California Governor Jerry Brown admits Trump was right about the cause of the fires

[JimBowie1958]

i think that old man 'jerry' is almost dead , he has already made his mark and his money and retirement .

And you are an ignoramus who knows nothing about forest protection.

Steady worsening of the scale and damage caused by these wildfires is proof enough of who knows what about forest protection, you silly ideologue.

 

[danielpalos]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

either that or controlled burns.

 

[eagle1462010]

The State has approved 1 Billion to do just that over the next 5 years.............

Now they will be challenged by the same enviro nuts that have stopped other attempts in the past........

The enviro groups will sue him..........for not maintaining the old positions........which are burning the state to the ground.

It took people dying to force this change.

Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Get a clue.

Thousand year old trees have been surviving burning for some cases for 2500 years............The burn controls the underbrush and the lower canapy.............Which is caused dense fuel loads.............This was predicted by the GAO as early as 2000 when Bill Clinton put the Roadless law in effect...............They quoted what would happen if the forest are mismanaged and they were spot on. Even Brown is now finally understanding that and has put a billion dollars into doing what I've been saying on multiple threads...............

What did it take to cause that...............An entire city burning to the ground where it is quite possibly hundreds of dead and the worst fire in California History.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You are a failed ideology...........your failure is still burning.........people like you should be dismissed along with your failed policies.

 

[BWK]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

Jerry Brown has been a cancer on California since before I moved there in the 70s. He and his father, whom I met once.
He will never admit that Trump was right.
And currently Jerry Brown is in deep trouble because of all of the deaths his regulations have caused.
Voters are holding him personally responsible.

Trump is not right. Thinning is not going to stop wildfires in the west. It temporarily reduces the fuel load opening the area up for "succession", which is just as bad. Jerry Brown has nothing to do with it. Stop being stup

Jerry Brown deserves any, and all backlash from this issue. If there ever was a politician that deserves to be TARRED, and FEATHERED it is him.

Stop being stupid.
Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with Jerry Brown.

Do you understand the biological influences associated with burning conifers in the west? No!

Thinning a forest lightens the fuel load, for a short period of time, while almost immediately "succession of a forest" takes control, sometimes making things more combustible. Depending on whether you know what that means? Thinning for a very short period of time can help. But right after that, it can actually be worse. You need to know vegetation, weather, climate, Biomes, terrain, and have a key understanding of biological succession to formulate an intelligent conclusion. You have not done any of that. All you can do is create an idiotic post about Jerry Brown.

And funny faces are for cowards like you.

The State has approved 1 Billion to do just that over the next 5 years.............

Now they will be challenged by the same enviro nuts that have stopped other attempts in the past........

The enviro groups will sue him..........for not maintaining the old positions........which are burning the state to the ground.

It took people dying to force this change.

Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Get a clue.

Thousand year old trees have been surviving burning for some cases for 2500 years............The burn controls the underbrush and the lower canapy.............Which is caused dense fuel loads.............This was predicted by the GAO as early as 2000 when Bill Clinton put the Roadless law in effect...............They quoted what would happen if the forest are mismanaged and they were spot on. Even Brown is now finally understanding that and has put a billion dollars into doing what I've been saying on multiple threads...............

What did it take to cause that...............An entire city burning to the ground where it is quite possibly hundreds of dead and the worst fire in California History.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You are a failed ideology...........your failure is still burning.........people like you should be dismissed along with your failed policies.

At some point in time you just have to chalk it up to retardation.

You did get one thing right though. " An ounce of prevention". Which is the whole point. It doesn't seem to register in the minds of total imbecile's that an "ounce of prevention" is the only thing possible in most cases, which is not nearly enough for millions of acres. "An ounce of protection" involves massive coordination from hundreds of thousands of people involving doing the same thing at the same time. And who is going to do that? Lol! People must be willing to do the same thing at the same time, and the timing of the prevention must be perfect.'

And what if they do not have the authority for such prevention, if it is on federal and state lands that surround their homes?

And what if ordinary citizens are not educated enough to conduct fire prevention? Most are not.

You have no real understanding of "an ounce of prevention. "

 

[BWK]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

either that or controlled burns.

Thinning is not the cure all. Not even close. And those burns should never be controlled burns. They need to be prescription burns. Big difference!

 

[danielpalos]

we should start with camp grounds.

let's create "manufacturing" jobs by placing utilities underground.

 

[danielpalos]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

either that or controlled burns.

Thinning is not the cure all. Not even close. And those burns should never be controlled burns. They need to be prescription burns. Big difference!

Prescribed fire is a planned fire; it is also sometimes called a “controlled burn” or “prescribed burn,” and is used to meet management objectives. A prescription is a set of conditions that considers the safety of the public and fire staff, weather, and probability of meeting the burn objectives.

 

[BWK]

yeah , i'm no EXPURT like you i suppose but clean up of the woods of dead wood and debris on the ground is simple common sense . Plus then selective logging for profit and thinning to make the forest healthy BWK .

OMG! You think picking up debris on the ground is going to stop a high fire danger crown fire? You folks are unbelievable.

 

[BWK]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

either that or controlled burns.

Thinning is not the cure all. Not even close. And those burns should never be controlled burns. They need to be prescription burns. Big difference!

Prescribed fire is a planned fire; it is also sometimes called a “controlled burn” or “prescribed burn,” and is used to meet management objectives. A prescription is a set of conditions that considers the safety of the public and fire staff, weather, and probability of meeting the burn objectives.

A controlled burn has no initial plan. A prescribed fire does. There are two different types of burning methods. You folks don't have a clue.

As you pointed out explaining a prescribed burn, it has nothing to do with a controlled burn. Calling it a controlled burn just proves how uninformed you are.

Do you know the specific guidelines of a prescribed burn? No! And a controlled burn just takes in the need to control the underbrush without any consideration towards the ecological good of the forest.

 

[BWK]

fire or the 'spotted owl; works pretty good for depopulating an area . See 'HAPPY CAMP' in northern kalifornia . It was once a nice little logging and tourist town were President Teddy Roosevelt used to visit . The tiny town was put out of business by the Spotted OWL and the enviro nazis BWK .

More retards giving their opinion on something they haven't a clue about. Logging, fire, and the Spotted Owl have nothing to do with each other. A Spotted Owl's habitat requirements have zero to do with fire.

 

[BWK]

i think that old man 'jerry' is almost dead , he has already made his mark and his money and retirement .

And you are an ignoramus who knows nothing about forest protection.

My dear, who ever you are, sock or not, really need to study more. With the Santa Ana winds they get yearly, forest protection is not leaving fuel to burn, when it is dry.

Your sentence makes no sense at all. What are you trying to say?

 

[pismoe]

yeah , i'm no EXPURT like you i suppose but clean up of the woods of dead wood and debris on the ground is simple common sense . Plus then selective logging for profit and thinning to make the forest healthy BWK .

OMG! You think picking up debris on the ground is going to stop a high fire danger crown fire? You folks are unbelievable.

-------------------------------------------------- a 'high fire danger CROWN fire' eh [WOW] . Sounds scawy BWK . Anyway , i don't know how a fire starts in the HIGH CROWN of the trees but if it does then the burning branches from the High CROWN Fire falls to the ground and ignites the flammable debris on the ground and thats why the debris and dry fuel on the ground should be raked or cleaned up BWK . [as President Trump advised BWK]

 

[mudwhistle]

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

Jerry Brown has been a cancer on California since before I moved there in the 70s. He and his father, whom I met once.
He will never admit that Trump was right.
And currently Jerry Brown is in deep trouble because of all of the deaths his regulations have caused.
Voters are holding him personally responsible.

Trump is not right. Thinning is not going to stop wildfires in the west. It temporarily reduces the fuel load opening the area up for "succession", which is just as bad. Jerry Brown has nothing to do with it. Stop being stup

Jerry Brown deserves any, and all backlash from this issue. If there ever was a politician that deserves to be TARRED, and FEATHERED it is him.

Stop being stupid.
Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with Jerry Brown.

Do you understand the biological influences associated with burning conifers in the west? No!

Thinning a forest lightens the fuel load, for a short period of time, while almost immediately "succession of a forest" takes control, sometimes making things more combustible. Depending on whether you know what that means? Thinning for a very short period of time can help. But right after that, it can actually be worse. You need to know vegetation, weather, climate, Biomes, terrain, and have a key understanding of biological succession to formulate an intelligent conclusion. You have not done any of that. All you can do is create an idiotic post about Jerry Brown.

And funny faces are for cowards like you.

The State has approved 1 Billion to do just that over the next 5 years.............

Now they will be challenged by the same enviro nuts that have stopped other attempts in the past........

The enviro groups will sue him..........for not maintaining the old positions........which are burning the state to the ground.

It took people dying to force this change.

Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Get a clue.

Thousand year old trees have been surviving burning for some cases for 2500 years............The burn controls the underbrush and the lower canapy.............Which is caused dense fuel loads.............This was predicted by the GAO as early as 2000 when Bill Clinton put the Roadless law in effect...............They quoted what would happen if the forest are mismanaged and they were spot on. Even Brown is now finally understanding that and has put a billion dollars into doing what I've been saying on multiple threads...............

What did it take to cause that...............An entire city burning to the ground where it is quite possibly hundreds of dead and the worst fire in California History.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You are a failed ideology...........your failure is still burning.........people like you should be dismissed along with your failed policies.

At some point in time you just have to chalk it up to retardation.

You did get one thing right though. " An ounce of prevention". Which is the whole point. It doesn't seem to register in the minds of total imbecile's that an "ounce of prevention" is the only thing possible in most cases, which is not nearly enough for millions of acres. "An ounce of protection" involves massive coordination from hundreds of thousands of people involving doing the same thing at the same time. And who is going to do that? Lol! People must be willing to do the same thing at the same time, and the timing of the prevention must be perfect.'

And what if they do not have the authority for such prevention, if it is on federal and state lands that surround their homes?

And what if ordinary citizens are not educated enough to conduct fire prevention? Most are not.

You have no real understanding of "an ounce of prevention. "

An ounce of prevention is an overly simplistic way of stating common-sense.
If you do what you can before a fire to prevent it, the fire often times isn't as bad or never happens in the first place.
Notice how so many homes were involved in the fire. Why? Because California water conservation regulations made it a crime to water your lawn. Tree-hugging lawyers used the courts in CA to keep people from clearing undergrowth around their properties. Undergrowth is the primary cause of wildfires. Never mind the simple fact that CA laws made it too expensive to manage the forests. Permits cost too much.

 

[sartre play]

Any one here posting about Northern California fires live in California? my guess not.

 

[Pilot1]

Any one here posting about Northern California fires live in California? my guess not.

That's like saying we couldn't comment on the Moon landing because we don't live on the Moon.

I used to live in Norcal. What do you want to know?

 

[BWK]

fire or the 'spotted owl; works pretty good for depopulating an area . See 'HAPPY CAMP' in northern kalifornia . It was once a nice little logging and tourist town were President Teddy Roosevelt used to visit . The tiny town was put out of business by the Spotted OWL and the enviro nazis BWK .

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

Jerry Brown has been a cancer on California since before I moved there in the 70s. He and his father, whom I met once.
He will never admit that Trump was right.
And currently Jerry Brown is in deep trouble because of all of the deaths his regulations have caused.
Voters are holding him personally responsible.

Trump is not right. Thinning is not going to stop wildfires in the west. It temporarily reduces the fuel load opening the area up for "succession", which is just as bad. Jerry Brown has nothing to do with it. Stop being stup

Jerry Brown deserves any, and all backlash from this issue. If there ever was a politician that deserves to be TARRED, and FEATHERED it is him.

Stop being stupid.
Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with Jerry Brown.

Do you understand the biological influences associated with burning conifers in the west? No!

Thinning a forest lightens the fuel load, for a short period of time, while almost immediately "succession of a forest" takes control, sometimes making things more combustible. Depending on whether you know what that means? Thinning for a very short period of time can help. But right after that, it can actually be worse. You need to know vegetation, weather, climate, Biomes, terrain, and have a key understanding of biological succession to formulate an intelligent conclusion. You have not done any of that. All you can do is create an idiotic post about Jerry Brown.

And funny faces are for cowards like you.

The State has approved 1 Billion to do just that over the next 5 years.............

Now they will be challenged by the same enviro nuts that have stopped other attempts in the past........

The enviro groups will sue him..........for not maintaining the old positions........which are burning the state to the ground.

It took people dying to force this change.

Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Get a clue.

Thousand year old trees have been surviving burning for some cases for 2500 years............The burn controls the underbrush and the lower canapy.............Which is caused dense fuel loads.............This was predicted by the GAO as early as 2000 when Bill Clinton put the Roadless law in effect...............They quoted what would happen if the forest are mismanaged and they were spot on. Even Brown is now finally understanding that and has put a billion dollars into doing what I've been saying on multiple threads...............

What did it take to cause that...............An entire city burning to the ground where it is quite possibly hundreds of dead and the worst fire in California History.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You are a failed ideology...........your failure is still burning.........people like you should be dismissed along with your failed policies.

At some point in time you just have to chalk it up to retardation.

You did get one thing right though. " An ounce of prevention". Which is the whole point. It doesn't seem to register in the minds of total imbecile's that an "ounce of prevention" is the only thing possible in most cases, which is not nearly enough for millions of acres. "An ounce of protection" involves massive coordination from hundreds of thousands of people involving doing the same thing at the same time. And who is going to do that? Lol! People must be willing to do the same thing at the same time, and the timing of the prevention must be perfect.'

And what if they do not have the authority for such prevention, if it is on federal and state lands that surround their homes?

And what if ordinary citizens are not educated enough to conduct fire prevention? Most are not.

You have no real understanding of "an ounce of prevention. "

An ounce of prevention is an overly simplistic way of stating common-sense.
If you do what you can before a fire to prevent it, the fire often times isn't as bad or never happens in the first place.
Notice how so many homes were involved in the fire. Why? Because California water conservation regulations made it a crime to water your lawn. Tree-hugging lawyers used the courts in CA to keep people from clearing undergrowth around their properties. Undergrowth is the primary cause of wildfires. Never mind the simple fact that CA laws made it too expensive to manage the forests. Permits cost too much.

Because of a measurable drought index, high temperatures, and high winds, watering your lawn is a useless practice, for such a condition. Which happens in California. Ca laws understand that removal of excessive amounts of brush will only destroy property by creating an environment for mud slides and erosion.

At the end of the day, human habitation in these areas is usually short term, and is simply unsustainable.

 

[BWK]

Any one here posting about Northern California fires live in California? my guess not.

Anyone here study fire science? Based on their answers, no. All they know, is that they want to blame Jerry Brown. What a bunch of idiots.

 

[The Purge]

Massive Federal Response Being Delivered To Help With California Wildfires

Townhall.com ^

It’s hard to imagine the real destruction of the California wildfires. Scores of people dead, hundreds missing, thousands of structures destroyed, and hundreds of acres burned to the ground. It’s a tragedy the likes of which our nation has never seen before.

In times like these, those affected by the wildfires need urgent assistance, and that’s exactly what they’re getting from the Trump administration.

The scale of the disaster is hard to overstate. This year marks the state’s worst fire season ever, punctuated by the “Camp” and “Woolsey” fires.

The Camp fire alone has claimed at least 77 lives, out of a total of at least 94 fire-related deaths for the season. That same fire has all but wiped out Paradise, California, a prosperous community of 26,000, and sent the residents of a dozen other towns fleeing for their lives. All told, more than 1.6 million acreshave been setablaze this year. That’s an area bigger than the entire state of Delaware.

Luckily, our brave firefighters and other first responders appear to have turned the corner in their battle with the blaze. The massive Woolsey brushfire in Southern California is 96 percent contained, while the Camp Fire in the Central Valley is finally 70 percent contained with the end of danger now just barely in sight.


President Trump and his administration have been there for every part of this fight. This past weekend, President Trump visited California to consult with local leaders. He hosted Governor Jerry Brown aboard Air Force One, and toured the devastation with Brown, Governor-elect Gavin Newsom, Paradise Mayor Jody Jones, and U.S. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy.

Also accompanying President Trump was FEMA Administrator Brock Long, who is tasked with implementing the robust federal response to this disaster. Even before the President’s major disaster declaration, FEMA was on the scene helping state and local first responders and providing shelter and other assistance to those driven from their homes. With President Trump’s declaration in effect, FEMA is setting up disaster recovery centers across the wildfire zones for those directly affected.

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke has also visitedCalifornia no fewer than four times to help coordinate the response to this year’s record-setting fire season. Some of the blazes began or touched on federal lands, and the Department of the Interior and its Bureau of Land Management are integral to studying the causes to help prevent these tragedies from recurring in the future.

Wildfires are an inevitable feature of the American West, and the drought conditions this year all but guaranteed that a spark would catch somewhere. This administration recognizes, however, that we must provide better management, prevention, and response in the future.

God willing, we’ve rounded the corner on 2018’s wildfire disasters in California. The people most affected can now begin to mourn their friends, repair their property, and rebuild their lives.

It’s the federal government’s duty to help them through this ordeal and work to ensure that this scale of devastation can never happen again. It’s a duty from which this administration will not shrink.

 

[mudwhistle]

fire or the 'spotted owl; works pretty good for depopulating an area . See 'HAPPY CAMP' in northern kalifornia . It was once a nice little logging and tourist town were President Teddy Roosevelt used to visit . The tiny town was put out of business by the Spotted OWL and the enviro nazis BWK .

Of course Trump is right, but go and challenge them to undo the regulations and then watch judges jump into action to deny them the right of re-writing them!

California Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown, after denouncing the president as an environmental doofus, has, in recent days, quietly pushed state lawmakers to loosen restrictions on logging regulations that were put in place to satisfy raging environmentalists — “a move that appears to have confirmed that President Trump’s recent critiques of state logging practices” and lousy forest management “was correct.”

In August, The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Brown, one of the most environmental wacko governors currently in office, proposed that lawmakers change current rules to allow for some thinning of state-controlled forest lands...

Read more at dcdirtylaundry.com ...

Jerry Brown has been a cancer on California since before I moved there in the 70s. He and his father, whom I met once.
He will never admit that Trump was right.
And currently Jerry Brown is in deep trouble because of all of the deaths his regulations have caused.
Voters are holding him personally responsible.

Trump is not right. Thinning is not going to stop wildfires in the west. It temporarily reduces the fuel load opening the area up for "succession", which is just as bad. Jerry Brown has nothing to do with it. Stop being stup

Jerry Brown deserves any, and all backlash from this issue. If there ever was a politician that deserves to be TARRED, and FEATHERED it is him.

Stop being stupid.
Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with Jerry Brown.

Do you understand the biological influences associated with burning conifers in the west? No!

Thinning a forest lightens the fuel load, for a short period of time, while almost immediately "succession of a forest" takes control, sometimes making things more combustible. Depending on whether you know what that means? Thinning for a very short period of time can help. But right after that, it can actually be worse. You need to know vegetation, weather, climate, Biomes, terrain, and have a key understanding of biological succession to formulate an intelligent conclusion. You have not done any of that. All you can do is create an idiotic post about Jerry Brown.

And funny faces are for cowards like you.

The State has approved 1 Billion to do just that over the next 5 years.............

Now they will be challenged by the same enviro nuts that have stopped other attempts in the past........

The enviro groups will sue him..........for not maintaining the old positions........which are burning the state to the ground.

It took people dying to force this change.

Description
Western United States land managers are conducting fuel reduction and forest restoration treatments in forests with altered structural conditions. As part of the National Fire and Fire Surrogate (FFS) study, thinning and burning treatments were evaluated for changing forest structure. Shifts between pretreatment and posttreatment diameter distributions at seven western FFS study sites were determined by assessing live tree diameter frequency distributions and the 10th and 90th percentile and mean diameter. Diameter distributions were based on 31,517 live trees within 76 pretreatment units and 25,061 live trees within 85 posttreatment units. Cross-site comparisons were made using meta-analysis. Values for l0th-percentile diameter increased at two sites, values for 90th-percentile diameter increased at six sites, and values for mean diameter increased at five sites (P < 0.05) after active treatments (thin, burn, or thin + burn) compared with control sites. Across the seven western FFS study sites, the overall effect size of the thin treatment increased for 90th percentile and mean diameter; the overall effect size of the burn treatment increased for 10th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter; and the overall effect size of the thin + burn treatment increased for l0th percentile, 90th percentile, and mean diameter. This work indicates that although each of the active treatments was effective in shifting diameter distributions toward larger trees, no single treatment or entry will probably mitigate nearly a century of fire exclusion and fuel accumulation in dry coniferous forests of the Western United States.

Get a clue.

Thousand year old trees have been surviving burning for some cases for 2500 years............The burn controls the underbrush and the lower canapy.............Which is caused dense fuel loads.............This was predicted by the GAO as early as 2000 when Bill Clinton put the Roadless law in effect...............They quoted what would happen if the forest are mismanaged and they were spot on. Even Brown is now finally understanding that and has put a billion dollars into doing what I've been saying on multiple threads...............

What did it take to cause that...............An entire city burning to the ground where it is quite possibly hundreds of dead and the worst fire in California History.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You are a failed ideology...........your failure is still burning.........people like you should be dismissed along with your failed policies.

At some point in time you just have to chalk it up to retardation.

You did get one thing right though. " An ounce of prevention". Which is the whole point. It doesn't seem to register in the minds of total imbecile's that an "ounce of prevention" is the only thing possible in most cases, which is not nearly enough for millions of acres. "An ounce of protection" involves massive coordination from hundreds of thousands of people involving doing the same thing at the same time. And who is going to do that? Lol! People must be willing to do the same thing at the same time, and the timing of the prevention must be perfect.'

And what if they do not have the authority for such prevention, if it is on federal and state lands that surround their homes?

And what if ordinary citizens are not educated enough to conduct fire prevention? Most are not.

You have no real understanding of "an ounce of prevention. "

An ounce of prevention is an overly simplistic way of stating common-sense.
If you do what you can before a fire to prevent it, the fire often times isn't as bad or never happens in the first place.
Notice how so many homes were involved in the fire. Why? Because California water conservation regulations made it a crime to water your lawn. Tree-hugging lawyers used the courts in CA to keep people from clearing undergrowth around their properties. Undergrowth is the primary cause of wildfires. Never mind the simple fact that CA laws made it too expensive to manage the forests. Permits cost too much.

Because of a measurable drought index, high temperatures, and high winds, watering your lawn is a useless practice, for such a condition. Which happens in California. Ca laws understand that removal of excessive amounts of brush will only destroy property by creating an environment for mud slides and erosion.

At the end of the day, human habitation in these areas is usually short term, and is simply unsustainable.

That sounds rational....but it's hogwash. When you reduce the underbrush you allow more water to get to the trees when it rains. It also reduces the possibility of diseases. The trick to it is timing your clearing. Clear away the undergrowth during dry spells, which allows more grass to grow when it does rain.
What you just repeated is something that Progressives believe.....fewer people means less pollution. So you make people live in a tinderbox and leave their fate to Mother Nature.
So I guess murder by fire is their solution. Add that to Planned-Parenthood, Democrats are real busy keeping our populations under control.

 

[pismoe]

part of the plan to REWILD sparsly populated 'northern kalifornia' and other areas .