BTC Miners are very undervalued

[The Banker]

Due to bearish sentiment BTC , and miners are very much undervalued. People forget that BTC is up a lot over the past 12 months, and BTC is a very high margin biz, it costs $6-8k per coin to mine.

My favorite miner is CLSK, but MARA is also good. if BTC stays at $30k CLSK will mine ~6000 coin in 2022, $180M, $144M in profit. CLSK also is an energy tech company with great revs and growth in their energy tech biz.
With a $460M market cap, thats a forward PE of 2.5, cheap AF. The company is growing revs at in the triple digits.

Even with BTC at $20k, they are still cheap based on 6,000 coin in 2022.

Finally, when China shut down BTC miners in their country that was a boon to Western miners. BTC mining is fixed for the year and divide amongst all the miners, when China closed down 40% of the worlds miners, that means the remaining 60% pick up that shut down capacity ! The miners will increase revs by 30-40%.

 

[The Banker]

Long term calls make a great way to play this, volatility is very low in these stocks, options are cheap.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Long term calls make a great way to play this, volatility is very low in these stocks, options are cheap.

I like to use 10% of my portfolio to wing it and see where it goes for fun. The rest never touched.

I got mostly losers...lol

Only one paid off when I bought 1000 dollars of bitcoin after year 1. Not a bad return

 

[frigidweirdo]

Due to bearish sentiment BTC , and miners are very much undervalued. People forget that BTC is up a lot over the past 12 months, and BTC is a very high margin biz, it costs $6-8k per coin to mine.

My favorite miner is CLSK, but MARA is also good. if BTC stays at $30k CLSK will mine ~6000 coin in 2022, $180M, $144M in profit. CLSK also is an energy tech company with great revs and growth in their energy tech biz.
With a $460M market cap, thats a forward PE of 2.5, cheap AF. The company is growing revs at in the triple digits.

Even with BTC at $20k, they are still cheap based on 6,000 coin in 2022.

Finally, when China shut down BTC miners in their country that was a boon to Western miners. BTC mining is fixed for the year and divide amongst all the miners, when China closed down 40% of the worlds miners, that means the remaining 60% pick up that shut down capacity ! The miners will increase revs by 30-40%.

It's a ponzi scheme.

 

[Synthaholic]

All bitcoin must be made illegal. Or at least the mining of it. It's destroying the climate and using vast amounts of energy.

 

[JohnDB]

I've never been a fan of Bitcoin or any of the digital currencies.

At one time Bitcoin was trading for over $60,000 per coin. Now it's at $30,000-something.
Those retailers others who accepts digital currencies are charging a 25% service fee for doing so. It's NOT legal tender... meaning no one has to accept it.
No one in America accepts Shekels from Israel to pay for debts either on a regular basis. I tried with the power company... nope.

It's been described as a boutique currency.
OK... anything "boutique" is an instant forfeiture of your man card.

But on a more serious note... Bitcoin is dependant on blockchain encryption...which is hackable and counterfeits are becoming more and more replicable. So the currency is not really safe from anything and not really good for anything.

And investment into digital currencies is an instant IRS audit. I don't know about you...but I like flying below our government's radar screen. Not that I do anything...but let's just not play with fire.

 

[The Banker]

All bitcoin must be made illegal. Or at least the mining of it. It's destroying the climate and using vast amounts of energy.

That's fake news.
CLSK mines BTC 95% carbon free. CLSK is also a green energy tech company.
Gold mining is substantially worse for the environment than BTC mining.
Data centers use more power than BTC miners and are not green at all.

 

[The Banker]

I've never been a fan of Bitcoin or any of the digital currencies.

At one time Bitcoin was trading for over $60,000 per coin. Now it's at $30,000-something.
Those retailers others who accepts digital currencies are charging a 25% service fee for doing so. It's NOT legal tender... meaning no one has to accept it.
No one in America accepts Shekels from Israel to pay for debts either on a regular basis. I tried with the power company... nope.

It's been described as a boutique currency.
OK... anything "boutique" is an instant forfeiture of your man card.

But on a more serious note... Bitcoin is dependant on blockchain encryption...which is hackable and counterfeits are becoming more and more replicable. So the currency is not really safe from anything and not really good for anything.

And investment into digital currencies is an instant IRS audit. I don't know about you...but I like flying below our government's radar screen. Not that I do anything...but let's just not play with fire.

Blockchain is not hackable, that is the whole point of blockchain, it can't be changed. If you think there are counterfeit BTC then I don't know what to tell you, that is the most illogical statement ever made.

Everyone is missing the point of this thread.

IMO, The key to making big money in markets is this finding asymmetric risk reward investments.

BTC miners are a heads I win big, tails I don't lose play.

Even if BTC drops more to $20K (which seems unlikely), but even if it does, CLSK will be ok based on Revenue and profits they will make with BTC at $20k.

BUT if BTC stays at $30k or goes back up to 50k, CLSK will go up a ton, 5x or more.

CLSK has a $460 M market cap, they should do at least $120M (could be $200+M) of profits in 2022, of not more. Look at the valuation metrics of that (S&P ave PE is 30).

 

[JohnDB]

That's fake news.
CLSK mines BTC 95% carbon free. CLSK is also a green energy tech company.
Gold mining is substantially worse for the environment than BTC mining.
Data centers use more power than BTC miners and are not green at all.

Agreed...
I think it's hilarious how those claiming that these mining operations are not green but using server farms that use tons more juice than a typical mining operation does....

And as someone who has wired them up...I do know.

 

[JohnDB]

Blockchain is not hackable, that is the whole point of blockchain, it can't be changed. If you think there are counterfeit BTC then I don't know what to tell you, that is the most illogical statement ever made.

Everyone is missing the point of this thread.

IMO, The key to making big money in markets is this finding asymmetric risk reward investments.

BTC miners are a heads I win big, tails I don't lose play.

Even if BTC drops more to $20K (which seems unlikely), but even if it does, CLSK will be ok based on Revenue and profits they will make with BTC at $20k.

BUT if BTC stays at $30k or goes back up to 50k, CLSK will go up a ton, 5x or more.

CLSK has a $460 M market cap, they should do at least $120M (could be $200+M) of profits in 2022, of not more. Look at the valuation metrics of that (S&P ave PE is 30).

Yes...it is hackable. It's not exactly common knowledge but it's been done.
Everyone thinks it's not hackable...that's just one problem.
The faster and easier computers get the more complicated the algorithms they can run through to hack through blockchain encryption.

Blockchain has a very limited window it's going to be sufficient for people to use...

For hackers it's a goalpost...an instant target to take down. And if they can do it, they will.

The ability to hack it is just two years old so it's not common yet. And the computing power needed isn't that common yet either...so it's got some time left before we need next generation encryption. But yes...I would not trust in it wholeheartedly.

 

[The Banker]

Yes...it is hackable. It's not exactly common knowledge but it's been done.
Everyone thinks it's not hackable...that's just one problem.
The faster and easier computers get the more complicated the algorithms they can run through to hack through blockchain encryption.

Blockchain has a very limited window it's going to be sufficient for people to use...

For hackers it's a goalpost...an instant target to take down. And if they can do it, they will.

The ability to hack it is just two years old so it's not common yet. And the computing power needed isn't that common yet either...so it's got some time left before we need next generation encryption. But yes...I would not trust in it wholeheartedly.

BTC network too big, any hacks would be for small money.
Either way it doesn't matter in the scope of investing in BTC miners and their extremely low valuations.

 

[JohnDB]

BTC network too big, any hacks would be for small money.
Either way it doesn't matter in the scope of investing in BTC miners and their extremely low valuations.

I understand the valuation...but this valuation does assume several things... like the continued favor of investors in digital currencies which are not legal tender... meaning that it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

The other thing about them is the wallet system used with them. A person may need three wallets but that's still a single point of failure with no insurance to protect yourself with.
I use many accounts and separate banking institutions to protect myself. I'm sure that the hackers who hacked the Colonial Pipeline thought that they were going to get away with it...but they tainted the Bitcoin...same as dye packs on stolen money. They haven't gotten away with it yet...they just think they have. That's how they got back the money. Those wallets are forever hackable.

I'm just cautious. And electronic currencies are just not something that I feel comfortable investing in. From 60,000 to now 30,000 and possibly 20,000. Yeah....just a bit shy about them.

Look at ALF....one day it's on its way up and then a few million shares are literally dumped instead of gradually sold and the stock lost half it's value in a matter of minutes.
Something similar, but not the same, happened with ASO by KKR through JP Morgan...it was climbing in price one day and a falling valuation through the primary investor the next.

 

[The Banker]

MARA !
MARA has a PE of like 6... just saying.
This is going up a lot and CLSK

 

[The Banker]

I understand the valuation...but this valuation does assume several things... like the continued favor of investors in digital currencies which are not legal tender... meaning that it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

The other thing about them is the wallet system used with them. A person may need three wallets but that's still a single point of failure with no insurance to protect yourself with.
I use many accounts and separate banking institutions to protect myself. I'm sure that the hackers who hacked the Colonial Pipeline thought that they were going to get away with it...but they tainted the Bitcoin...same as dye packs on stolen money. They haven't gotten away with it yet...they just think they have. That's how they got back the money. Those wallets are forever hackable.

I'm just cautious. And electronic currencies are just not something that I feel comfortable investing in. From 60,000 to now 30,000 and possibly 20,000. Yeah....just a bit shy about them.

Look at ALF....one day it's on its way up and then a few million shares are literally dumped instead of gradually sold and the stock lost half it's value in a matter of minutes.
Something similar, but not the same, happened with ASO by KKR through JP Morgan...it was climbing in price one day and a falling valuation through the primary investor the next.

I'm telling ya these BTC miners are going up a lot.

MARA is going to be a huge win. This is the key thing, MARA will be at 13 EH in about 9 months, that is like 100 BTC a day, ~$1.8B, with high margins so most of that is pure profit...
It's market cap is only like $4B. Gold miners PE are around 18, just do that math.

Crypto is on the cusp of taking off, big institutions are definitely starting to get interested and there is a lot going on here. Read the latest conference call from COIN.

I am very bullish on MARA.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm telling ya these BTC miners are going up a lot.

MARA is going to be a huge win. This is the key thing, MARA will be at 13 EH in about 9 months, that is like 100 BTC a day, ~$1.8B, with high margins so most of that is pure profit...
It's market cap is only like $4B. Gold miners PE are around 18, just do that math.

Crypto is on the cusp of taking off, big institutions are definitely starting to get interested and there is a lot going on here. Read the latest conference call from COIN.

I am very bullish on MARA.

There's always a fad on Wall Street... currently the fad is crypto coins.

But as it's use as a boutique currency wears off...it's going to tank horribly...it's not legal tender and most people who accept it charge substantial service fees for accepting it. When that part becomes widely understood...it's game over. Nevermind all the negatives for supporting criminal and terrorist organizations that come with it's use.

Miners are only profitable while the price is up... when it tanks...miners will find new uses for their rigs.

 

[The Banker]

There's always a fad on Wall Street... currently the fad is crypto coins.

But as it's use as a boutique currency wears off...it's going to tank horribly...it's not legal tender and most people who accept it charge substantial service fees for accepting it. When that part becomes widely understood...it's game over. Nevermind all the negatives for supporting criminal and terrorist organizations that come with it's use.

Miners are only profitable while the price is up... when it tanks...miners will find new uses for their rigs.

Sorry but everything you said is wrong.

We shall just see I guess.
I would just say clearly you haven't done your HW on crypto though. The key to investing and especially investing in tech is to understand the trends in tech. If you did that you would see what is going on here.

Good luck !

 

[JohnDB]

Sorry but everything you said is wrong.

We shall just see I guess.
I would just say clearly you haven't done your HW on crypto though. The key to investing and especially investing in tech is to understand the trends in tech. If you did that you would see what is going on here.

Good luck !

I've never done very well in tech...

I understand the weather, forex, and commodities (but not all commodities...just softs and particularly coffee)

You might be right in seeing a trend...but I just have serious reservations about crypto currency.