Brexit Dividend - Sunaks Northern Ireland deal on hold as opposition mounts

[Tommy Tainant]

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-25/brexit-deal-talks-continue-as-eu-leaders-visit-cancelled

He is in a real fix here.
He has a deal agreed that would satisfy most reasonable people. But there arent any in the brexit wing of the tory party or the terrorists in the DUP..

It was supposed to be announced this week but he chickened out of it. The EU chiefs were due in London today but that has been cancelled as well.

He can get his deal through parliament with Labour support but that would mean political suicide for him.

Sorting out the Johnson mess was supposed to be a big win for him. But it is hard to see any happy ending to this tory debacle.

And an off duty policeman was shot by terrorists this week as he was taking football training in Omagh.

 

[Grumblenuts]

What sort of "terrorists"? IRA?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

What sort of "terrorists"? IRA?

Apparently its the"New IRA". People who never accepted the peace deal. There arent many of them but they have guns and a gripe.

If Sunak bends over too far to appease the DUP then we will see them more and more.

 

[zaangalewa]

... "New IRA" ...

Is this a real organisation or only a myth-based saying?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Is this a real organisation or only a myth-based saying?

They are real enough. There are several splinter groups and they are one of them.

They dont have the wide support of the old IRA because most people want peace.

However the brexit negotiations are seemingly being done to appease the protestant parties. That is a recipe for disaster.

A key issue is the influence of the European Court of Justice in Northern Ireland. That was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement.

The DUP want rid of this. Sunak, apparently has negotiated a series of tribunals to sit beneath the ECJ which would limit its input.

Its a compromise that seems reasonable. Crucially it protects the GFA. But its not to the taste of the DUP., or the brexit headbangers in Sunaks party.

And that is the crux of his problem. As I say he could force it through with opposition support. But that would kill his leadership.

A further complication is that Johnson is using this as cover for his bid to regain the leadership.

 

[Dekster]

The long and short of it is there is going to have to be a hard border, the Good Friday arrangements revisited, or NI set free from the UK completely. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The long and short of it is there is going to have to be a hard border, the Good Friday arrangements revisited, or NI set free from the UK completely. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

All of those look unlikely today but you never know.
A problem in this is that Sunak is a weak leader, he cant command his own party. Perhaps a stronger leader could crack some heads together.
Reversing brexit would sort out every issue.

 

[Dekster]

All of those look unlikely today but you never know.
A problem in this is that Sunak is a weak leader, he cant command his own party. Perhaps a stronger leader could crack some heads together.
Reversing brexit would sort out every issue.

Of course they are unlikely which is just another round of can kicking. If I had a magic wand, I would just wave it, reunite Ireland and be done with it. Screw the unionist. Let them move, die, or assimilate. That whole "unique special relationship" thing is going to always be a source of trouble.

Of course Sunak is weak. He is the runner up in an ugly contest who got the crown because the winner quit off the start line. This is going to be the new norm for British politics for a generation though. Labour has devolved into a white collar university educated party that thinks they are better than everybody else by virtue of just having a pulse and a land rover, and the lib dems aren't coercive enough to draw in significant numbers of socialists and too socialist to draw in the masses. the conservative represent the anybody but one of the others voters. I mean what harm is there in voting for the conservatives when you know they are going to shoot themselves in the foot three times a year?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Of course they are unlikely which is just another round of can kicking. If I had a magic wand, I would just wave it, reunite Ireland and be done with it. Screw the unionist. Let them move, die, or assimilate. That whole "unique special relationship" thing is going to always be a source of trouble.

Of course Sunak is weak. He is the runner up in an ugly contest who got the crown because the winner quit off the start line. This is going to be the new norm for British politics for a generation though. Labour has devolved into a white collar university educated party that thinks they are better than everybody else by virtue of just having a pulse and a land rover, and the lib dems aren't coercive enough to draw in significant numbers of socialists and too socialist to draw in the masses. the conservative represent the anybody but one of the others voters. I mean what harm is there in voting for the conservatives when you know they are going to shoot themselves in the foot three times a year?

I would prefer a united Irelandbut the Unionists have a case. They are generally narrow minded idiots and their leaders are the worst of them.

But they have a case, hey were lied to by Johnson.As it stands the catholics are outbreeding them and they are losing traction. this veto they are holdingis thee only power they have.

Brexit is a self inflicted wound inflicted on us by stupid people..And here we are.

 

[Dekster]

I would prefer a united Irelandbut the Unionists have a case. They are generally narrow minded idiots and their leaders are the worst of them.

But they have a case, hey were lied to by Johnson.As it stands the catholics are outbreeding them and they are losing traction. this veto they are holdingis thee only power they have.

Brexit is a self inflicted wound inflicted on us by stupid people..And here we are.

Brexit Brexit Brexit. The UK's economy has been contracting for decades. GDP fell when it entered the common market, while it was in the common market, and continues to decline since Brexit. It wasn't recovering after the 2008 recession which is why people rolled the dice with Brexit. At least trying to do something different was better than to continue to stagnate slowly. Legalize drugs and prostitution, learn to drive on the right side of the road. Try something, anything. Better to go down swinging than wither to death on the vine. Right now the UK is just a better dressed version of Cuba and it isn't because of Brexit. The government controls too much of your day to day lives from the third of the population getting universal credit to the most of your population who could be carted off to jail for mean tweets.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Yet another thread by a one-legged British ******, complaining that his own nation is incapable of governing itself, and therefore needs an unaccountable outside foreign power to govern it; and tying this complaint to some unrelated issue that he blames on his own nation's incapacity for self-government.

Just like about three or four dozen almost-identical threads that this same one-legged British ****** has heretofore started.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-25/brexit-deal-talks-continue-as-eu-leaders-visit-cancelled

He is in a real fix here.
He has a deal agreed that would satisfy most reasonable people. But there arent any in the brexit wing of the tory party or the terrorists in the DUP..
It was supposed to be announced this week but he chickened out of it. The EU chiefs were due in London today but that has been cancelled as well.
He can get his deal through parliament with Labour support but that would mean political suicide for him.
Sorting out the Johnson mess was supposed to be a big win for him. But it is hard to see any happy ending to this tory debacle.
And an off duty policeman was shot by terrorists this week as he was taking football training in Omagh.

 

[zaangalewa]

They are real enough.

Strange.

There are several splinter groups and they are one of them.

Hmmm. ...

They dont have the wide support of the old IRA because most people want peace.

A real freedom figther will also defend the own people who do not share the own opinions and will not support criminals - that's why I ask. We have here a group
of people who call themeselves "Reichsbürger" (=citizens of the empire) and I always thought this is only a nice joke. When for example someone is not able to pay the own debts and needs some time to get more money to do so then it makes sense first to let find out whether someone is really a citizen of the federal republic of Germany who denies to be such a citizen. I awoke when suddenly one of this "citizens of the empire" (I still have to smile about this funny title) shot down a policeman. By the way: The man who did do so had been a former "Mr. Germany" - vanity is indeed a very underestimated psychological structure. See also Anders Behring Breivick or men like Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin. Meanwhile we found out that a group of peope in the highest ranks of our society planed to eliminate the democracy in Germany. They had very detailed plans. This is not worrying - but an interesting symptom.

However the brexit negotiations are seemingly being done to appease the protestant parties. That is a recipe for disaster.

The intellectual quality of this decsion had been from my point of view the same quality as to throw a coin. I would never make any decision in a 50:50 case. And only if I would be forced really to have to do so then I would throw a coin.

A key issue is the influence of the European Court of Justice in Northern Ireland. That was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement.

I never was happy with this court. I do often not understand their decisions. I hope in this case it had been a good decision.

The DUP

DUP ... Democratic Unioinits Party ... I'm a democrat - I am for unions and federations ... but eeek! - I'm a Catholic! They will hate me! I'm married with a protestant - they will hate us much more. The best is we will leave Northern Ireland and live in Germany when all Germans will have learned to speak Irish or Birish (=Bavarian).

want rid of this. Sunak, apparently has negotiated a series of tribunals to sit beneath the ECJ which would limit its input.

Mr. Sunak - the British Prime minister - did do what? "hat offenbar eine Reihe von Gerichten ausgehandelt, die unterhalb des EuGH angesiedelt werden sollen und dessen Einfluss begrenzen würden." ... One moment. ... GB is not any member of the European Union. Who shall get a right to break European laws and what has this to do with decisions of the government of GB?

Its a compromise that seems reasonable.

Which compromise between who and who?

Crucially it protects the GFA.

I guess the GFA is not the "Gemeinsames Unternehmen für kommunale Abfallwirtschaft" or one of the other dozends of organisations worldwide who use this 3 letters. What is it?

But its not to the taste of the DUP., or the brexit headbangers in Sunaks party.

And that is the crux of his problem.

GB is unfortunatelly not any longer a member of the EU. The Brexit should be no theme any longer.

As I say he could force it through with opposition support.

I do cnot see what GB could force through where and why in context with European laws.

But that would kill his leadership.

You are heating meanwhile Prime ministers like others heat coal in a hot winter. I hear most Brits are conv inced Norther Irelanbd wil be one day a part of the island Ireland - also politically. So why not to go steps into this direction? The hundreds of years of heavy wounds in Ireland have to heal.

A further complication is that Johnson is using this as cover for his bid to regain the leadership.

This made me laugh now. When the dream team Boris Johnson and Donald Trump will come back then ... then ... hmmm ... something will happen - whatever it will be. Perhaps they will inflate the ball Earth to the size of Jupiter.

 

[zaangalewa]

Tommy Tainant

PS: I fear it is a very very long way in the thoughts to accept the way of reality from British empire, United Kingdom, Great Britain to Little Britain for the inhabitants of British Micronesia.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Brexit Brexit Brexit. The UK's economy has been contracting for decades. GDP fell when it entered the common market, while it was in the common market, and continues to decline since Brexit. It wasn't recovering after the 2008 recession which is why people rolled the dice with Brexit. At least trying to do something different was better than to continue to stagnate slowly. Legalize drugs and prostitution, learn to drive on the right side of the road. Try something, anything. Better to go down swinging than wither to death on the vine. Right now the UK is just a better dressed version of Cuba and it isn't because of Brexit. The government controls too much of your day to day lives from the third of the population getting universal credit to the most of your population who could be carted off to jail for mean tweets.

Divorcing yourself from your biggest market is not a sound move for any country. The Northern Ireland issue is a by product of that disaster... Its just bad news all around.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Yet another thread by a one-legged British ******, complaining that his own nation is incapable of governing itself, and therefore needs an unaccountable outside foreign power to govern it; and tying this complaint to some unrelated issue that he blames on his own nation's incapacity for self-government.

Just like about three or four dozen almost-identical threads that this same one-legged British ****** has heretofore started.

​

Bob its clear that you dont understand the problems that brexit has caused in Northern Ireland..
I grant you that it can seem to be complicated but it really isnt.I would suggest that you do a little research on the subject before venting.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Strange.



Hmmm. ...




A real freedom figther will also defend the own people who do not share the own opinions and will not support criminals - that's why I ask. We have here a group
of people who call themeselves "Reichsbürger" (=citizens of the empire) and I always thought this is only a nice joke. When for example someone is not able to pay the own debts and needs some time to get more money to do so then it makes sense first to let find out whether someone is really a citizen of the federal republic of Germany who denies to be such a citizen. I awoke when suddenly one of this "citizens of the empire" (I still have to smile about this funny title) shot down a policeman. By the way: The man who did do so had been a former "Mr. Germany" - vanity is indeed a very underestimated psychological structure. See also Anders Behring Breivick or men like Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin. Meanwhile we found out that a group of peope in the highest ranks of our society planed to eliminate the democracy in Germany. They had very detailed plans. This is not worrying - but an interesting symptom.



The intellectual quality of this decsion had been from my point of view the same quality as to throw a coin. I would never make any decision in a 50:50 case. And only if I would be forced really to have to do so then I would throw a coin.



I never was happy with this court. I do often not understand their decisions. I hope in this case it had been a good decision.



DUP ... Democratic Unioinits Party ... I'm a democrat - I am for unions and federations ... but eeek! - I'm a Catholic! They will hate me! I'm married with a protestant - they will hate us much more. The best is we will leave Northern Ireland and live in Germany when all Germans will have learned to speak Irish or Birish (=Bavarian).




Mr. Sunak - the British Prime minister - did do what? "hat offenbar eine Reihe von Gerichten ausgehandelt, die unterhalb des EuGH angesiedelt werden sollen und dessen Einfluss begrenzen würden." ... One moment. ... GB is not any member of the European Union. Who shall get a right to break European laws and what has this to do with decisions of the government of GB?



Which compromise between who and who?



I guess the GFA is not the "Gemeinsames Unternehmen für kommunale Abfallwirtschaft" or one of the other dozends of organisations worldwide who use this 3 letters. What is it?



GB is unfortunatelly not any longer a member of the EU. The Brexit should be no theme any longer.



I do cnot see what GB could force through where and why in context with European laws.



You are heating meanwhile Prime ministers like others heat coal in a hot winter. I hear most Brits are conv inced Norther Irelanbd wil be one day a part of the island Ireland - also politically. So why not to go steps into this direction? The hundreds of years of heavy wounds in Ireland have to heal.



This made me laugh now. When the dream team Boris Johnson and Donald Trump will come back then ... then ... hmmm ... something will happen - whatever it will be. Perhaps they will inflate the ball Earth to the size of Jupiter.

Your view on the ECJ is irrelevant.So is mine for that matter. Its role was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement which brought peace to the province.
It may have seemed non controversial at the time because we were in the EU..
I think thatt if you ask the catholic community they would have more faith in it than in the british courts.

To dispense with it now is a breach of the treaty.

Another reson we should not have been offered brexit.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Tommy Tainant

PS: I fear it is a very very long way in the thoughts to accept the way of reality from British empire, United Kingdom, Great Britain to Little Britain for the inhabitants of British Micronesia.

You are correct. Many of the brexiteers thought they would be renewing the empire.
Mainly because they are stupid.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Rishi Sunak must not flinch from a vital fight with the Tory Brextremists | Andrew Rawnsley

The prime minister has to press ahead with a deal on the Northern Ireland protocol, which would remove a festering sore in the UK’s relations with both the EU and the US

www.theguardian.com

A concise summing up.

 

[Dekster]

Divorcing yourself from your biggest market is not a sound move for any country. The Northern Ireland issue is a by product of that disaster... Its just bad news all around.

Economies evolve, or at least they should. The UK's hasn't. They are not particularly unique though. Trump tried to next-level that Neo-mercantile impulse even here in America. He clearly didn't think China was going to go toe to toe and blow to blow with him the way they did.

 

[zaangalewa]

Your view on the ECJ is irrelevant. ...

Okay.