Bureaucracy, politics and unintended consequences

[Redfish]

If all entry level jobs are hardly worth the expenses of child care and transportation there is no incentive to even get up and try to work have you considered that? Probably not.

I worked two jobs and went to school.

You say that like it was not an exhausting soul crushing experience.

yeah, a govt check and a package of free cheese would have made him a much better person

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who the hell works as a burger flipper for years on end? No one in a healthy economy. Can we at least agree that such a job should at least keep one in food and shelter? At the moment it does not, and there is no reason for it other than stockholders wanting the biggest possible return for their investment. Wages have not risen appreciably in twenty years, this race to achieve wage parity with China will ruin us more surely than any minimum wage hike.

A minimum wage job has never and will never provide a comfortable living. It will provide basic sustenance if costs are managed properly.

It is not somebody else's fault if you can't rise out of minimum wage.[/QUOTE]








you hit the nail on the head. Libs and dems think it IS someone else's fault and that momma government should fix it.

It's not the average person's fault if the power of money in one's government has been able to rig the economy in such a way as to put labor at such a tremendous disadvantage that millions must work fulltime at jobs that pay so little that the government, to the extent it can hold onto the power to do so, makes supplemental income available to the people working those low wage jobs.

And all the while the money interests in government work to take those benefits away from those minimum wage workers,

in order that the taxes used to pay them can be lowered.

 

[occupied]

I worked two jobs and went to school.

You say that like it was not an exhausting soul crushing experience.

yeah, a govt check and a package of free cheese would have made him a much better person

No, he/she? said it as if it was something anyone could just do without even considering just how wrong it is that in the "land of opportunity" the road to economic security is that damned steep and fraught with peril all just so the CEOs and stockholders can keep more of their "hard earned" money.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If all entry level jobs are hardly worth the expenses of child care and transportation there is no incentive to even get up and try to work have you considered that? Probably not.

I worked two jobs and went to school.

And the minimum wage was higher when you did that than it is now.

 

[Redfish]

You say that like it was not an exhausting soul crushing experience.

yeah, a govt check and a package of free cheese would have made him a much better person

No, he/she? said it as if it was something anyone could just do without even considering just how wrong it is that in the "land of opportunity" the road to economic security is that damned steep and fraught with peril all just so the CEOs and stockholders can keep more of their "hard earned" money.

bullshit, those evil CEOs are where they are because they worked harder and/or were smarter than their counterparts.

My first couple of years out of college I worked a day job and a night job. My hard work was rewarded and I am now retired with a very nice stable retirement income.

I would not have any of that if I relied on the govt to take care of me.

reall freedom includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail, everyone does not succeed---thats life----deal with it.

 

[Redfish]

A minimum wage job has never and will never provide a comfortable living. It will provide basic sustenance if costs are managed properly.

It is not somebody else's fault if you can't rise out of minimum wage.[/QUOTE]








you hit the nail on the head. Libs and dems think it IS someone else's fault and that momma government should fix it.

It's not the average person's fault if the power of money in one's government has been able to rig the economy in such a way as to put labor at such a tremendous disadvantage that millions must work fulltime at jobs that pay so little that the government, to the extent it can hold onto the power to do so, makes supplemental income available to the people working those low wage jobs.

And all the while the money interests in government work to take those benefits away from those minimum wage workers,

in order that the taxes used to pay them can be lowered.

all together now----------click you heels, raise your right hand and scream HEIL HITLER!!!!

Do you know anything about the history of the world?

 

[occupied]

yeah, a govt check and a package of free cheese would have made him a much better person

No, he/she? said it as if it was something anyone could just do without even considering just how wrong it is that in the "land of opportunity" the road to economic security is that damned steep and fraught with peril all just so the CEOs and stockholders can keep more of their "hard earned" money.

bullshit, those evil CEOs are where they are because they worked harder and/or were smarter than their counterparts.

My first couple of years out of college I worked a day job and a night job. My hard work was rewarded and I am now retired with a very nice stable retirement income.

I would not have any of that if I relied on the govt to take care of me.

reall freedom includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail, everyone does not succeed---thats life----deal with it.

Bully for you, when was that? Sounds like it was quite a while ago. Things have slid a lot further towards ruin since then. As another poster pointed out, the purchasing power of minimum wage peaked in 1969. What you did is 10 times harder now that the job market sucks and people are inhabiting those entry level jobs for years rather than months as it should be.

 

[RightDown]

Unionize all labor. That will create a more level bargaining field for wages. There will be no need for a minimum wage.

The old saw of 'what's the dollar figure for the right minimum wage?" will die on the vine. As it should.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not the average person's fault if the power of money in one's government has been able to rig the economy in such a way as to put labor at such a tremendous disadvantage that millions must work fulltime at jobs that pay so little that the government, to the extent it can hold onto the power to do so, makes supplemental income available to the people working those low wage jobs.

And all the while the money interests in government work to take those benefits away from those minimum wage workers,

in order that the taxes used to pay them can be lowered.

all together now----------click you heels, raise your right hand and scream HEIL HITLER!!!!

Do you know anything about the history of the world?

Yes the history of the world is almost entirely a long story of man's inhumanity towards his fellow man.

 

[Redfish]

Unionize all labor. That will create a more level bargaining field for wages. There will be no need for a minimum wage.

The old saw of 'what's the dollar figure for the right minimum wage?" will die on the vine. As it should.

supply and demand should set the price of labor, tomatoes, cars, or filet mignon.

unions are the reason that there is longer a textile industry in the USA, no longer a commercial shipyard in the USA, no longer any TVs made in the USA. why steel mills are closing, why detroit is a cesspool, why govt workers are overpaid and inefficient.

unions are the cause, not the solution.

 

[deltex1]

all together now----------click you heels, raise your right hand and scream HEIL HITLER!!!!

Do you know anything about the history of the world?

Yes the history of the world is almost entirely a long story of man's inhumanity towards his fellow man.

That's because the whiners never stfu

 

[Redfish]

all together now----------click you heels, raise your right hand and scream HEIL HITLER!!!!

Do you know anything about the history of the world?

Yes the history of the world is almost entirely a long story of man's inhumanity towards his fellow man.

Yes, human nature is what it is. But the solution is not to punish success and reward failure. The solution is to give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed on his or her own merits and hard work.

the "pursuit of happiness" not the guarantee of happiness.

 

[RightDown]

Unionize all labor. That will create a more level bargaining field for wages. There will be no need for a minimum wage.

The old saw of 'what's the dollar figure for the right minimum wage?" will die on the vine. As it should.

supply and demand should set the price of labor, tomatoes, cars, or filet mignon.

unions are the reason that there is longer a textile industry in the USA, no longer a commercial shipyard in the USA, no longer any TVs made in the USA. why steel mills are closing, why detroit is a cesspool, why govt workers are overpaid and inefficient.

unions are the cause, not the solution.

Unions were the reason that we had a 40 hour work week, benefits, and a livable wage. The death of the industries you mention
are due to horrible mismanagement of the executive class. The very people you defend. Check the record for Detroit....the unions ALWAYS caved to management's demands.

Supply and demand is one component in the labor arrangement. Another is bargaining for the cost of that labor. Without unionization, bargaining is unfairly skewed to the monied elites. It can only be fixed by unionizing the workforce. There's strength in numbers.

As for gov. workers being inefficient, soc. Sec. is much more efficient than any private insurer in terms of cost.

 

[occupied]

Yes the history of the world is almost entirely a long story of man's inhumanity towards his fellow man.

Yes, human nature is what it is. But the solution is not to punish success and reward failure. The solution is to give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed on his or her own merits and hard work.

the "pursuit of happiness" not the guarantee of happiness.

Ah the good old meritocracy/social Darwinism argument. People do not have an equal opportunity to succeed, the people you fall all over yourself to defend have seen to that and will use all their considerable power to insure that scum like us never have the opportunity to join their ranks. It's the most exclusive club there is, we are not in it, we have no hope of joining it and I am astounded at this late date at the armies of conservative sycophants willing to throw themselves under the bus for them.

 

[Mac1958]

People do not have an equal opportunity to succeed, the people you fall all over yourself to defend have seen to that and will use all their considerable power to insure that scum like us never have the opportunity to join their ranks. It's the most exclusive club there is, we are not in it, we have no hope of joining it and I am astounded at this late date at the armies of conservative sycophants willing to throw themselves under the bus for them.

Sad to see how hopeless you feel.

Millions of people have succeeded against the fact that life isn't "fair" by simply putting forth the effort to do so.

The guy in the White House, for one.

You don't have to, of course, but I'll bet you're capable of it.

.

 

[OODA_Loop]

If all entry level jobs are hardly worth the expenses of child care and transportation there is no incentive to even get up and try to work have you considered that? Probably not.

I worked two jobs and went to school.

You say that like it was not an exhausting soul crushing experience.

Soul crushing ?

No wonder you're a victim.

 

[OODA_Loop]

If all entry level jobs are hardly worth the expenses of child care and transportation there is no incentive to even get up and try to work have you considered that? Probably not.

I worked two jobs and went to school.

And the minimum wage was higher when you did that than it is now.

It was $3.35

 

[Redfish]

Unionize all labor. That will create a more level bargaining field for wages. There will be no need for a minimum wage.

The old saw of 'what's the dollar figure for the right minimum wage?" will die on the vine. As it should.

supply and demand should set the price of labor, tomatoes, cars, or filet mignon.

unions are the reason that there is longer a textile industry in the USA, no longer a commercial shipyard in the USA, no longer any TVs made in the USA. why steel mills are closing, why detroit is a cesspool, why govt workers are overpaid and inefficient.

unions are the cause, not the solution.

Unions were the reason that we had a 40 hour work week, benefits, and a livable wage. The death of the industries you mention
are due to horrible mismanagement of the executive class. The very people you defend. Check the record for Detroit....the unions ALWAYS caved to management's demands.

Supply and demand is one component in the labor arrangement. Another is bargaining for the cost of that labor. Without unionization, bargaining is unfairly skewed to the monied elites. It can only be fixed by unionizing the workforce. There's strength in numbers.

As for gov. workers being inefficient, soc. Sec. is much more efficient than any private insurer in terms of cost.

In the 20s and 30s the unions did some good. but they got too powerful and destroyed the jobs they were claiming to protect.

If you think the UAW caved to management, then you are living in some parallel universe on the planet zenon.

remember "look for the union label" on your underwear? well, that same underwear now says made in Costa Rica because of the textile workers union. How has that helped the USA?

 

[Redfish]

Yes, human nature is what it is. But the solution is not to punish success and reward failure. The solution is to give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed on his or her own merits and hard work.

the "pursuit of happiness" not the guarantee of happiness.

Ah the good old meritocracy/social Darwinism argument. People do not have an equal opportunity to succeed, the people you fall all over yourself to defend have seen to that and will use all their considerable power to insure that scum like us never have the opportunity to join their ranks. It's the most exclusive club there is, we are not in it, we have no hope of joining it and I am astounded at this late date at the armies of conservative sycophants willing to throw themselves under the bus for them.

yes, you are a hopeless victim-----come sit on uncle obama's knee and let him kiss away your tears and fears.

people like you make me sick.

 

[Seawytch]

If all entry level jobs are hardly worth the expenses of child care and transportation there is no incentive to even get up and try to work have you considered that? Probably not.

I worked two jobs and went to school.

And the minimum wage was higher when you did that than it is now.

If the minimum wage kept up with inflation, it would be over 20 bucks an hour.

And then there's this. These fuckers haven't gotten smarter or worked harder...they just pay off Congressmen better.