But Sweden has gun control...and their gun control laws don't work? But......how is this possible?

[Vegasgiants]

Wrong......Mexico has one gun store, it is located on a military base, and only the rich and politically connected have access.............Mexican criminals, however, get all the guns they want, a lot of them from the Mexican military.

Why don't gun laws apply to drug cartels? You guys tell us that gun laws stop gun crime, so drug cartels should be stopped by those gun control laws...

You have to be kidding if you think Mexico does not have tons of guns. The cartels own the cops....those laws dont apply to them


Come on man

 

[Vegasgiants]

We have drug cartels operating in our democrat party controlled cities.......as well as American gangs who also control the drug trade in democrat party controlled cities....

Name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths

 

[2aguy]

You have to be kidding if you think Mexico does not have tons of guns. The cartels own the cops....those laws dont apply to them


Come on man

I didn't say that, you moron.....read my post, slowly, or have someone read it to you.....

There is one gun store in Mexico....it is on an army base with extremely limited access for Mexican Citizens......only the politically connected and wealthy have access to it....

The drug cartels get all the guns they want......even though it is against the law for them to have those guns.....they have military weapons, military rifles, as well as other military weapons...supplied to a great extent by the Mexican military.......

You doofus.........

Mexican citizens have almost zero access to legal guns, while the criminals get all the guns they want.....perfect gun control....

 

[Vegasgiants]

I didn't say that, you moron.....read my post, slowly, or have someone read it to you.....

There is one gun store in Mexico....it is on an army base with extremely limited access for Mexican Citizens......only the politically connected and wealthy have access to it....

The drug cartels get all the guns they want......even though it is against the law for them to have those guns.....they have military weapons, military rifles, as well as other military weapons...supplied to a great extent by the Mexican military.......

You doofus.........

Mexican citizens have almost zero access to legal guns, while the criminals get all the guns they want.....perfect gun control....

Actually they get tons of guns from the US.


So you admit gun laws only work if you cant pay off the cops

 

[2aguy]

Name a country with gun laws you admire that has low gun deaths

The U.S..........our Right to keep and bear arms should be the model for the world.....then you wouldn't have Russia invading Ukraine, you wouldn't have the crime rates that we have in our extreme gun controlled democrat party run cities.....

We don't have a gun problem in the U.S...we have a criminal problem fueled by the democrat party and it's policies on crime.....1) attacking and handicapping the police, and 2) releasing the most violent criminals over and over again....

Brazil recently increased the ability of their citizens to own guns...their gun murder rate went down.......

 

[Vegasgiants]

The U.S..........our Right to keep and bear arms should be the model for the world.....then you wouldn't have Russia invading Ukraine, you wouldn't have the crime rates that we have in our extreme gun controlled democrat party run cities.....

We don't have a gun problem in the U.S...we have a criminal problem fueled by the democrat party and it's policies on crime.....1) attacking and handicapping the police, and 2) releasing the most violent criminals over and over again....

Brazil recently increased the ability of their citizens to own guns...their gun murder rate went down.......

I said LOW GUN DEATHS


Try again. Just one will do

 

[2aguy]

Actually they get tons of guns from the US.


So you admit gun laws only work if you cant pay off the cops

Gun laws don't work, you doofus.....since as you said, if you are willing to break the law, you can get guns.....

They get guns from the U.S. primarily through the Mexican military. The U.S. supplies the Mexican military, then the generals and other members sell those guns to the cartels.......

When the government can't or won't protect the citizens, as Mexico shows us.....the Right to Keep and Bear arms is vital for protecting the normal people from criminals and their government...

 

[Vegasgiants]

Gun laws don't work, you doofus.....since as you said, if you are willing to break the law, you can get guns.....

They get guns from the U.S. primarily through the Mexican military. The U.S. supplies the Mexican military, then the generals and other members sell those guns to the cartels.......

When the government can't or won't protect the citizens, as Mexico shows us.....the Right to Keep and Bear arms is vital for protecting the normal people from criminals and their government...

Dude they drive truckloads of guns across the border from the US to Mexico

Still waiting for that country


Want me to name the ones with low gun deaths?

 

[2aguy]

I said LOW GUN DEATHS


Try again. Just one will do

The U.S.....again....our Right to Keep and Bear arms means we have freedom...the countries of Europe?

In the 1920s and 30s they banned and confiscated guns......in 1939, the German socialists murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children.......in a 6 year period.....

Those 15 million murdered people are more people murdered in less time than all the gun murder in the U.S. over 82 years....so no, you don't get to play your game.....those 15 million get thrown into the tally, and that means Europe has a higher murder rate than the U.S.......

Our Right to keep and bear arms is meant to protect us from both criminals and the government......

 

[2aguy]

Dude they drive truckloads of guns across the border from the US to Mexico

Still waiting for that country


Want me to name the ones with low gun deaths?

Yes....in military trucks, you idiot..........the primary source of weapons for the drug cartels in Mexico is the Mexican government and military.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Gang shootings in Sweden....yes.....Sweden, home of the Swedish Bikini Team.....are seeing an increase in gang shootings.......largely due to immigrant gangs.....

But...we here in the U.S. are told, constantly, that Europe controls guns.......

Not so much.....

Expert: 'Terrible Year' As Swedish Fatal Shootings Could Break Records

Expert Gunnar Appelgren has warned Sweden could be in for a "terrible year" fatal shootings could break records if current trends continue.

www.breitbart.com

And the original source for the story...for those leftists about to bitch about Breitbart.....

Appelgren noted that many of the killings are linked to criminal gang activity and revenge disputes between gang members. “There are still very violent conflicts and spirals where revenge begets revenge. The very first crime of trying to kill someone creates this spiral of violence,” he said.

In recent years, Swedish police have managed to get scores of gang members off the streets of cities like Malmö, largely thanks to the hacking of the encrypted messaging app EncroChat, which was widely used by organized criminals across the country. ‘Europe.
----
However, according to Appelgren, gang members who were taken off the streets have been replaced by younger gang members who are just as willing to use guns.

'A terrible year' as fatal shootings in Sweden could break records

Swedish police gang crime expert Gunnar Appelgren has warned Sweden could have a "terrible year" as the number of fatal shootings could hit new records if

goodwordnews.com

Can any of you anti-gun fascists explain how it is that young Swedes are getting guns that are illegal for them to own, let alone carry?

Don’t diss Abba or you get the bullets.

 

[Vegasgiants]

The U.S.....again....our Right to Keep and Bear arms means we have freedom...the countries of Europe?

In the 1920s and 30s they banned and confiscated guns......in 1939, the German socialists murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children.......in a 6 year period.....

Those 15 million murdered people are more people murdered in less time than all the gun murder in the U.S. over 82 years....so no, you don't get to play your game.....those 15 million get thrown into the tally, and that means Europe has a higher murder rate than the U.S.......

Our Right to keep and bear arms is meant to protect us from both criminals and the government......

So you believe the US has low gun deaths?


Dude.....be serious

 

[Vegasgiants]

Yes....in military trucks, you idiot..........the primary source of weapons for the drug cartels in Mexico is the Mexican government and military.

Prove it

 

[2aguy]

So you believe the US has low gun deaths?


Dude.....be serious

Yeah.....I do.......our gun murders are confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities........the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe....stay out of the democrat party cities, in particular a tiny area in those very cities, and you won't be a victim of gun murder....

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

We have drug cartels operating in our democrat party controlled cities.......as well as American gangs who also control the drug trade in democrat party controlled cities....

Openly? Brazenly? C'mon, not even you can add enough water to make that argument float.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Yeah.....I do.......our gun murders are confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities........the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe....stay out of the democrat party cities, in particular a tiny area in those very cities, and you won't be a victim of gun murder....

So if you exclude the gun deaths we have low gun deaths


Dude....that is priceless!!!!!!!!

 

[2aguy]

Prove it

Okay....

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.

worldview.stratfor.com

Types and Sources of Guns​

To gain an understanding of the dynamics of the gun flow inside Mexico, it helps if one divides the guns seized by Mexican authorities from criminals into three broad categories — which, incidentally, just happen to represent three different sources.

Type 1: Guns Legally Available in Mexico​

The first category of weapons encountered in Mexico is weapons available legally for sale in Mexico through UCAM. These include handguns smaller than a .357 magnum such as .380 and .38 Special.

A large portion of this first type of guns used by criminals is purchased in Mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners. While UCAM does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from UCAM or obtain them from corrupt officials. Cartel hit men in Mexico commonly use .380 pistols equipped with sound suppressors in their assassinations. In many cases, these pistols are purchased in Mexico, the suppressors are locally manufactured and the guns are adapted to receive the suppressors by Mexican gunsmiths.

It must be noted, though, that because of the cost and hassle of purchasing guns in Mexico, many of the guns in this category are purchased in the United States and smuggled into the country. There are a lot of cheap guns available on the U.S. market, and they can be sold at a premium in Mexico. Indeed, guns in this category, such as .380 pistols and .22-caliber rifles and pistols, are among the guns most commonly traced back to the United States. Still, the numbers do not indicate that 90 percent of guns in this category come from the United States.

Additionally, most of the explosives the cartels have been using in improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Mexico over the past year have used commercially available Tovex, so we consider these explosives to fall in this first category. Mexican IEDs are another area where the rhetoric has been interesting to analyze, but we will explore this topic another time.
-----

Type 2: Guns Legally Available in the U.S. but Not in Mexico​

Many popular handgun calibers, such as 9 mm, .45 and .40, are reserved for the military and police and are not available for sale to civilians in Mexico. These guns, which are legally sold and very popular in the United States, comprise our second category, which also includes .50-caliber rifles, semiautomatic versions of assault rifles like the AK-47 and M16 and the FN Five-Seven pistol.

When we consider this second type of guns, a large number of them encountered in Mexico are likely purchased in the United States. Indeed, the GAO report notes that many of the guns most commonly traced back to the United States fall into this category. There are also many .45-caliber and 9 mm semiautomatic pistols and .357 revolvers obtained from deserters from the Mexican military and police, purchased from corrupt Mexican authorities or even brought in from South America (guns made by manufacturers such as Taurus and Bersa). This category also includes semiautomatic variants of assault rifles and main battle rifles, which are often converted by Mexican gunsmiths to be capable of fully automatic fire.

One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Type 3: Guns Not Available for Civilian Purchase in Mexico or the U.S.​

The third category of weapons encountered in Mexico is military-grade ordnance not generally available for sale in the United States or Mexico. This category includes hand grenades, 40 mm grenades, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), automatic assault rifles and main battle rifles and light machine guns.

This third type of weapon is fairly difficult and very expensive to obtain in the United States, especially in the large numbers in which the cartels are employing them. They are also dangerous to obtain in the United States due to heavy law enforcement scrutiny. Therefore, most of the military ordnance used by the Mexican cartels comes from other sources, such as the international arms market — increasingly from China via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing — or from corrupt elements in the Mexican military or even deserters who take their weapons with them. Besides, items such as South Korean fragmentation grenades and RPG-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the U.S. arsenal. This means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the United States.

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.

But Guatemala is not the only source of such weapons. Latin America is awash in weapons that were shipped there over the past several decades to supply the various insurgencies and counterinsurgencies in the region. When these military-grade weapons are combined with the rampant corruption in the region, they quickly find their way into the black arms market. The Mexican cartels have supply-chain contacts that help move narcotics to Mexico from South America, and they are able to use this same network to obtain guns from the black market in South and Central America and then smuggle them into Mexico. While there are many weapons in this category that were manufactured in the United States, the overwhelming majority of the U.S.-manufactured weapons of this third type encountered in Mexico — like LAW rockets and M60 machine guns — come into Mexico from third countries and not directly from the United States.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-control-laws-a-model-for-the-united-states/


Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico. To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives. The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/

Stratfor: The World's Leading Geopolitical Intelligence Platform

weapons-manufacturing-capabilities/

Intelligence reports indicate that one of Mexico’s most dangerous cartels continues to increase their capabilities by manufacturing weapons. The arms are built in clandestine factories with advanced technology and practices.​

--------

To maintain their growing power, CJNG is building clandestine arms factories in Colima and Jalisco, specializing in assault rifles. The weapons are clones of the popular AR-15 rifles and AK-47s in .223cal, 7.62x39mm, and .308cal. The weapons can be identified by their lacking factory markings and serial numbers. Additionally, some of the arms are metallic in color since some factories do not apply the matte finish to protect from rust.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Okay....

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.

worldview.stratfor.com

Types and Sources of Guns​

To gain an understanding of the dynamics of the gun flow inside Mexico, it helps if one divides the guns seized by Mexican authorities from criminals into three broad categories — which, incidentally, just happen to represent three different sources.

Type 1: Guns Legally Available in Mexico​

The first category of weapons encountered in Mexico is weapons available legally for sale in Mexico through UCAM. These include handguns smaller than a .357 magnum such as .380 and .38 Special.

A large portion of this first type of guns used by criminals is purchased in Mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners. While UCAM does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from UCAM or obtain them from corrupt officials. Cartel hit men in Mexico commonly use .380 pistols equipped with sound suppressors in their assassinations. In many cases, these pistols are purchased in Mexico, the suppressors are locally manufactured and the guns are adapted to receive the suppressors by Mexican gunsmiths.

It must be noted, though, that because of the cost and hassle of purchasing guns in Mexico, many of the guns in this category are purchased in the United States and smuggled into the country. There are a lot of cheap guns available on the U.S. market, and they can be sold at a premium in Mexico. Indeed, guns in this category, such as .380 pistols and .22-caliber rifles and pistols, are among the guns most commonly traced back to the United States. Still, the numbers do not indicate that 90 percent of guns in this category come from the United States.

Additionally, most of the explosives the cartels have been using in improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Mexico over the past year have used commercially available Tovex, so we consider these explosives to fall in this first category. Mexican IEDs are another area where the rhetoric has been interesting to analyze, but we will explore this topic another time.
-----

Type 2: Guns Legally Available in the U.S. but Not in Mexico​

Many popular handgun calibers, such as 9 mm, .45 and .40, are reserved for the military and police and are not available for sale to civilians in Mexico. These guns, which are legally sold and very popular in the United States, comprise our second category, which also includes .50-caliber rifles, semiautomatic versions of assault rifles like the AK-47 and M16 and the FN Five-Seven pistol.

When we consider this second type of guns, a large number of them encountered in Mexico are likely purchased in the United States. Indeed, the GAO report notes that many of the guns most commonly traced back to the United States fall into this category. There are also many .45-caliber and 9 mm semiautomatic pistols and .357 revolvers obtained from deserters from the Mexican military and police, purchased from corrupt Mexican authorities or even brought in from South America (guns made by manufacturers such as Taurus and Bersa). This category also includes semiautomatic variants of assault rifles and main battle rifles, which are often converted by Mexican gunsmiths to be capable of fully automatic fire.

One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Type 3: Guns Not Available for Civilian Purchase in Mexico or the U.S.​

The third category of weapons encountered in Mexico is military-grade ordnance not generally available for sale in the United States or Mexico. This category includes hand grenades, 40 mm grenades, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), automatic assault rifles and main battle rifles and light machine guns.

This third type of weapon is fairly difficult and very expensive to obtain in the United States, especially in the large numbers in which the cartels are employing them. They are also dangerous to obtain in the United States due to heavy law enforcement scrutiny. Therefore, most of the military ordnance used by the Mexican cartels comes from other sources, such as the international arms market — increasingly from China via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing — or from corrupt elements in the Mexican military or even deserters who take their weapons with them. Besides, items such as South Korean fragmentation grenades and RPG-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the U.S. arsenal. This means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the United States.

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.

But Guatemala is not the only source of such weapons. Latin America is awash in weapons that were shipped there over the past several decades to supply the various insurgencies and counterinsurgencies in the region. When these military-grade weapons are combined with the rampant corruption in the region, they quickly find their way into the black arms market. The Mexican cartels have supply-chain contacts that help move narcotics to Mexico from South America, and they are able to use this same network to obtain guns from the black market in South and Central America and then smuggle them into Mexico. While there are many weapons in this category that were manufactured in the United States, the overwhelming majority of the U.S.-manufactured weapons of this third type encountered in Mexico — like LAW rockets and M60 machine guns — come into Mexico from third countries and not directly from the United States.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-control-laws-a-model-for-the-united-states/


Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico. To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives. The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/

Stratfor: The World's Leading Geopolitical Intelligence Platform

weapons-manufacturing-capabilities/

Intelligence reports indicate that one of Mexico’s most dangerous cartels continues to increase their capabilities by manufacturing weapons. The arms are built in clandestine factories with advanced technology and practices.​

--------

To maintain their growing power, CJNG is building clandestine arms factories in Colima and Jalisco, specializing in assault rifles. The weapons are clones of the popular AR-15 rifles and AK-47s in .223cal, 7.62x39mm, and .308cal. The weapons can be identified by their lacking factory markings and serial numbers. Additionally, some of the arms are metallic in color since some factories do not apply the matte finish to protect from rust.

Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[2aguy]

So if you exclude the gun deaths we have low gun deaths


Dude....that is priceless!!!!!!!!

Moron.........

The gun murders in the U.S. are concentrated in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities.......the rest of the country is as good or better than Europe...without the mass murder of civillians


Of the gun murder in the U.S.....70-80 sometimes 90% of the victims are not regular citizens...they are criminals murdered by other criminals engaged in criminal activity.....

The rest of the victims? The majority of those victims are the friends, family and associates of the criminals, accidentally hit in the cross fire.........

So yes....the U.S., the non democrat party controlled areas, have incredibly low gun murder rates....

And before you ask....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

 

[2aguy]

Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I posted from Stratfor, you posted wikipedia......really?