Bryan Fischer: "No More Mosques, Period"

[strollingbones]

looking about for cannanites....o nevermind.....they are dead..slain to every man woman or child...

but that is in the bible so lets not address that

 

[chanel]

Ah - the "stupid label" Sooo predictable. I am speaking about agnostic Muslims. And I admit that I do not know if there are many and if they are respected by other Muslims. In most other religions that I am familiar with agnostics are quite common. There are many people who check "RC" or "Jewish" who do not go to church.

 

[NYcarbineer]

only if we talk about irish protestant terrorism in the 20th century

I'm guessing that chanel won't have anything intelligent to say about either. If she says anything at all.

I predict a sudden case of thread flight.

No thread flight. I am not debating the IRA or the crusades or even whackos that kill abortion doctors. I asked how many MASS MURDERS have been committed in the name of radical Christianity in modern America. Perhaps I should be more specific. How about in the last 20 years in the city of NY? Tens of thousands of Irish there.

.

Funny you would claim that, after saying this:

Really? How many MURDERS have been done in the name of Christianity? I'll give you Tiller. That's one.

So you were NOT talking about mass murders and not talking about abortion doctors, and yet you brought up Tiller - that was NOT a mass murder and DID involve an abortion doctor...

...at this time I feel it has become appropriate to ask the following -

Do you have ANY idea of what the hell you're talking about? Because if you do, you are doing one masterful job of disguising that fact.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

looking about for cannanites....o nevermind.....they are dead..slain to every man woman or child...

but that is in the bible so lets not address that

Was that an open ended commandment?

These are

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do

2:193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

 

[goldcatt]

Islam calls for gang members to lay in wait and ambush non members .
I believe it will require a separate trial.

Back up here. Since you're attacking speech first, I'll help you out here. What are the elements of the Brandenburg test for removing "dangerous" or "inciting" speech from First Amendment protection?

There's a link in one of my posts on the previous page, if you need a refresher.

Im not attacking free speech.
Im saying the organization is a criminal enterprise.
1430 years and 80 million plus dead bodies are a testament .

"Criminal Enterprise" is a term of art with a specific meaning. You said you have evidence to prove this AND the fact that Islam should be removed from First Amendment protections. You listed speech your source stated is contained in Islam's founding documents as your first piece of evidence. Now show us how it relates.

I'm trying to walk you through how to do that.

If this speech does not meet the test in Brandenburg, it is not a crime nor can it lose First Amendment protection. It's that simple.

What else have you got?

 

[NYcarbineer]

looking about for cannanites....o nevermind.....they are dead..slain to every man woman or child...

but that is in the bible so lets not address that

That was in God's instructions to the Israelites, correct? Genocide to clear out the promised land.

I'm sure Mr. Fitnah is opposed to synagogues being built too.

 

[bodecea]

Murder, death and the over throw of Democratic principles. Islam teaches that ONLY Islam should be allowed as the religion and the Government. It teaches that it is acceptable to murder unbelievers. That it is acceptable to lie to unbelievers to gain a foothold.

So is your argument that the First shouldn't apply to them in general?

If so, what behavior removes them from its protection? And how do you get around the 5th and the takings issue in regards to their property rights?

Already explained it. Islam demands it followers work to eradicate by force if needed all other religions. That murder is acceptable to enforce Islamic views and faith. It teaches that while weaker then other religions the Muslim may lie to work to gain a position of power from which to operate.

The "religion" teaches that murder is acceptable, that slavery is acceptable, that only Islam is acceptable. The goal of the religion is the world wide wipe out of all other religions and that every person must eventually be a Muslim. And that to obtain this goal Muslims may use and murder non Muslims to gain this desired result.

Islam is opposed to democracy as well. Only Islam is allowed as the Government. Islamic law and Islamic clergy as the Heads of Government.

There's a billion of them...how come they haven't taken over yet?

 

[chanel]

I'm guessing that chanel won't have anything intelligent to say about either. If she says anything at all.

I predict a sudden case of thread flight.

No thread flight. I am not debating the IRA or the crusades or even whackos that kill abortion doctors. I asked how many MASS MURDERS have been committed in the name of radical Christianity in modern America. Perhaps I should be more specific. How about in the last 20 years in the city of NY? Tens of thousands of Irish there.

.

Funny you would claim that, after saying this:

Really? How many MURDERS have been done in the name of Christianity? I'll give you Tiller. That's one.

So you were NOT talking about mass murders and not talking about abortion doctors, and yet you brought up Tiller - that was NOT a mass murder and DID involve an abortion doctor...

...at this time I feel it has become appropriate to ask the following -

Do you have ANY idea of what the hell you're talking about? Because if you do, you are doing one masterful job of disguising that fact.

The Tiller killer and McVeigh are always brought up by the spin doctors. Just offering a handicap. I could have brought up this guy:

Father who threw baby from bridge 'devout Muslim'
Reportedly drove to Jersey mosque, consulted imam immediately after abducting daughter

Father who threw baby from bridge 'devout Muslim'

but that would be dishonest. I don't think his religion had anything to do with the murder. See how that works?

Just to clarify: Radical Islam in the U.S. - terrorism - not murder, k?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Back up here. Since you're attacking speech first, I'll help you out here. What are the elements of the Brandenburg test for removing "dangerous" or "inciting" speech from First Amendment protection?

There's a link in one of my posts on the previous page, if you need a refresher.

Im not attacking free speech.
Im saying the organization is a criminal enterprise.
1430 years and 80 million plus dead bodies are a testament .

"Criminal Enterprise" is a term of art with a specific meaning. You said you have evidence to prove this AND the fact that Islam should be removed from First Amendment protections. You listed speech your source stated is contained in Islam's founding documents as your first piece of evidence. Now show us how it relates.

I'm trying to walk you through how to do that.

If this speech does not meet the test in Brandenburg, it is not a crime nor can it lose First Amendment protection. It's that simple.

What else have you got?

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If they had the same evidence against the Hells angels they would have had a conviction.

 

[goldcatt]

Im not attacking free speech.
Im saying the organization is a criminal enterprise.
1430 years and 80 million plus dead bodies are a testament .

"Criminal Enterprise" is a term of art with a specific meaning. You said you have evidence to prove this AND the fact that Islam should be removed from First Amendment protections. You listed speech your source stated is contained in Islam's founding documents as your first piece of evidence. Now show us how it relates.

I'm trying to walk you through how to do that.

If this speech does not meet the test in Brandenburg, it is not a crime nor can it lose First Amendment protection. It's that simple.

What else have you got?

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If they had the same evidence against the Hells angels they would have had a conviction.

All right, you want to go RICO we'll go RICO. You know criminal statutes are the harder way to go though, because you need proof of individual conduct or conspiracy.

No matter. What are the elements of the crime, what is your evidence of conduct relating to those elements, and what is your rationale for including the entire religion and its adherents?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Criminal Enterprise" is a term of art with a specific meaning. You said you have evidence to prove this AND the fact that Islam should be removed from First Amendment protections. You listed speech your source stated is contained in Islam's founding documents as your first piece of evidence. Now show us how it relates.

I'm trying to walk you through how to do that.

If this speech does not meet the test in Brandenburg, it is not a crime nor can it lose First Amendment protection. It's that simple.

What else have you got?

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If they had the same evidence against the Hells angels they would have had a conviction.

All right, you want to go RICO we'll go RICO. You know criminal statutes are the harder way to go though, because you need proof of individual conduct or conspiracy.

No matter. What are the elements of the crime, what is your evidence of conduct relating to those elements, and what is your rationale for including the entire religion and its adherents?

Scotus reserves the definition of a religion as a set of beliefs for members.

Islam has laws for non members putting it outside of the normal definition of religion.

9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers


8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do

2:193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)


I see a massive civil rights violation in these kind of statements .

The essential elements

 

[goldcatt]

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If they had the same evidence against the Hells angels they would have had a conviction.

All right, you want to go RICO we'll go RICO. You know criminal statutes are the harder way to go though, because you need proof of individual conduct or conspiracy.

No matter. What are the elements of the crime, what is your evidence of conduct relating to those elements, and what is your rationale for including the entire religion and its adherents?

Scotus reserves the definition of a religion as a set of beliefs for members.

Islam has laws for non members putting it outside of the normal definition of religion.

9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers


8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do

2:193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)


I see a massive civil rights violation in these kind of statements .

The essential elements

All right, two problems here.

First, this has nothing to do with RICO.

Second, you glossed over something very important there.

What is that definition of "Religion" under the law? I mean, I can go out and start the Church of the Holy Meatball so long as I meet that definition and my religion will be protected the same as any other.

I'll give you a hint: It's not based on beliefs or teachings.

Want a link?

 

[uscitizen]

Why was not the catholic church prosecuted under RICO for child abuse and covering it up?

 

[DiveCon]

Why was not the catholic church prosecuted under RICO for child abuse and covering it up?

they should have been
what they did was reprehensible

 

[bodecea]

That's a copout Fitnah.

What are the specific instances of conduct that would classify Islam as a crime syndicate in 21st Century America, thereby removing the entire religion and its adherents from First Amendment protections under 21st Century American law?

The calls for murder and violence and theft in the founding documents suffice in putting Islam outside the bounds of civil society.

Then, using that criteria, the calls for murder and violence and theft in the founding documents of Judaism and Christianity would suffice in putting them outside the bounds of civil society.

 

[Tank]

What are you libs trying to prove, we already know what a third world country looks like, why would you want to turn America into one?

Knock it off.

 

[Kalam]

If you've got evidence, lay out your case. I'd love to see it.

careful.. mr ***** gets AWFULLY grumpy when you ask him to post evidence beyond laughable assertions.


Seriously, this is the kind of guy who would insist that he was probed by aliens when asked why his butt hurts after an action packed friday night down at the Manhole.

Meh, I get along all right with Mr. F. It's politics, it ain't personal.

It's still put up or shut up time though.

Would you have palled around with supporters of the Third Reich?

 

[DiveCon]

careful.. mr ***** gets AWFULLY grumpy when you ask him to post evidence beyond laughable assertions.


Seriously, this is the kind of guy who would insist that he was probed by aliens when asked why his butt hurts after an action packed friday night down at the Manhole.

Meh, I get along all right with Mr. F. It's politics, it ain't personal.

It's still put up or shut up time though.

Would you have palled around with supporters of the Third Reich?

you mean like THIS guy?

 

[Kalam]

Meh, I get along all right with Mr. F. It's politics, it ain't personal.

It's still put up or shut up time though.

Would you have palled around with supporters of the Third Reich?

you mean like THIS guy?

Yes. Apostate assholes like that don't speak for me.

 

[bodecea]

Would you have palled around with supporters of the Third Reich?

you mean like THIS guy?

Yes. Apostate assholes like that don't speak for me.

But it was an example of Christians and Muslims pulling together for a common goal, wasn't it?