BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME...

[Shusha]

Did you want customary law as well?

I could suggest Kashmir, Vietnam, Algeria. Namibia, Western Sahara. Aland Islands.

 

[Shusha]

Also Kosovo and .... Palestine

 

[Shusha]

Did you want me to go on? Or are we good?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

 

[Shusha]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

 

[Shusha]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

 

[Shusha]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

If an international humanitarian law doesn't specifically mention all of the peoples it applies to, does that mean it doesn't apply to those not mentioned?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

 

[Hollie]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

Indeed, the invading muhammedans and their Islamist colonial project - not so much.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

Indeed, the invading muhammedans and their Islamist colonial project - not so much.

I have actual legal documented citizenship.

What do you have?

 

[Slyhunter]

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

Indeed, the invading muhammedans and their Islamist colonial project - not so much.

I have actual legal documented citizenship.

What do you have?

I have God giving land to the Israelites thousands of years ago.

 

[Shusha]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

So you either believe that people who have been successfully removed from their ancestral lands have no rights to self-determination.

OR

You believe that the Jewish people specifically have no rights to self-determination.

Which is is?

 

[Shusha]

Quote passages mentioning Israelis or Jews.

Right. So you agree that self-determination is a right in international law. You just don't think it should apply to Jews.

How, exactly, is that NOT antisemitic?

Israel violates Palestinian rights big time.

Where is your outrage?

Doesn't answer my question. Do you or do you not believe that peoples have the right to self-determination. I do. Do you?

The people of the place have the right to self determination.

The people from someplace else, not so much.

Are you going to add your voice to theose who believe that the Jewish people did not originate in ancient Israel, Jude's and Samaria?

Or do you acknowledge that the Jewish people did originate there?

If the former, your just arguing silliness in your fervor to deny rights to the Jewish people, in contradiction to obvious reality.

If the latter then the Jewish people are from the place and you have contradicted your own argument.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME
※→ Shusha, et al,

It is probably a century too late to base any claim of sovereignty on ancient points of origin. While it is true, it has not been a foundational consideration since the San Remo accords (1920).

The QUESTION should be on the context of reality today.

• In relationship to the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine:

√ Who holds sovereignty over what portion of that territory?

⇒ Obviously the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
25 May 1946 --- Independence from League of Nations mandate under British administration
- Treaty of Alliance between the UK and Jordan -
Article I, His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State ad His Highness The Amir the Sovereign thereof.
⇒ Obviously the Jewish State of Israel.
Independence Day, 14 May (1948); Right of self-Determination - Israel declared independence on 14 May 1948,
Border countries: Egypt 266 km, Gaza Strip 51 km, Jordan 238 km, Lebanon 79 km, Syria 76 km,
- Jordan's DISENGAGEMENT FROM THE WEST BANK -
Finally, on July 31(1988) King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.
- ISRAEL-JORDAN PEACE TREATY (1994) -
Article 3(2) International Boundaries: The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognised international boundary between Israel and Jordan, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
- PEACE TREATY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT - (1995)
Article II The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.
- THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN INTERIM AGREEMENT ON THE WEST BANK AND THE GAZA STRIP Annex III - (1995)
ARTICLE IV - Special Provisions concerning Area C
Article 4(4) The transfer of powers and responsibilities in Area C shall not affect Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred.
​

The State of Palestine, formerly under the administration of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, is in no stable condition to be a government over any sovereign territory. The issue is made clear and stated by the League of Arab States (LAS) | 28 October 1974 | Rabat, Morocco, Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine → "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated." SO! Boiled-down --- we must ask:

• What territories were liberated by the PLO?
⇒ None
• What territories does the PLO have total control
⇒ Area "A" and possibly some portion of Jerusalem.

The relationship between the PLO and HAMAS in the Gaza Strip is tenuous at best. HAMAS performs as the government in place.

∑ This is important because it tell us about the nature of any sovereign claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

ROCCO! You're back! Ah, I missed you!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Finally, on July 31(1988) King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.

The West Bank Was occupied Palestinian territory. Jordan attempted to annex the territory but it is illegal to annex occupied territory so that was not valid.

In 1988 Jordan formally released the West Bank even though it had been occupied by Israel since 1967. It is still Palestine. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

BTW, I missed you. I thought Israel fired you.

 

[P F Tinmore]

- ISRAEL-JORDAN PEACE TREATY (1994) -
Article 3(2) International Boundaries: The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognised international boundary between Israel and Jordan, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.

Where did Israel get the authority to claim a border on Palestinian land?

 

[Hollie]

Finally, on July 31(1988) King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.

The West Bank Was occupied Palestinian territory. Jordan attempted to annex the territory but it is illegal to annex occupied territory so that was not valid.

In 1988 Jordan formally released the West Bank even though it had been occupied by Israel since 1967. It is still Palestine. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

BTW, I missed you. I thought Israel fired you.

"A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied."

Umm, you're suffering another of your "episodes".

Your invented "country of Pally'land" was never any such thing. It exists only in some lurid fantasy you maintain.

No matter how much the clerics at your madrassah pay you, it's not enough.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is important because it tell us about the nature of any sovereign claim.

The right to sovereignty belongs to the Palestinian people. (As stated in subsequent UN resolutions.) States and governments are not required. They are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.

Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty.