Call to prayer is unsettling in Hamtramck

[NewGuy]

http://www.detnews.com/2004/religion/0405/23/b03-160686.htm

THIS IS IN THE U.S. FOLKS!!!

Despite the outcry, mosque to proceed with religious practice

By Ron French / The Detroit News

HAMTRAMCK — A controversial noise ordinance allowing a mosque to broadcast daily Islamic calls to prayer over loud speakers is set to go into effect Wednesday.

But it probably won’t go into effect because of a petition protesting the ordinance.

But it probably won’t matter because the mosque plans to broadcast the calls to prayer anyway.

Confused? The Hamtramck City Council will try to sort through the mess Tuesday in the latest round of what is becoming a lesson in democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Leaders of the Al-Islah Islamic Center asked the council for permission to broadcast calls to prayer — a centuries-old tradition in Islam. A prayer is sung five times a day to invite Muslims to pray. They’re often broadcast by loud speaker in predominantly Muslim countries, but are seldom broadcast in the United States.

The council wrote and approved an amendment to the city’s noise ordinance, sparking waves of outrage from Christian groups across the country that claimed Hamtramck was giving special rights to Muslims.

Last week, citizens turned in petitions with an estimated 630 signatures asking that the noise ordinance amendment be suspended. If 552 of the signatures are certified by the city clerk’s office, then the council Tuesday will be required to reconsider the amendment.

The council could vote down the amendment — which seems unlikely — because the amendment has passed unanimously several times.

If the council votes to approve the amendment, it still doesn’t go into effect. Instead, the amendment would be put on hold until it can be put on a ballot for city voters to consider.

All the political gyrations may not matter.

Masud Kahn, the associate imam of the mosque, said the mosque will begin the calls to prayer Friday, as planned, no matter what happens with the petition and the council.

Kahn and council President Karen Majewski say the mosque didn’t need the city’s permission to broadcast the calls to prayer in the first place.

Because the mosque is a religious institution and because it is broadcasting from its own property, the city has no control over the calls to prayer beyond regulations contained in the noise ordinance.

The calls to prayer last about two minutes. While mosque leaders are still discussing their options, Kahn said the mosque tentatively plans to begin the broadcasts at about 1:30 p.m. Friday.

 

[freeandfun1]

One Muslim on this site said that it is okay to kill those that prevent them from practicing Islam.... I wonder if they would consider a ban on blaring this crap as "preventing them from practicing Islam."

 

[dilloduck]

Oh come on----you don't care about the noise--you don't want them to practice their religion. Why is it that so many Christians want to take away the rights of others? It really gives Christainity bad image don't you think?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Oh come on----you don't care about the noise--you don't want them to practice their religion. Why is it that so many Christians want to take away the rights of others? It really gives Christainity bad image don't you think?

That is a tricky point.

If they practice the religion minus the terrorism, that is one thing.

If they also practice it by not broadcasting across loudspeakers for 2 minutes solid 5 times a day in a land where noise polution has laws, that is another thing.

Both are serious issues.

Add the point about Christ claiming no one comes to the Father but through Him, and you then have the correct perspective we all ought to have about the religion.

You are correct in one aspect. We need to allow people to practice their religions. -But not at the point they encroach upon others.

 

[dilloduck]

Christians have thier annoying habits of thier own too. Who decides the degree? I would like it to be done on a very local level but there is always some lawyer wanting an issue to make some bucks on. Jesus said there would be temptation . Wouldnt a Christian see this as another way to prove his faith?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Christians have thier annoying habits of thier own too. Who decides the degree?

THAT is a difficult question.

I would like it to be done on a very local level but there is always some laywer wanting something an issue to make some bucks on. Jesus said there would be temptation . Wouldnt a Christian see this as another way to prove his faith?

Good luck getting a corrupt system to allow it into the courtroom.

 

[insein]

Blasting the call to prayer is illegal in my mind. It imposes a religion upon those that do not wish to practice it. If Catholics decided to blast the our father or the nicene creed 5 times a day over loud speakers for all to hear, that too would be imposing their religion onto those who do not wish to practice it.

This is clear cut violation of freedom of religion.

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

You can not pass a law favoring one religion over another. If this goes through, then Catholics, Christians, Jews and any other religion can argue to have their "Call to prayer" blasted through loud speakers 5 times a day to a populace that does not practice all those religions. I for one do not want to hear that.

 

[dilloduck]

Pornograghy has already been to the Supreme Court-----Lawyers can get "religious noise" the too I bet.

 

[NewGuy]

Insein, well said. I second the motion.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Pornograghy has already been to the Supreme Court-----Lawyers can get "religious noise" the too I bet.

Most likely.

 

[dilloduck]

A law CAN be and HAS been passed favoring one religion over all religions. Atheism.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
A law CAN be and HAS been passed favoring one religion over all religions. Atheism.

I think Constitutionally what can be done, and what has been done by ignoring the Constitution are two different things.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by dilloduck
A law CAN be and HAS been passed favoring one religion over all religions. Atheism.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It is an absence of religion.

a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm)
n.

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.

It is not the belief in something. It is the DISbelief of something. therefore it is NOT a religion in my mind.

 

[dilloduck]

Define it whatever way you want too----rightly or wrongly --the law exists and has been upheld by the Supreme Court . This law does put restriction on the practice of religion.

 

[freeandfun1]

One Muslim on this site said that it is okay to kill those that prevent them from practicing Islam.... I wonder if they would consider a ban on blaring this crap as "preventing them from practicing Islam."

 

[Zhukov]

I live in Christian America. There are churchs all over the place. Alot of them have bells. That doesn't bother me, and neither would this.

You're are all equally strange to me, but 'live and let live' I say.

How many moslems live in that city anyways, and is the city so large, and the moslem population so dispersed that loud speakers are even necessary? It's not like they even had loud speakers several centuries ago. Why can't they do what they did then?

 

[dilloduck]

A guess everyone wants the biggest piece of the pie.