California politicians say you can't have guns, cops say you are on your own...nice...

[Brain357]

Red States Have Higher Crime Rates Than Blue States | Smart Politics

Because Red states have blue cities which drive up the crime rate....Tennessee, the 6 biggest cities are all run by democrats and Memphis and Nashville are two of the most violent in the country...red state, blue cities......like a cancer on the state....

Do I need to look up those big cities in florida again where the repub run one has more crime than the similar sized dem run city?

Yeah……find the one…compared to all the other poorly run democrat cities.

Well to be fair you have to compare a dem city to a repub city. When this is done your claims are proven false.

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

 

[2aguy]

Because Red states have blue cities which drive up the crime rate....Tennessee, the 6 biggest cities are all run by democrats and Memphis and Nashville are two of the most violent in the country...red state, blue cities......like a cancer on the state....

Do I need to look up those big cities in florida again where the repub run one has more crime than the similar sized dem run city?

Yeah……find the one…compared to all the other poorly run democrat cities.

Well to be fair you have to compare a dem city to a repub city. When this is done your claims are proven false.

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

 

[Brain357]

Do I need to look up those big cities in florida again where the repub run one has more crime than the similar sized dem run city?

Yeah……find the one…compared to all the other poorly run democrat cities.

Well to be fair you have to compare a dem city to a repub city. When this is done your claims are proven false.

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah……find the one…compared to all the other poorly run democrat cities.

Well to be fair you have to compare a dem city to a repub city. When this is done your claims are proven false.

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

 

[Brain357]

Well to be fair you have to compare a dem city to a repub city. When this is done your claims are proven false.

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

 

[2aguy]

You find one…..good job…..here's a cookie.

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

 

[Brain357]

Well you don't seem to understand that when almost all big cities are run by Dems the ones with the most crime are also dem run by default. What we know is that crime is at historical lows and we have the fullest jails in the world. Doesn't sound so soft in crime to me.

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

 

[2aguy]

And more Americans than ever before own and carry guns for self defense. The combination of actually locking up criminals and allowing normal people to defend themselves is what reduces the crime rate. Gun control…not so much…attacking police and getting them to stay in their cars….not so much….

And New York…..when it was run by a Republican…the real Republican, Guilliani….the crime rate was brought down, and now that a real liberal is in charge and not following what Guilliani did, the crime rate is going up.

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

 

[Brain357]

Crime was trending down long before the carry fad.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

 

[2aguy]

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

 

[2aguy]

Nope….crime started the downward trend as states were adopting concealed and open carry laws…it started in the early 90s. And the fact that the crime rate declined as more people carried guns for self defense destroys the entire notion that law abiding citizens, carrying guns for self defense increase the crime rate. Normal, law abiding people, carrying guns are not the crime problem. The criminal sub culture in the United States is the problem, and they do not obey gun control laws.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And an even better statistic....Virginia just passed, last year, concealed carry in bars....bar crime went down 5.2%.....

Concealed carry and normal people lowers the violent rate......as long as there are police doing their job....and especially when the police are not their, or are holding back because of democrats attacking them...concealed carry becomes even more important..

 

[Brain357]

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

There has been no significant number of people carrying til the last 5 years. Even now it is a tiny number. To claim it has caused crime to go down is obviously false. There are almost no arrests due to carry. It has however not increased crime.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Wrong…..people have been growing in numbers since the 90s….tracking with the decrease in gun murder in the country…… There don't need to be arrests, just crimes stopped and morons shown that attacking people is the wrong crime to commit…..and it is 100% effective for the people who carry in stopping their personal attack...

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

Nope…..studies show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…I have posted links to those studies repeatedly, pretending that they don't exist doesn't change that fact, that truth or that reality.

 

[Brain357]

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Yes there needs to be arrests. Otherwise they move on to next victim, crime rate unaffected. Even now there are few who carry. Your claim is obviously false. And without a concealed carry law states like WI had crime going down. Then they got comcealed carry and violent crime is up.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

Nope…..studies show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…I have posted links to those studies repeatedly, pretending that they don't exist doesn't change that fact, that truth or that reality.

And studies show it doesn't and studies show it increases crime. What we know is wi lowered crime without carry just like states with carry lowered crime. Carry does not effect crime rates.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

Nope…..studies show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…I have posted links to those studies repeatedly, pretending that they don't exist doesn't change that fact, that truth or that reality.

And studies show it doesn't and studies show it increases crime. What we know is wi lowered crime without carry just like states with carry lowered crime. Carry does not effect crime rates.

No, actually, you lie by omission…one study said it increased crime, most say it reduced crime, another group of studies said it had no effect…

here are the actual studies….

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”



**********



Responding to the Washington Post's "More guns, less crime? Not exactly" - Crime Prevention Research Center



On July 31st, four academics wrote a letter to the Washington Post to correct their claims.

Dear Letters Editor:
Extensive research demonstrates that more guns mean less crime. But Emily Badger’s article cherry picks just two discussions (“More guns, less crime? Not exactly,” 7/29). If she had looked at the literature, she would have discovered that about two-thirds of peer-reviewed research by economists and criminologists find that right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime. And no one finds higher murder, rape or robbery from concealed handgun laws.

One study she cites by John Donohue and his two research assistants claim that permitted concealed handguns increase aggravated assaults. But besides the fact that he has already acknowledged his paper accusing John Lott of circulating bad data made mistakes in estimating the results, there are three problems with his published empirical work.

First, significant data errors biased their results towards what they wanted to find. Among them, data for one county was accidentally repeated 73 times and some state laws changes were misidentified by up to a decade.

Second, the result was simply an artifact of fitting a straight line to data that followed a curved pattern.

Third, if Donohue is going to claim that permit holders are committing aggravated assaults, he needs to identify some cases. But a review of state permit revocation data shows permit holders lose their permits for any type of firearms related violation at hundredths or thousandths of one percentage point and virtually none involve violent crime.

Finally, in Badger’s reference to the 2005 Nation Research Council report, she fails to note that the panel couldn’t agree on any finding whatsoever, not just concealed carry. However, as James Q. Wilson pointed out, the Nation Research Council results consistently showed that right-to-carry laws reduced murder rates.
Sincerely,
Professor Lloyd Cohen
School of Law
George Mason University
3301 Fairfax Dr. Arlington, VA 22201
703-993-8048
[email protected]

John R. Lott, Jr.
President
Crime Prevention Research Center
5401 Duxford Pl
Burke, VA 22015
http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org
(484) 802-5373
[email protected]

Professor Carl Moody
Department of Economics
College of William & Mary
Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
757-221-2373
[email protected]

Professor David Mustard
Department of Economics
University of Georgia
310 Herty Drive
Athens, GA 30602
706-542-3624
[email protected]

 

[2aguy]

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Wrong….crime is up because of a democrat mayor in Milwaukee…..undermining the police…..I posted the article, you saw it, now you pretend it doesn't exist….

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

Nope…..studies show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…I have posted links to those studies repeatedly, pretending that they don't exist doesn't change that fact, that truth or that reality.

And studies show it doesn't and studies show it increases crime. What we know is wi lowered crime without carry just like states with carry lowered crime. Carry does not effect crime rates.

Here is the breakdown….

16 papers…. concealed carry reduced crime

10 papers… had no effect on crime

1 paper… increased crime

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.

 

[TNHarley]

When seconds count, police are only seconds away..
And another fallacy that is typically associated with this subject :
If cops and guns are bad, who is supposed to save you?

 

[Brain357]

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

And yet now with bad police work it is going up…just like it is going up in all the cities that have attacked their own police forces….while it went down when more Americans started carrying guns.

Why was it going down like the rest of the country without concealed carry? Your claim has so many holes.

No…..it is a big country. Crime in Wisconsin is going up because of their police policies, just like in Chicago and the other major cities. The rest of Wisconsin also has concealed carry, and they are not experiencing an uptick in crime…..allowing normal people to carry guns does not increase gun crime since normal people don't commit the crime. The criminals are already using guns….with or without gun control…the normal people will not break the law. Chicago and other democrats controlled cities, baltimore, D.C., Detroit……strict gun control and the crime rate through the roof…

Detroit…..pushing concealed carry and the crime rate is now finally going down…….Minnesota….just passed the 5% mark on concealed carry permits…crime rate has gone down…dittos Florida…...

I didn't say it effects crime rates. But like i said crime was going down in wi when they didn't have carry. You can't claim carry has brought down crime. Crime was going down long before the carry fad.

Nope…..studies show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…I have posted links to those studies repeatedly, pretending that they don't exist doesn't change that fact, that truth or that reality.

And studies show it doesn't and studies show it increases crime. What we know is wi lowered crime without carry just like states with carry lowered crime. Carry does not effect crime rates.

Here is the breakdown….

16 papers…. concealed carry reduced crime

10 papers… had no effect on crime

1 paper… increased crime

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.

Yes most that say it lowers crime are associated with lott and should be treated as one study.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate

 

[Brain357]

Why Concealed Carry Could Not Have Caused the Two-Decade Dip In Crime Rates

Since the publication of More Guns, Less Crime, at least three major reviews of Lott’s work have debunked his findings. One particularly decisive critique, a 2003 study published in the Stanford Law Review, used a superior statistical models and extended the time frame under analysis. With those adjustments, the paper found that the alleged reductions in crime rates evaporated. Another critical analysis, this time issued from 15 of the 16 panel members of National Research Council (NRC), concluded that “with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.” Then, in 2011, a team of researchers analyzed the NRC panel’s findings and conclude that RTC laws, in fact, increase crime. And these three studies represent only the tip of the iceberg — therearemanymorecatalogingthenumerouswaysinwhichLotthaserred.

 

[Brain357]

Even if criminals were responsive to indirect deterrence from concealed carry permit holders (which the evidence shows they aren’t), the areas with the most per capita permits are already low crime areas. This is clearly seen in the Illinois concealed carry data we previously analyzed, which showed permits are concentrated in white, rural areas with low levels of crime. If there are few criminals in an area to deter, indirect deterrence cannot be significantly reducing overall crime rates.