Care4all]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Please don't tell other people they are going to hell unless they repent. That's the kind of thing that makes Christians look like fruitcakes. Just stop and think about what you look like to other people.

What makes Christians look like fruitcakes to other people, is when people claim that a murder who had accepted Christ as Savior, could murder again and again and again and again and again, and be accepted in to Heaven on Judgement Day, just because he supposedly accepted Christ as Savior a decade ago...

Faith, (In Christ Jesus) without works, is dead... so there is no true Faith in Jesus Christ present, if it does not show in your daily actions...and you don't feel or sense some sort of remorse, when you falter...which you will do, you will fall short of the glory of God....

I do believe once saved, always saved...but only God knows for certain what is in the individual's heart and whether that person is even one of the people that were truly 'once saved' or not...

In other words, I don't believe in a person simply 'saying' that they have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, means they are Saved, once and forever, and then they can go on and murder over and over and over again, without showing or feeling an ounce of remorse or repentance, and still be considered as a person that was once saved, always saved....(You will know them by their fruit)

because...well....from my own personal experience...once you truly do accept Christ as Savior and Lord, your life, changes forever...it's impossible to sin, without feeling regret or remorse or penitent or just simply struggling with this weakness of your own that leads to sin... sin brings burning coals on your head... it happens, you falter, you fail at being perfect or in your works, so to say, but your remorse is deep, and then you pick yourself up and try try again, to be better, to be stronger, to be less tempted or less nasty or less boastful or less greedy or whatever....

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

"But Francis distanced himself from communism, saying that previous pronouncements on economic policy and welfare derived from Church doctrine rather than any leftist ideology.

“Land, roof, and work … It’s odd, but for some, if I talk about these [subjects], it turns out the pope is a communist,” Francis quipped.

Yeah that is bizarre. But challenge them to articulate it, and they come up empty.

It's a mass gullibility issue. Used to be the masses could be bamboozled by a Church. Now they worship at the feet of the Internets and whatever hair-on-fire preacher blogger tickles their paranoia-bone. In both cases the missing element is a healthy skepticism. How far we've (failed to) come.

A healthy skepticism would include an unbiased analysis of historical Catholics who have had a healthy skepticism. Name a branch of science and you can find a Catholic among the pioneers. JFK had a healthy skepticism. Governor Brown (CA) is hardly a witch burner. 6 of our Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, representing a range of perspectives from conservative to moderate to liberal.

Catholicism is only fundamentalist on a few issues of faith which have no bearing on a healthy skepticism in regards to science, secular government or law.

Catholicism is really bizzare. They believe the Pope to be infallible but most ignore mandates against abortion and birth control.

Strange group of folks.

Who ignores those mandates? Have you taken a survey?

Many Protestants shack up and fornicate or commit adultery too.

Here's the problem with your simplistic idiocy. You fail to distinguish true, devout faith from the many unchurched who have become lukewarm and sullied by the sinful world around them. Catholics who go to Holy Mass every week, show up faithfully to confession, take very seriously the teachings of the Church. My wife and I have never used contraception. We trust in "God planning" instead of "family planning" like Protestants do. And we're not extraordinary Catholics, we're very much like every devout Catholic.

And "devout" is the key word here. I don't care what supposed "catholics" do who aren't showing up to Mass, praying the Rosary, confessing their sins and living the sacramental life. Serious Catholics obey the Church. Period.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Please don't tell other people they are going to hell unless they repent. That's the kind of thing that makes Christians look like fruitcakes. Just stop and think about what you look like to other people.

Wrong and wrong.

The problem isn't Christians warning people about hellfire, the problem is that we aren't doing it enough. It used to be that both Catholics and Protestants were constantly warning the reprobate about hell and there was a healthy fear of damnation throughout society. Now we've "softened the message" and people no longer take the reality of eternal damnation seriously. It's an act of apathy, even hate, to fail to warn people that their life's course leads to condemnation and destruction.

It's very simple. When the Church preached hell, we had a very god fearing society. When we stopped, people abandoned the Christian faith. You're so terrified of "scaring off" people from Christianity that you haven't considered that 100 years ago on Sunday mornings the streets were silent and the churches were full of singing people. Apparently preaching hellfire doesn't repel people, it draws them in.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Stop attacking capitalism if it's given you everything you have. Communism never made anyone prosperous, it only made everyone equally impoverished.

Don't forget that Jesus was buried in a tomb bought by a rich man.

Rich and poor alike can be righteous, and they can also be evil. Covetousness is a sin and is at the heart of the very communism you stand by.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

 

[Treeshepherd]

"But Francis distanced himself from communism, saying that previous pronouncements on economic policy and welfare derived from Church doctrine rather than any leftist ideology.

“Land, roof, and work … It’s odd, but for some, if I talk about these [subjects], it turns out the pope is a communist,” Francis quipped.

Yeah that is bizarre. But challenge them to articulate it, and they come up empty.

It's a mass gullibility issue. Used to be the masses could be bamboozled by a Church. Now they worship at the feet of the Internets and whatever hair-on-fire preacher blogger tickles their paranoia-bone. In both cases the missing element is a healthy skepticism. How far we've (failed to) come.

A healthy skepticism would include an unbiased analysis of historical Catholics who have had a healthy skepticism. Name a branch of science and you can find a Catholic among the pioneers. JFK had a healthy skepticism. Governor Brown (CA) is hardly a witch burner. 6 of our Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, representing a range of perspectives from conservative to moderate to liberal.

Catholicism is only fundamentalist on a few issues of faith which have no bearing on a healthy skepticism in regards to science, secular government or law.

As Catholic George Carlin always noted, they taught us to think, and that's why so many of us leave the faith.

And they also taught him to act on stage at Camp Notre Dame on Spoffard Lake. After Carlin's death, upon request, his ashes were spread there.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

Excellent points.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I would also add that individual diocese may neglect the poor more than others.

The Los Angeles diocese, formerly headed by a very evil man, Cardinal Mahony, had millions of dollars in assets such as buildings and real estate. And they gave millions too..not to the poor, but to political causes.....that is, Democrats. You'll remember the Los Angeles Diocese because that was at the heart of the sex abuse scandals Cardinal Mahony, servant of Satan, was a chief instrument in the relocation of offending priests and perpetuating sexual child abuse for decades starting in 1980. Demonic sexual perversion and the neglect of the poor and hungry go hand in hand, a lesson learned by the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Buildings and assets that the corrupt diocese should never have possessed were sold off to pay for sex abuse settlements.

 

[JQPublic1]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Please don't tell other people they are going to hell unless they repent. That's the kind of thing that makes Christians look like fruitcakes. Just stop and think about what you look like to other people.

Why would I be concerned about what heathens, idolators and unbelievers think of me other than I am an upright man trying to do God's will? The risk of having faith and believing in God and Jesus is that people who do not share those beliefs are going to think you are crazy anyway. But one thing is certain...we are all going to find out, sooner or later, when the bodies we now occupy sleep for the final time! Care to gamble?

 

[Treeshepherd]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

Excellent points.

"Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he?"- Grendelyn

When I read the above sentence, it reminds me of that movie Doctor Zhivago when the communists started tearing the paintings off the walls of the wealthy estates. Like Newton said, every action has an opposite and equal reaction. The wealthy in Russia were living in opulence, but the communists really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Pretty soon, everyone was poor.

Because art was a luxury item, great pieces of music, or instruments (Stradivarius), paintings, poetry, literature, etc, were scoffed at by the Proletariat and eventually despised.

So too were the aspirations of the world's religions. How easy it is for man to utterly reject the sacred and place the profane in its stead, thinking that he has cleansed his mind when in fact he has simply impoverished it.

 

[JQPublic1]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Stop attacking capitalism if it's given you everything you have. Communism never made anyone prosperous, it only made everyone equally impoverished.

Don't forget that Jesus was buried in a tomb bought by a rich man.

Rich and poor alike can be righteous, and they can also be evil. Covetousness is a sin and is at the heart of the very communism you stand by.

Capitalism hasn't given me everything I have. God owns the earth and everything on or in it! It is He that I reserve my thanks for what I have. BTW, my greatest treasure is the love of God that permeates my very being! Capitalism, can place no value on that priceless asset! And guess what? I didn't have to be White to attain that gift! In fact, judging by the materialistic justifications submitted here, Whiteness may be more of an obstacle to knowing God than I thought!

 

[JQPublic1]

Amazing how you communists have made piety out of stealing other people's property and claiming Jesus taught you to do so. We real Christians understand that Jesus is the same God that gave the commandments on Mt. Sinai. Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal. You are tares growing among wheat, pretending to be Christians while promoting the doctrine of demons. Communists shall take part in the eternal Lake of Fire unless you repent. Jesus knows who belongs to him and will separate the tares from the wheat and will bind the tares into bundles and cast them into everlasting fire.

I urge you to repent of your wickedness and beg for the mercy of God.

I'll take the main point of the story as it was appears in the bible. As,expected, you materialistic capitalists will invent interpretations of that passage to justify keeping your wealth. Money wasn't the focal point of wealth in those days, it was material possessions as well. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he has, give to the poor and follow Him? It's easy to overlook those phrases you don't like, isn't it?



To further ensnare your soul, you use your Free Will to bear false witness against me by calling me a communist. You don't stop there. Continuing, you accuse your imaginary communists of being thieves by stealing other peoples property while using Jesus to justify it! Those lies will accompany you to your damnation unless YOU repent. I am a Christian and I am an able bodied man who has worked for everything I own. I may not be perfect in Christ's eyes because I have not sold all that I own; though I have given to some of the poor. I also believe that Jesus allowed men to shed His blood and died for our sins because few of us could ever be perfect. He paid the price so that even imperfect rich guys who hold on to their wealth can be saved if they truly believe and took no part in wholesale murder and genocide like so many White Christians have done.

Stop attacking capitalism if it's given you everything you have. Communism never made anyone prosperous, it only made everyone equally impoverished.

Don't forget that Jesus was buried in a tomb bought by a rich man.

Rich and poor alike can be righteous, and they can also be evil. Covetousness is a sin and is at the heart of the very communism you stand by.

Capitalism hasn't given me everything I have. God owns the earth and everything on or in it! It is He that I reserve my thanks for what I have. BTW, my greatest treasure is the love of God that permeates my very being! Capitalism, can place no value on that priceless asset! And guess what? I didn't have to be White to attain that gift! In fact, judging by the materialistic justifications submitted here, Whiteness may be more of an obstacle to knowing God than I thought!

 

[JQPublic1]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

Excellent points.

"Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he?"- Grendelyn

When I read the above sentence, it reminds me of that movie Doctor Zhivago when the communists started tearing the paintings off the walls of the wealthy estates. Like Newton said, every action has an opposite and equal reaction. The wealthy in Russia were living in opulence, but the communists really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Pretty soon, everyone was poor.

Because art was a luxury item, great pieces of music, or instruments (Stradivarius), paintings, poetry, literature, etc, were scoffed at by the Proletariat and eventually despised.

So too were the aspirations of the world's religions. How easy it is for man to utterly reject the sacred and place the profane in its stead, thinking that he has cleansed his mind when in fact he has simply impoverished it.

Here, even now, you continue to place value on statues, paintings and other material things. Are these not symbols of the graven images that were rejected by the Ten Commandments? Aren't these relics really no more than an extension of 'White" imagery that perpetuates feelings of superiority in every White person who erroneously links them to God and Jesus? Is not inferiority subliminally thrusted into the minds of those who do not look like those "made in Europe" images?

 

[Treeshepherd]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

Excellent points.

"Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he?"- Grendelyn

When I read the above sentence, it reminds me of that movie Doctor Zhivago when the communists started tearing the paintings off the walls of the wealthy estates. Like Newton said, every action has an opposite and equal reaction. The wealthy in Russia were living in opulence, but the communists really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Pretty soon, everyone was poor.

Because art was a luxury item, great pieces of music, or instruments (Stradivarius), paintings, poetry, literature, etc, were scoffed at by the Proletariat and eventually despised.

So too were the aspirations of the world's religions. How easy it is for man to utterly reject the sacred and place the profane in its stead, thinking that he has cleansed his mind when in fact he has simply impoverished it.

Here, even now, you continue to place value on statues, paintings and other material things. Are these not symbols of the graven images that were rejected by the Ten Commandments? Aren't these relics really no more than an extension of 'White" imagery that perpetuates feelings of superiority in every White person who erroneously links them to God and Jesus? Is not inferiority subliminally thrust into the minds of those who do not look like those "made in Europe" images?

I happen to be a pagan, and I see a lot of paganism embedded in Catholicism. I see a natural alliance between Catholicism and paganism. It isn't true that Catholics and pagans worship graven images. An icon is merely a lens though which the eye looks. It isn't the icon itself that is worshiped. It's merely a vehicle of inspiration.

As a polytheist, I sometimes visit the shrines of the Christian god. I like to visit Catholic churches when I travel. One thing that is very evident in any Catholic congregation here in California is the diversity of skin color. Your typical Mass will include many whites, Hispanics, Filipinos, Blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans, etc.. In my experience, I can't really think of a more diverse institution than the Catholic Church in either government or the private sector.

So, yeah, paintings of the Nordic Jesus seem a little silly. But, there's also the Black Madonna, and the Latina Virgin Maria, and so many other local variations on the basic themes.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he? ~ Susan
PS One would have to be an idiot not to see the hypocrisy comprised in organized religion . . . are you really a shepherd, Tree Shepherd, or are you, as I suspect, just one of many sheep which spew there righteous b.s. on this board?

Catholics, throughout the world, work tirelessly on behalf of the poor through missionaries and Catholic charities. If this wasn't in play, and there was no other way to help the poor, you might have a point.

Once a piece of art is sold, it can no longer contribute to the poor--and to the poor it would be only a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, instead of ending up in a private collection few see, art can inspire us to remember and continue our work as Christians on behalf of the poor.

When people sell their houses, and all that they have, as the best method to give to the poor (and in the process impoverishing themselves) perhaps then they can advise the Vatican City to impoverish itself--yet in someway continue to help the poor when there is nothing left to give.

I'm amazed at how those who demand the Catholic Church sell off artwork for the poor don't realize they sound just like Judas the Betrayer who with false piety said that the costly ointment that a woman bathed the feet of Jesus with should be sold and the money given to the poor. The truth is, the Catholic is the largest advocate for the poor, teaching social justice and giving more to charity to help the poor and hungry than any other charity in the world. There's no room for accusation that we could be doing more, or that the Church is somehow holding out because it has a few pieces of art in the Vatican.

The spirit of Judas the Betrayer is alive and well today and shamefully, it's some Protestants who embody it.

Excellent points.

"Oh, please . . . if Pope Frank really cared about the poor as you religious nutcases profess Christ cared about them, he'd, at the very least, sell off one of the many valuable paintings, which is now owned by the RCC and hung in one of their museums, to feed a few of the starving masses, now wouldn't he?"- Grendelyn

When I read the above sentence, it reminds me of that movie Doctor Zhivago when the communists started tearing the paintings off the walls of the wealthy estates. Like Newton said, every action has an opposite and equal reaction. The wealthy in Russia were living in opulence, but the communists really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Pretty soon, everyone was poor.

Because art was a luxury item, great pieces of music, or instruments (Stradivarius), paintings, poetry, literature, etc, were scoffed at by the Proletariat and eventually despised.

So too were the aspirations of the world's religions. How easy it is for man to utterly reject the sacred and place the profane in its stead, thinking that he has cleansed his mind when in fact he has simply impoverished it.

Here, even now, you continue to place value on statues, paintings and other material things. Are these not symbols of the graven images that were rejected by the Ten Commandments? Aren't these relics really no more than an extension of 'White" imagery that perpetuates feelings of superiority in every White person who erroneously links them to God and Jesus? Is not inferiority subliminally thrusted into the minds of those who do not look like those "made in Europe" images?

No they aren't unless you can explain why God commanded statues to be made to be used in worship and a bronze serpent to be made to heal the Israelites of their snakebite.

You people and Jehovah Witnesses (what an alliance!) both make the same mistake. The commandment, "thou shalt not make unto thyself" specifically forbids the creation of idols, gods created by human hands to be worshiped. That's what "unto thyself" means. The cheribum, bulls, snakes, and other images forged from precious metal were aids in sacramental worship. If anything Catholic and Orthodox worship is far more Biblical, taking to heart what it says in Hebrews that the Aaronic liturgy is a "copy of the heavenly tabernacle"

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Hebrews 8:5, 9:2-5

As it says here. Sacramental worship didn't change from Old Covenant to New, what changed is that instead of endlessly sacrificing bulls for sins, we have on perfect sacrifice made present in the Eucharist at every holy mass. Sacramental worship is a copy of heaven, where there exists a heavenly tabernacle, the same one that Moses was shown on the mountain. The same goes for Catholic statues. They aren't idols and they aren't gods. They represent the thin veil, an antechamber to a heavenly throne room where we can boldly approach to receive mercy and grace. (Hebrews 4:16)