BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[Care4all]

More Lost Emails: FEC Destroyed Hard Drive of Ex-Lerner Employee

News Max ^

In addition to the destruction of former IRS official Lois Lerner's computer hard drive, the Federal Election Commission recycled the hard drive of one of her former employees, adding to the list of emails that have gone missing in relation to the IRS's targeting of conservative groups. In a letter to the FEC, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa and committee member Jim Jordan blasted the destruction of FEC attorney April Sands' hard drive, saying it has hindered the investigation. "The FEC's failure to retain Ms. Sands' hard drive prevented the FEC Office of Inspector General from...

Does the FEC destroy all hard drives the way they destroyed this one? Is this in their procedures and every day practice or is this something they did to the hard drives of only those involved in this scandal?

It makes a difference, ya know?

 

[The Rabbi]

so where are all the Republican lawmakers who should be backing Issa over this, like the Republican lawmakers backed Boehner when he was fighting Healthcare ?

Which Republicans have criticized Issa?

 

[depotoo]

Follow who benefits the most Rabbi, and Republican Party Members of Old, benefit the MOST by wiping out their inner competition with Tea Party Members.... That's just as logical as your side's accusations that Obama ordered this....isn't it? And yes, that letter from Camp COULD more than likely be to help Rove and his big donors from being found out....and being taxed for their supposed "gifts"....

7 Republican group apps were audited
100 and something Tea Party apps were questioned
6 Democratic group applications were audited

Looks like "favoritism" was given to both the Democratic party and the Republican Party members of old.

And then you claim a letter sent to Schulman of the IRS, the Republican Appointed Head of the Irs division, from Camp 10 days prior to the hard drive crash, was the reason for her crash, and that Camp's letter was about focusing on conservative groups, which is FALSE and it does not state that at all in the letter.....when Irs knew in early May of the request for more information of the Gift Tax, so a month or 2 beforehand, not 10 days, also failing to account that Schulmer did not even talk to Learner about this situation until the very end of June, which is DOCUMENTED.

The letter that supposedly led to the crash of Lois Lerner?s hard drive - The Washington Post

There is a lot of liberty being taken in all of these accusations, when what we need is actual facts....

or at least circumstantial evidence to support your speculation....

Like:

Did the hard drives that crashed, all crash at once? Did they crash separately? Were there any other hard drive crashes involved with people of no interest to this investigation at the same time? How many hard drives have crashed at the Irs over the last 5 years? Was this time period of the Learner hard drive crash/crashes an unusual period, with more crashes than usual? What percentage, are these 7 hard drive crashes of suspicion, of the total irs hard drive crashes? What was the common practice of Irs employees, for saving emails, and how did that differ from regulations? Was it learner and these other 7 crashed computers of interest users, the only people at the IRS that did not make hard paper copies of their emails? Or was this normal practice by all at the IRS, and if so, why? Did it follow protocol? Is there any possibility of this information being stored on a server somewhere? Is there a way to trace who may have intentionally crashed a hard drive...what would it take for 7 people being able to do this on their own? Is this even a case where 7 individuals could crash their own hard drives individually? Or did all of these hard drives somehow get hit all at once with a crash?

A lot of the answers to the questions above, could help in discerning what really happened.

And what about the communication on the other end? Who got these phantom emails? Can information be gotten from these other computers? I heard over 750 of these supposed emails missing were recovered from other employee's that were copied....?

We do need answers, but the right questions are not being asked imo....

And then we have the whole issue of whether this money donated by these super super rich donors, should be tax deductible gifts or not...the law implies NOT, but the Camp letter is telling IRS, the law and regulations should be IGNORED, because it was never paid attention to in the past, and the IRS dropped their audits on these 5....

NOW HOW IS THAT NOT ILLEGAL or WRONG, of these Republicans? How is telling the IRS head, to ignore the law on gift taxes for 501c4's not wrong?

And also, politics aside, do all of you think that these huge donations and all donations to political pacs should not be in the Sunshine, should be in Darkness? I think we should know who is paying for our politicians...it's the only way to keep things on the up and up...SUNSHINE.

Do you REALLY want to claim that the hard drive crashes of the Head of Exempt Organizations, the Chief of Staff of the Director of the IRS, the Head of IRS public relations and 4 of the agents working in the office that handles exempt organizations is simple happenstance? And that this all took place after Camp's letter arrives at the IRS? And that nobody retrieves any of this lost data even though it is backed up on tape? And that none of these people have made paper copies of this data even though they are required by law to do so?

Is that what you're REALLY going to go with, Care?

no, I want proof that it is NOT happenstance, to be able to support your theory....not assumptions, but real, tangible proof....surely this can be gotten? Saying that it is too off the wall for this to be happenstance, and knowing as fact that this did not happen by happenstance, are 2 different things, especially in a court of Law....or when criminal accusations or slander, are being touted....

You don't get it....a month before camp's formal letter, the irs was notified of the letter and gift tax situation...so it was 1 to 2 months before the crashed hard drives that the irs was aware of the situation with gift tax issues...shouldn't she have crashed all those hard drives back then instead of waiting 6 weeks, if your contention is correct, that she was trying to hide something regarding the gift tax issue of these 5 PACS that were being audited that Camp's 1st letter was about?

And you say all of this was backed up on tape, is this true? has this been proven? Where are these 'tapes'? (or server files) link or it didn't happen!

I don't know who or where you are getting your info from but much of it is erroneous. Take the time to watch thearchived hearings, download the actual documents check the court cases.

 

[depotoo]

Do you REALLY want to claim that the hard drive crashes of the Head of Exempt Organizations, the Chief of Staff of the Director of the IRS, the Head of IRS public relations and 4 of the agents working in the office that handles exempt organizations is simple happenstance? And that this all took place after Camp's letter arrives at the IRS? And that nobody retrieves any of this lost data even though it is backed up on tape? And that none of these people have made paper copies of this data even though they are required by law to do so?

Is that what you're REALLY going to go with, Care?

no, I want proof that it is NOT happenstance, to be able to support your theory....not assumptions, but real, tangible proof....surely this can be gotten? Saying that it is too off the wall for this to be happenstance, and knowing as fact that this did not happen by happenstance, are 2 different things, especially in a court of Law....or when criminal accusations or slander, are being touted....

You don't get it....a month before camp's formal letter, the irs was notified of the letter and gift tax situation...so it was 1 to 2 months before the crashed hard drives that the irs was aware of the situation with gift tax issues...shouldn't she have crashed all those hard drives back then instead of waiting 6 weeks, if your contention is correct, that she was trying to hide something regarding the gift tax issue of these 5 PACS that were being audited that Camp's 1st letter was about?

And you say all of this was backed up on tape, is this true? has this been proven? Where are these 'tapes'? (or server files) link or it didn't happen!

So you really ARE going with those 7 people's hard drives "crashing" was simply a wild coincidence! What's amazing is that you don't seem to know that there WAS a tape back up of all those computers...or that by law there should have been a paper copy of the pertinent data on those computers. You seem to be blissfully unaware that none of the data lost in the crash was recovered from the tape backups despite a request from Congress for that information or that none of the 7 made any paper copies. Kindly explain how that just "happens"?

They had even been ordered to preserve evidence in a court case before they overwrote the backups, and went right on ahead and supposedly did just that. That judge has now ordered a response as to
why his orders were ignored.

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find astounding, Care...is your total ignorance about the tape back up that wasn't used and the paper copies required by law that were never made. I'm curious...what is your usual news source? What do you read or watch that didn't cover any of this?

Huh?

Care comes across as well informed.

She was not aware that not only were the emails lost on the hard drive....but none saved on the IRS server...none saved on the blackberry server and no paper copies have been found? Is she also not aware that paper copies are required by law?

Care....is it true you were not aware of this?

That is not a dig on you Care....it is concerning that the media is not doing their job.

You really did not know about this?

I am well aware of all of that and thus my thousand and 1 questions....

My questions are, if Learner did not print copies of her own email and the 7 others did not either...was THIS THE CASE with all IRS employees as well....meaning, was this the normal practice of the IRS for all employees, even though, the law states that they should back up emails? or was this fishy because ONLY Learner and the other 7 irs employees the ONLY employees that did not follow the irs protocol?

And my question to Oldstyle was him saying that the back up tapes (servers) were lost as well....

and I am surprised at this because I thought we were hearing that there were no back ups made to the emails....(even though you would think there would be) And my thoughts are...if there were "no back ups" to Learner and the 7 others emails, are there NO BACK UPS for any and ALL of the irs employee emails, so Learner and these 7 are not standing out as the lone people without back ups, or was the IRS protocol in place just loose as a goose and no one had back ups at the irs of their own emails?

The back up tapes were not "lost"...they were erased after six months had gone by. What's astounding is that nobody at the IRS bothered to recreate the lost data on those 7 hard drives that "crashed" even though they KNEW that the Congressional committee investigating the IRS scandal had requested emails from them. How do you do that, Care? How do you have seven different people's computers crash that are intimately involved in an investigation and then just "forget" to retrieve what was lost from the backup tape? That's after you've already broken the law because you've not backed up this data with paper copies. So your hard drive crashes...you don't retrieve the data that was lost from the back-up tapes...you sit idly by while the back up tapes are erased and then you admit that you didn't make a paper copy of your data even though you're being INVESTIGATED by Congress and are required by law to do so? And you're actually buying the story that these people are selling? LOL Come on, Care...nobody is THAT naive!

 

[Siete]

so where are all the Republican lawmakers who should be backing Issa over this, like the Republican lawmakers backed Boehner when he was fighting Healthcare ?

Which Republicans have criticized Issa?

criticizing isn't the point, supporting Issa is .. get it? then answer my question ..

 

[Papageorgio]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

 

[Vigilante]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

Lotto odds are...

Odds of SEVEN hard drives all self destructing at the same time, and all needed as evidence...... There aren't enough ZERO'S!!!!!

 

[Care4all]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....

but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

 

[Siete]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....



but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

there you go. More missing emails obviously says the system was trash, thus explainable.

again, where are the Republican lawmakers on Issa's side ???

lettimg him make an idiot out of himself rather than join him and make idiots out of everyone on his team?

Apparently so.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ke-rogers-says-irs-scandal-clearly-showed-so/

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Oldstyle]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....

but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

LOL...I know you WANT this to be explainable, Care but there is no way on God's green earth for all the things the IRS is claiming to have happened to have REALLY happened! First of all...what would the odds be that Lois Lerner's computer would crash (the Head of Exempt Organizations), Nikole Flax's computer would crash (formally working in Exempt Organizations for Lerner before becoming Chief of Staff to the IRS Commissioner) and Michelle Eldridge's computer would crash (IRS National Media Relations Chief) all in a short amount of time? Then amazingly enough four of the agents working in the Exempt Organizations office had THEIR computers crash as well! Keep in mind that all of these computer crashes occurred after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS.

That by itself would be extremely dubious but then you throw in that NONE of these 7 people committed any of their emails to paper even though by Federal law they are required to do so it gets even MORE dubious!

Then add to that the IRS's complete failure to recover any of this data from the tape back ups that they are required to have as well...even though they KNEW that Congress had been asking for the emails and the IRS had promised for months that they would get them! That's the one that should set off bells and whistles, Care! Everything Congress was asking for would have been on those tape backups. Yet months went by and none of it was recovered despite Congress's repeated requests. Then, those back up tapes were erased! ERASED!!! Think about that!!! Who the hell erases back up tapes that hold information that has been asked for in a Congressional investigation and that you have PROMISED repeatedly is going to be delivered? Are you REALLY contending that the IRS just "forgot" to get that data off those back ups?

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....

but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

LOL...I know you WANT this to be explainable, Care but there is no way on God's green earth for all the things the IRS is claiming to have happened to have REALLY happened! First of all...what would the odds be that Lois Lerner's computer would crash (the Head of Exempt Organizations), Nikole Flax's computer would crash (formally working in Exempt Organizations for Lerner before becoming Chief of Staff to the IRS Commissioner) and Michelle Eldridge's computer would crash (IRS National Media Relations Chief) all in a short amount of time? Then amazingly enough four of the agents working in the Exempt Organizations office had THEIR computers crash as well! Keep in mind that all of these computer crashes occurred after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS.

That by itself would be extremely dubious but then you throw in that NONE of these 7 people committed any of their emails to paper even though by Federal law they are required to do so it gets even MORE dubious!

Then add to that the IRS's complete failure to recover any of this data from the tape back ups that they are required to have as well...even though they KNEW that Congress had been asking for the emails and the IRS had promised for months that they would get them! That's the one that should set off bells and whistles, Care! Everything Congress was asking for would have been on those tape backups. Yet months went by and none of it was recovered despite Congress's repeated requests. Then, those back up tapes were erased! ERASED!!! Think about that!!! Who the hell erases back up tapes that hold information that has been asked for in a Congressional investigation and that you have PROMISED repeatedly is going to be delivered? Are you REALLY contending that the IRS just "forgot" to get that data off those back ups?

Liberals know there's corruption.. They don't care. They will play this game and tear down this nation instead of doing what's right.

 

[depotoo]

haha! AND I see that is even from the Washington Post!

 

[asterism]

Government corruption and the liberals ignore the loss of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but seven hard drives, not backed up as required, none of the seven. Imagine that! Them they are supposed to have paper copy and guess what...none of them do!

How do you explain this away as a coincidence?

How stupid do you have to be to believe it was all just happenstance?

I'm serious guys, who really is falling for this?

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....

but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

The onus is on the IRS to provide evidence exonerating itself since it has not complied with a lawful subpoena. The onus is not on the citizens to accept speculation from a partisan political supporter of this administration.

 

[Oldstyle]

Bottom line...the IRS appears to have deliberately destroyed evidence that had been subpoenaed by a Congressional Committee. People should be doing jail time for this.

If only we had a REAL Attorney General...

 

[Jarhead]

What I find astounding, Care...is your total ignorance about the tape back up that wasn't used and the paper copies required by law that were never made. I'm curious...what is your usual news source? What do you read or watch that didn't cover any of this?

Huh?

Care comes across as well informed.

She was not aware that not only were the emails lost on the hard drive....but none saved on the IRS server...none saved on the blackberry server and no paper copies have been found? Is she also not aware that paper copies are required by law?

Care....is it true you were not aware of this?

That is not a dig on you Care....it is concerning that the media is not doing their job.

You really did not know about this?

I am well aware of all of that and thus my thousand and 1 questions....

My questions are, if Learner did not print copies of her own email and the 7 others did not either...was THIS THE CASE with all IRS employees as well....meaning, was this the normal practice of the IRS for all employees, even though, the law states that they should back up emails? or was this fishy because ONLY Learner and the other 7 irs employees the ONLY employees that did not follow the irs protocol?

And my question to Oldstyle was him saying that the back up tapes (servers) were lost as well....

and I am surprised at this because I thought we were hearing that there were no back ups made to the emails....(even though you would think there would be) And my thoughts are...if there were "no back ups" to Learner and the 7 others emails, are there NO BACK UPS for any and ALL of the irs employee emails, so Learner and these 7 are not standing out as the lone people without back ups, or was the IRS protocol in place just loose as a goose and no one had back ups at the irs of their own emails?

You seem to ignore the fact that Lerner was a director of a department. She was a senior level employee.

But putting that aside....

The law states all emails are to be saved on hard copy. If they were not following such protocol, then they had reason to not follow such protocol. What would that reason be?

Are you saying that a department such as hers was not subject to possible lawsuits? They are involved in lawsuits regularly. Not saving emails would make it impossible to defend themselves against lawsuits.

But lets put that aside as well.

The President seems to believe there is not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS. He stated it as fact and his administration is claiming that this is nothing but a witch hunt.

How was he able to make that assertion if there was no data/paper trail to confirm it?

Or will you TOO not answer that question.

 

[Jarhead]

Your answer made no sense. Why would she be under pressure to do her job?
So what is the answer?
You know what it is: She was under tremendous pressure by Democrats to rein in tax exempt conservative orgs. It can't be anything else.

What I know and what you claim she stated as fact are two different things.

How come the investigator the president hired did not ask to see emails and hard drives of the subject of the investigation or interview the alleged victims before determining that no crimes were committed?

What evidence did she review that showed lerner did nothing criminal?

And before you simply answer "I don't know".....

Why would the President accept her findings as conclusive if, in fact, she did not have access to emails and hard drives of Lois Lerner?

And before you answer "I don't know"....

If you were a victim of a rogue banker who stole all of your money....would you be satisfied with findings of "no crime committed" if the investigator did not interview you or look at any of the electronic records of the banker?

Or are you going to do what everyone else on the left has done and ignore these questions?

BlindBoo....Siete....ClosedCaption......Care4All...

Why will none of you address these questions above? I have asked them several times over the past several weeks in multiple threads but no one will respond.

Why?

Can you truly say that such is not a bit strange? What did we pay that investigator?

Should the President have accepted her findings as fact?

 

[The Rabbi]

What I know and what you claim she stated as fact are two different things.

How come the investigator the president hired did not ask to see emails and hard drives of the subject of the investigation or interview the alleged victims before determining that no crimes were committed?

What evidence did she review that showed lerner did nothing criminal?

And before you simply answer "I don't know".....

Why would the President accept her findings as conclusive if, in fact, she did not have access to emails and hard drives of Lois Lerner?

And before you answer "I don't know"....

If you were a victim of a rogue banker who stole all of your money....would you be satisfied with findings of "no crime committed" if the investigator did not interview you or look at any of the electronic records of the banker?

Or are you going to do what everyone else on the left has done and ignore these questions?

BlindBoo....Siete....ClosedCaption......Care4All...

Why will none of you address these questions above? I have asked them several times over the past several weeks in multiple threads but no one will respond.

Why?

Can you truly say that such is not a bit strange? What did we pay that investigator?

Should the President have accepted her findings as fact?

You already know the answer.
Dems are lying scum. They don't really care if Democratic Senators pressured the IRS into suppressing conservative groups. Hell, they'd welcome that. That's their team kicking ass. That's all that matters to them.

 

[Jarhead]

I am not saying crimes were committed.
I am not saying Lois Lerner did nothing wrong.
I am not saying the IRS is corrupt.

I am saying it needs to be investigated. There is enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an investigation. There are enough complaints to warrant an investigation.

What bothers me is our President, The ranking Member Cummings, our Attorney General, our senate majority leader and our House minority leader telling the American people

'there is nothing to see here. Any further time on this is a waste of tax payer money'

And they are making those statements based on the findings of an investigator who did not interview any alleged victims and did not have a paper/data trail to review.

THAT is un-American. It is not supposed to be how it works.