Business, Taxes, and The Big Mistake: Obama

PoliticalChic

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The dichotomy:

For conservatives, taxes are meant to pay for the legitimate duties of government, as deliniated in Article 1, section 8- the enumerated powers. And any excess collected is to be returned to the people as tax cuts.

For Liberals/Conservatives/Democrats, taxes are to penalize the successful and 'level the playing field,' or some other imaginary collectivist goal.
And, with "the Big Mistake, Obama", in charge.... the slowest in the modern era going back to 1947





1. "...the venerable Business Roundtable, whose member companies generate annual revenues of more than $7 trillion while employing 16 million...“If we want to control the deficit, preserve key entitlement programs, educate our children, and offer upward economic mobility for everyone, we have to get our economy growing faster.”
Sounds like JFK. Or Ronald Reagan. Or Jack Kemp.
A rising tide lifts all boats.

2. ...Randall Stephenson, chairman of AT&T and the new head of the Business Roundtable... zeroed in on this key point:

“And make no mistake, economic growth doesn’t happen absent private investment . . . Where there is investment — a new factory, or distribution facility being built, a new store about to open, new software being installed — that is where new jobs are created.”





3. ... in today’s recovery — the slowest in the modern era going back to 1947 — private capital investment has lagged badly. ... so has the jobs situation, with 92 million dropping out of the workforce altogether. A labor-participation rate of 62.8% and an employment-to-population rate of 58% are historic lows indicative of the anemic jobs recovery.




4. ... what he and the Business Roundtable are aiming at is the total reform of the American business tax structure, where marginal rates are the highest among developed countries. He also emphasizes the need to remove barriers to bringing overseas earnings back home.

5. .... a one percentage-point decrease in the average corporate tax rate would raise real U.S. GDP by about 0.5% within one year. He concludes that “Any serious agenda for economic growth must begin with reforming taxes for all businesses — large and small.”

6. .... abolish the corporate tax altogether. According to his model, while overall growth and investment would surge, higher wages would be the biggest beneficiary.





7. Trouble is, as I pointed out to Mr. Stephenson, President Obama is talking about inequality and income redistribution, not growth. Instead of unleashing entrepreneurship, Mr. Obama harps on raising the minimum wage and extending unemployment assistance.

a. Mr. Obama would also penalize corporations that hold profits overseas rather than lower penalties so this money would come home for private investment.





8. ... most of the Democratic party has embarked on a path to punish success, not reward it; to enlarge the reach of government in business, rather than incentivize entrepreneurship.

I call this the Sandinista wing of the Democratic party. It’s named after New York City mayor Bill de Blasio, who spent a goodly amount of time in Nicaragua and Cuba and is in full-fledged attack mode to punish successful earners and businesses by raising taxes of “fairness.”

9. Fairness is not opportunity. But tell that to Senator Warren, who also is arguing for punishments on business and banking. Mr. De Blasio and Mrs. Warren are spewing forth the socialist doctrine of equality of results, rather than the capitalist model of equality of opportunity. They want income leveling and redistribution — the opposite of growth.




10. .... Obama appears to have caught the Sandinista diseaseBut then again, that’s what elections are for. ...And that’s why we’re going to see big changes come November." Big Business Swings Behind a Mantra of Growth - The New York Sun




Obama voters.....…taking refuge in complete opacity….
 

JakeStarkey

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PC, elections have consequences. The far right, for which you fulminate, needs to win elections. The far right wing cannot elect their own candidates, but must work with the right of center and the center factions in the GOP. Remember, however, they are not going to permit any of your preferred candidates on the national ticket. Tis what tis.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

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PC, elections have consequences. The far right, for which you fulminate, needs to win elections. The far right wing cannot elect their own candidates, but must work with the right of center and the center factions in the GOP. Remember, however, they are not going to permit any of your preferred candidates on the national ticket. Tis what tis.


Jakal!

So sorry...you must have been terribly hurt by my naming Obama as "The Big Mistake," rather than you.....




" The far right, for which you fulminate,..."

Nay, nay....it is for rectitude and probity that I speak.
 

JakeStarkey

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PC, the mistake is yours, dear. You have not be right on a serious topic in a long, long time.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

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PC, the mistake is yours, dear. You have not be right on a serious topic in a long, long time.


"PC, the mistake is yours, dear."

Shucks....aw-right....you are a bigger mistake than the most compassionate, most merciful, Barack Hussein Obama.

....or....at least it's close.




"You have not be right on a serious topic in a long, long time."

Bad grammar makes me (sic).
 

waltky

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Granny says, "Dat's right - taxes is too high...
:mad:
Gallup: 52% of Americans Say Federal Income Taxes Too High
April 15, 2014 - - Just in time for tax deadline day, a new Gallup poll finds that a majority of Americans -- 52 percent -- say they pay too much federal income tax, while 42 percent say they amount they pay is "about right." Three percent said their federal taxes are "too low."
Gallup says the percentage who say their taxes are "too high" has hovered around 50 percent since 2003, although the current 52 percent is up from the 46 percent who said "too high" two years ago. While a slim majority of Americans say their federal tax burden is too high, roughly the same percentage (54 percent) also say their taxes are fair. However, the view that taxes are fair is becoming less common, and, at 54 percent this year, is down to its lowest point since 2001 -- after peaking at 64 percent in 2003.

Looking at the partisan divide, Democrats were the only group in which a majority, 55 percent, said their taxes are "about right." A majority of Republicans and independents said their taxes are "too high." Furthermore, Democrats (69 percent) were significantly more likely than Republicans (46 percent) and independents (51 percent) to say their taxes are fair.

Six in 10 upper-income Americans -- those earning $75,000 or more annually -- believe their taxes are too high, and the majority consider what they pay unfair. By contrast, barely half of middle- and lower-income Americans think their taxes are too high, and the majority consider them fair. The bottom line: Gallup says the slight increase this year in Americans' views that their taxes are too high may reflect an actual increase in taxes, either direct or indirect, especially among upper-income Americans.

The uptick also may reflect overall discontent with the federal government, Congress, and the Affordable Care Act, Gallup said. "As political leaders discuss ways to simplify the tax code, the federal government also may want to revisit the amount of money Americans pay in taxes," Gallup concluded. Gallup based its poll results on telephone interviews conducted April 3-6, 2014, on the Gallup Daily tracking survey, with a random sample of 1,026 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia.

Gallup: 52% of Americans Say Federal Income Taxes Too High | CNS News
See also:

$100K-Plus Earners Pay 72% of Federal Income Taxes
April 14, 2014 -- Taxpayers earning $100,000 or more a year pay 71.6% of the nation’s share in individual federal income taxes, according to the latest data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) from 2011.
These data do not include corporate income taxes, or taxes on capital gains or dividends, or payroll taxes for Social Security and other programs. In 2011, according to the IRS, there were 145,370,240 individual income tax returns filed. Among those returns, 125,914,418 or 86.6%, belonged to taxpayers earning a salary less than $100,000. The remaining 19,455,822 returns belonged to those taxpayers earning more than $100,000, or 13.4% of the total.

While those top earners, earning six figures or more, represented only 13.4% of the total number of individual income tax returns reported to the IRS, they contributed nearly three-fourths of the total amount of federal tax revenue from individual filers reported for that year. In 2011, the IRS collected $1,088,559,743,000 based on taxpayers' taxable income. From that total, 71.6%, or $779,547,834,000 came from those taxpayers earning six figures or more. Only 28.4%, or $308,816,180,000, came from those earning less than $100,000.

The IRS has been posting these tax data online since 1996, when the share of the nation’s tax-burden (on individual income) held by six-figure earners was 51%. Since then, the share of the nation’s taxes paid by six-figure earners has increased, peaking (so far) in 2007 when top earners paid 72.6% of the nation’s individual income taxes.

Those individual income taxes, $1.08 trillion, comprised 47% of the federal government's revenue in fiscal year 2011, which was $2.3 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The balance came from employment or social insurance taxes (36%); corporate income taxes (8%); excise taxes (3%); custom duties (0.3%); and miscellaneous receipts (4%).

$100K-Plus Earners Pay 72% of Federal Income Taxes | CNS News
Related:

3 U.S. Oil Companies Paid Highest Corporate Income Taxes: $289.7B in 2007-12
April 15, 2014 – Three U.S. oil companies paid a total of $289.7 billion in corporate income taxes between 2007 and 2012, the biggest portion of corporate taxes in absolute terms, according to analysis by Standard & Poor’s Capital IQ.
The data show, as reported in the New York Times on May 25, 2013, that when it came to corporate income taxes -- federal, state, local, and foreign – between 2007 to 2012 the three major oil companies paid the following: ExxonMobil, $146 billion; Chevron, $85.5 billion; and ConocoPhillips, $58.2 billion. That totals $289.7 billion. In addition, a 2013 report (p. 7) by the oil and natural gas trade group American Petroleum Institute (API), using S&P Research Insight and S&P 1500 by GICS Industry Code data, shows that the oil and gas industry had the highest effective tax rate during that time period (averaged over 2007-2012) of any U.S. business: 44.6%.

That compares, according to S&P Capital IQ, to Apple -- the largest market capital company at $400 billion – which had an effective tax rate of 14% over the same timeframe. Oil and gas firms are paying more than three times the tax rate of Apple. The API report also shows the effective tax rate of other industries: Industrial conglomerates (15.8%); insurance (17.8%); pharmaceuticals (21.3%) and computer and peripherals (25.6%), among others. (Page 7)

API data show that between income taxes, rents, royalties and other fees, the oil and natural gas industry pays millions of dollars to the U.S. Treasury every day. “The federal government collects an average of $85 million per day from America’s oil and natural gas industry,” Brian Straessle, spokesperson for API, told CNSNews.com. “We pay our fair share and then some while providing energy to families and businesses and supporting millions of jobs throughout the economy.”

The oil and gas industry supports 9.8 million U.S. jobs and represents 8% of the Gross Domestic Product, according to API. In 2011, the industry pumped $545 billion into the U.S. economy through capital investment, wages and dividends, according to API.

3 U.S. Oil Companies Paid Highest Corporate Income Taxes: $289.7B in 2007-12 | CNS News
 

waltky

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Granny says, "Dat's right - Obama taxin' us more dan we ever been taxed before...
:eek:
Tax Day Tax Revenue Set All-Time Record
April 21, 2014 -- Inflation-adjusted federal tax revenues hit an all-time record of $1,428,710,000,000 from the beginning of the fiscal year on Oct. 1 through April 15, the deadline for filing federal tax returns for 2013, according to the Daily Treasury Statement.
Each business day, the Treasury publishes a statement summarizing the government’s accounts as of the close of the previous business day. This daily statement includes an accounting of total “Federal Tax Deposits” thus far in the fiscal year, which starts on Oct. 1 and ends on Sept. 30. Total “Federal Tax Deposits” include withheld income and employment taxes, individual income taxes, railroad retirement taxes, excise taxes, corporation income taxes, federal unemployment taxes, estate and gift taxes and miscellaneous Internal Revenue Service receipts. As of the close of business on April 15, according to the Daily Treasury Statement, the Treasury had taken in $1,428,710,000,000 in total taxes so far this fiscal year.

In constant 2014 dollars, that was $79,165,040,000 more than the $1,349,544,960,000 the Treasury had collected in taxes by April 15 fiscal 2013, and was a record for federal tax collection as of April 15. Prior to this year, the highest federal tax intake by Tax Day, April 15, occurred in fiscal 2008, when the government collected $1,391,321,650,000 in 2014 dollars, or $37,388,350,000 less than what it had collected by April 15 of this year. In years when April 15 fell on the weekend, CNSNews.com compared the total taxes collected as of April 15 this year with the total tax collected by April 16 or 17 in the year in question.



Despite the record rate of revenue collection so far in this fiscal year, the Treasury reported in its monthly statement for March that through that month the government had already amassed a deficit of $413 billion for fiscal 2014. Each business day, the Treasury publishes a statement summarizing the government’s accounts as of the close of the previous business day. This daily statement includes an accounting of total “Federal Tax Deposits” thus far in the fiscal year, which starts on Oct. 1 and ends on Sept. 30. Total “Federal Tax Deposits” include withheld income and employment taxes, individual income taxes, railroad retirement taxes, excise taxes, corporation income taxes, federal unemployment taxes, estate and gift taxes and miscellaneous Internal Revenue Service receipts. As of the close of business on April 15, according to the Daily Treasury Statement, the Treasury had taken in $1,428,710,000,000 in total taxes so far this fiscal year.

In constant 2014 dollars, that was $79,165,040,000 more than the $1,349,544,960,000 the Treasury had collected in taxes by April 15 fiscal 2013, and was a record for federal tax collection as of April 15. Prior to this year, the highest federal tax intake by Tax Day, April 15, occurred in fiscal 2008, when the government collected $1,391,321,650,000 in 2014 dollars, or $37,388,350,000 less than what it had collected by April 15 of this year. In years when April 15 fell on the weekend, CNSNews.com compared the total taxes collected as of April 15 this year with the total tax collected by April 16 or 17 in the year in question. Despite the record rate of revenue collection so far in this fiscal year, the Treasury reported in its monthly statement for March that through that month the government had already amassed a deficit of $413 billion for fiscal 2014.

Tax Day Tax Revenue Set All-Time Record | CNS News
See also:

Obama Calls for Highest Sustained Taxation in U.S. History
April 21, 2014 -- In the budget proposal he presented to Congress last month, President Barack Obama called for what would be the highest level of sustained taxation ever imposed on the American people, according to the analysis published last week by the Congressional Budget Office.
Under Obama’s proposal, taxes would rise from 17.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product in 2014 to 19.2 percent in 2024. During the ten years from 2015 to 2024, federal taxation would average 18.7 percent GDP. America has never been subjected to a ten-year stretch of taxation at that level. In the twelve fiscal years preceding the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor (1930 through 1941), federal taxation averaged 5.3 percent of GDP. In the five fiscal years encompassing U.S. involvement in World War II (1942 through 1946), federal taxation averaged 16.1 percent of GDP. In the fiscal years since World War II (1947 through 2013), federal taxation has averaged 17.1 percent of GDP.



In the period from fiscal 1992 through 2001, federal taxes averaged 18.3 percent of GDP. But in the last four years of that period (1998 through 2001), the federal budget was in balance. In the twelve fiscal years from 2002 through 2013, federal taxes averaged 16.1 percent of GDP—the same that they averaged during World War II. However, the federal government ran deficits in each of those twelve years. In all ten years from 2015 through 2024, under Obama's proposal, federal taxes would be higher than 18.3 percent of GDP. During the period of 1992 through 2011, there were only five straight years (1997-2001) when federal taxes were higher than 18.3 percent of GDP.

Under Obama’s budget proposal, according to the CBO, the budget will never balance. But over the next ten years, the federal government would add $7.183 trillion to its debt held by the public. While adding that $7.183 trillion to the debt held by the public, Obama would increase taxes by $1.4 trillion, said the CBO report. “The President’s budget would make a number of changes to the tax law,” said the report. “If enacted, those changes would boost revenues by $32 billion in 2015, and by $1.4 trillion, or about 3 percent, during the 2015-2024 period.”

Obama Calls for Highest Sustained Taxation in U.S. History | CNS News
 

Moonglow

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income taxes are too high, state taxes are too high, county taxes are too high, real estate taxes are too high, city taxes are too high. Food should not be taxed and their should not be taxes on our taxes.

But all those in office in areas I have listed do not mind, they're the one getting a paycheck and retirement from our taxes....
 

oldfart

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Granny says, "Dat's right - Obama taxin' us more dan we ever been taxed before...
:eek:
I hope Granny gets to feeling better soon. She usually has a pretty good operating bullshit indicator, which seems to be turned off today. Tell her to eat some chocolate and she'll feel much better. Then she should be able to spot biased sources, inconsistent statements, cherry-picked data, and quotes from sources which are the opposite of the sources actual conclusions. She really does think better when she feels well.
 

Rshermr

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1. "...the venerable Business Roundtable, whose member companies generate annual revenues of more than $7 trillion while employing 16 million...“If we want to control the deficit, preserve key entitlement programs, educate our children, and offer upward economic mobility for everyone, we have to get our economy growing faster.”
Sounds like JFK. Or Ronald Reagan. Or Jack Kemp.
Sounds like every politician since the beginning of time during hard economic times. An says absolutely nothing that anyone with half a brain does not know. Next

A rising tide lifts all boats.
But, from an economic standpoint, has not happened since the pre 1980 timeframe. Instead, the wealthy have gotten more wealthy by huge amounts, and the working class has seen wage stagnation. Just the way PC likes it.
America?s Growing Income Gap, by the Numbers - ProPublica
Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Income Inequality: A Deeper Look | Modeled Behavior
Breaking Down the Income Gap Into Real Terms - US News
AND MANY, MANY MORE.

2. ...Randall Stephenson, chairman of AT&T and the new head of the Business Roundtable... zeroed in on this key point:

“And make no mistake, economic growth doesn’t happen absent private investment . . . Where there is investment — a new factory, or distribution facility being built, a new store about to open, new software being installed — that is where new jobs are created.”
Uh, another quote that says nothing that those with a brain do not already know. Sorry, PC, that leaves you out. But also as Ronald Reagan found, in bad economic times it is necessary to spend stimulatively. That is a function of the US Government, now as then. Because, history shows that no recession resulting from insufficient aggregate demand gets better without it.

3. ... in today’s recovery — the slowest in the modern era going back to 1947 — private capital investment has lagged badly. ... so has the jobs situation, with 92 million dropping out of the workforce altogether. A labor-participation rate of 62.8% and an employment-to-population rate of 58% are historic lows indicative of the anemic jobs recovery.
Another quote with no source, me girl. You could use any of a number of conservative sources, all of whom use the same quotes. Like the aforementioned NY Sun article. Really, you need to not let folks think you thought this little bit of drivel up by yourself. The rest is PURE NONSENSE. More proof of why you should not use partisan sources. They show untrue numbers. Lies, in other words. Like the 92 million number.

Where did the 92 million dropping out of the workforce come from???? Lets check an actual impartial source:
“The more than 91 million Americans who are out of the workforce and stuck on the sidelines deserve action on the part of the president and the Senate.”
–Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.), opinion article in The Tennessean, Jan. 28, 2014
Jesus, Diane Black, that tower of economic knowledge. So, is it true? Lets take a look:
This BLS document shows that the civilian noninstitutional population—essentially, people over the age of 16–is nearly 247 million. The civil labor force is 155 million, with a participation rate of 62.8 percent. So that leaves nearly 92 million “not in the labor force.” What does that mean?
Essentially, it means everyone above the age of 16 who is not working. The BLS breaks it down even further, and it quickly becomes clear that the vast majority of these people are retired or simply are not interested in working, such as stay-at-home parents.
•6 million want a job now but cannot find one.
•2.4 million did not actively search for work.
•1.5 million did not search for work because they are students or left the job market for family reasons, illness or some other factor.
•900,000 are discouraged and think no job is available.
Add that up, along with the 10.3 million who are unemployed, and then maybe you could say there are 21 million people who are “on the sidelines” of the job market. But the other 80 million people have permanently left the work force.
Are there 91 million Americans ?on the sidelines? looking for work?
Why did they permanently leave??? Primarily because they retired. And a variety of other less common reasons. Because they NO LONGER WANTED OR NEEDED TO WORK. And, there is that whole thing called the baby boomers causing a short term spike in retirement.

The Pinocchio Test
Black may have not intended to mislead, but she certainly did so by using the 91 million figure in a wholly inappropriate manner. She did not only say that 91 million people were not in the labor force, but she said these people were “on the sidelines” and would benefit from government action. She cannot with a straight face argue that all of those people want a job; in fact, the vast majority are simply retired. She only barely escapes Four Pinocchios because this is a BLS figure.
Are there 91 million Americans ?on the sidelines? looking for work?
The intent of Black was to scare the hell out of as many people as possible. And the reason that every single right wing web site out there ran those numbers and that quote was they wanted to do the same thing. Knowing fully that they were lying. Kind of like PC.


4. ... what he and the Business Roundtable are aiming at is the total reform of the American business tax structure, where marginal rates are the highest among developed countries. He also emphasizes the need to remove barriers to bringing overseas earnings back home.
That would be the same Business Roundtable which printed the above lies. Nice. We should believe them this time??? Our tax rates are below average for developed countries. Not among the highest.

5. .... a one percentage-point decrease in the average corporate tax rate would raise real U.S. GDP by about 0.5% within one year. He concludes that “Any serious agenda for economic growth must begin with reforming taxes for all businesses — large and small.”
Yup. More bs from the same lying source. Never, ever, in our entire history has decreasing taxes during high unemployment helped. Look at Reagan. He lowered tax rates with a 7.5% ue rate, and the ue rate went to 10.8% over the next 18 months. He then raised tax rates, and by useing stimulative spending, and the ue rate decreased quickly. Which is why, though they love lower corporate taxes, it can not be shown that decreasing corporate taxes lower unemployment OR helps the economy when unemployment is high. And why PC can not show a case where, in the US, we have EVER seen the ue rate decrease when the economy was suffering from low aggregate demand.

6. .... abolish the corporate tax altogether. According to his model, while overall growth and investment would surge, higher wages would be the biggest beneficiary.
Really stupid idea. Perhaps, PC, you can show a single nation with a successful economy with no corporate taxes. You can not because, although it is the libertarian dream, it does not work. Never has, never will. Which is why there are NO successful libertarian economies.

7. Trouble is, as I pointed out to Mr. Stephenson, President Obama is talking about inequality and income redistribution, not growth. Instead of unleashing entrepreneurship, Mr. Obama harps on raising the minimum wage and extending unemployment assistance.
So, PC, you have been talking to Mr. Stephenson??? Really???

a. Mr. Obama would also penalize corporations that hold profits overseas rather than lower penalties so this money would come home for private investment.
So, you think that hiding profits overseas should be allowed, to decrease taxes paid by corporations?? US corporations already pay among the lowest actual tax rates of any major country in the world. (Actual taxes, PC, are taxes paid, not tax rates. They are taxes paid after all deductions)
The U.S. corporate tax burden is smaller than average for developed countries.[1] Corporations in 19 of the member states of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development paid 16.1 percent of their profits in taxes between 2000 and 2005, on average, while corporations in the United States paid 13.4 percent.
Putting U.S. Corporate Taxes in Perspective ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
If you want to reduce taxes, try the middle income taxpayers, the working class. That will at least have SOME stimulative impact on the economy.

8. ... most of the Democratic party has embarked on a path to punish success, not reward it; to enlarge the reach of government in business, rather than incentivize entrepreneurship.
That would be total nonsense, dipshit. No one wants to punish success. Period. But we would like to see the middle class and the working class SHARE in the success.

9. Fairness is not opportunity. But tell that to Senator Warren, who also is arguing for punishments on business and banking. Mr. De Blasio and Mrs. Warren are spewing forth the socialist doctrine of equality of results, rather than the capitalist model of equality of opportunity. They want income leveling and redistribution — the opposite of growth.
That would be your opinion. But then, you are paid by corporate interests and are a proven liar. So, who cares.

10. .... Obama appears to have caught the Sandinista diseaseBut then again, that’s what elections are for. ...And that’s why we’re going to see big changes come November." Big Business Swings Behind a Mantra of Growth - The New York Sun
Sounds like what you said before the last election. How did that work out for you??? How is President Romney doing??? Oh yeah. He disappeared, after getting crushed. You just do not seem to be a great political prognosticator, me dear. Just a con tool.
 

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