BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[Oldstyle]

When the GOP Head of the Ways & Means writes you a letter demanding to know who it was that was behind the investigation of 5 groups...all of which are conservative groups...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Camp is calling the IRS onto the carpet over the targeting of conservative groups. It also doesn't take a brain surgeon to look at the crash of 7 hard drives of the people intimately involved in that targeting right after Camp's letter and realize that a cover-up took place at the IRS.

 

[Care4all]

Because she was under pressure to fix the problem of liberal groups, which is why she targeted liberal groups for heightened scrutiny, right?

Where and when did Lerner specify either Conservative or Liberal groups?

Are you deliberately trying to live up to your name, Boo? It's quite apparent that Lerner's focus was on conservative groups. The five groups that Camp was concerned about in the initial letter to the IRS were all conservative groups...the overwhelming majority of groups that were targeted for investigation were conservative. The names that were used as a criteria for investigation were things like tea party and patriot. I know that it's been a liberal talking point since this started that liberal groups were also investigated but the facts are that very few liberal groups were targeted and the ones that were...were not forced to jump through the same never ending series of hoops that the conservative groups were. Lois Lerner had an agenda and it WASN'T to investigate both liberal and conservative groups equally...she decided that conservative groups were the problem and she coordinated with both the Justice Department and the White House to address that problem. THAT is the reason that she's taken the 5th! If she subjected both ends of the political spectrum to the same degree of harassment then she wouldn't be doing that.

They were "tea Party Groups" BUT NOT Republican groups...

she audited a handful of Republican groups, and hand full of Democratic groups, and a bunch of Tea Party groups....

she audited about as many Republican groups as she did Democratic groups....minus 1, I believe...

so if "favoritism" was shown towards Democratic groups, then "favoritism" was also shown towards Republican groups...it was the groups with Tea Party in their names that got the most scrutiny....

What we don't know is was this proportionate to the amount of tea party groups that applied for this tax status? Were there more tea party groups that applied for this tax status than there were Republican groups or Democratic groups?

Although it appears to be the case, ya can't really say she was being unfair, without knowing this part of the equation.

 

[BlindBoo]

Because she was under pressure to fix the problem of liberal groups, which is why she targeted liberal groups for heightened scrutiny, right?

Where and when did Lerner specify either Conservative or Liberal groups?

Are you deliberately trying to live up to your name, Boo? It's quite apparent that Lerner's focus was on conservative groups. The five groups that Camp was concerned about in the initial letter to the IRS were all conservative groups...the overwhelming majority of groups that were targeted for investigation were conservative. The names that were used as a criteria for investigation were things like tea party and patriot. I know that it's been a liberal talking point since this started that liberal groups were also investigated but the facts are that very few liberal groups were targeted and the ones that were...were not forced to jump through the same never ending series of hoops that the conservative groups were. Lois Lerner had an agenda and it WASN'T to investigate both liberal and conservative groups equally...she decided that conservative groups were the problem and she coordinated with both the Justice Department and the White House to address that problem. THAT is the reason that she's taken the 5th! If she subjected both ends of the political spectrum to the same degree of harassment then she wouldn't be doing that.

Do you understand that applications from conservative groups outnumbered liberal applications 10 to 1?

I don't think Lerner ever stated that "they were under tremendous pressure to "do something" about conservative groups in the wake of Citizens United"

Which was present as fact by Rabbi. Furthermore, I think the distortion comes from this:

Testimony: In 2010, Justice Department Sought Lois Lerner?s Help to Prosecute Tax Exempt Groups Engaging in Politics | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

That dog was always deaf and went blind but she could sniff out the truth (to where I hid her pull toy) no matter how much I tried to deceive her. (except when we washed it).

 

[BlindBoo]

By her subsequent actions. Do you think she was under pressure to quash liberal groups?

It was the very first one on your list! You're the one who said it was a fact that Lerner stated she was under tremendous pressure to to "do something" about conservative groups in the wake of Citizens United.

Now it appears to be not so much a fact.

Of course it is a fact. It is proven by subsequent events. Are you deliberately blind, Boo?

You said it was a fact she stated it.

 

[Oldstyle]

because it wasn't. and the washington post agrees with me.

Then the Washington Post is rather pathetic...isn't it? Trying to make the argument that Camp's letter wasn't about conservatives because the word conservative isn't IN the letter is an exercise in logical gymnastics! It's obvious from the response by Lerner that SHE knew that Camp's letter was about the targeting of conservatives.

so we're back to assumptions and away from facts - is that it?

What "assumptions" am I making that you find faulty? Is Camp NOT the GOP Head of the powerful Ways & Means? Did his letter NOT specifically ask for information about who targeted five conservative groups? Did the hard drives of 7 people involved in that decision to target those groups NOT all "crash" shortly after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS?

Tell me where my assumptions are wrong and the Washington Post's are right!

 

[ogibillm]

Then the Washington Post is rather pathetic...isn't it? Trying to make the argument that Camp's letter wasn't about conservatives because the word conservative isn't IN the letter is an exercise in logical gymnastics! It's obvious from the response by Lerner that SHE knew that Camp's letter was about the targeting of conservatives.

so we're back to assumptions and away from facts - is that it?

What "assumptions" am I making that you find faulty? Is Camp NOT the GOP Head of the powerful Ways & Means? Did his letter NOT specifically ask for information about who targeted five conservative groups? Did the hard drives of 7 people involved in that decision to target those groups NOT all "crash" shortly after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS?

Tell me where my assumptions are wrong and the Washington Post's are right!

what response did Lerner give to Camp's letter?

 

[Oldstyle]

Where and when did Lerner specify either Conservative or Liberal groups?

Are you deliberately trying to live up to your name, Boo? It's quite apparent that Lerner's focus was on conservative groups. The five groups that Camp was concerned about in the initial letter to the IRS were all conservative groups...the overwhelming majority of groups that were targeted for investigation were conservative. The names that were used as a criteria for investigation were things like tea party and patriot. I know that it's been a liberal talking point since this started that liberal groups were also investigated but the facts are that very few liberal groups were targeted and the ones that were...were not forced to jump through the same never ending series of hoops that the conservative groups were. Lois Lerner had an agenda and it WASN'T to investigate both liberal and conservative groups equally...she decided that conservative groups were the problem and she coordinated with both the Justice Department and the White House to address that problem. THAT is the reason that she's taken the 5th! If she subjected both ends of the political spectrum to the same degree of harassment then she wouldn't be doing that.

They were "tea Party Groups" BUT NOT Republican groups...

she audited a handful of Republican groups, and hand full of Democratic groups, and a bunch of Tea Party groups....

she audited about as many Republican groups as she did Democratic groups....minus 1, I believe...

so if "favoritism" was shown towards Democratic groups, then "favoritism" was also shown towards Republican groups...it was the groups with Tea Party in their names that got the most scrutiny....

What we don't know is was this proportionate to the amount of tea party groups that applied for this tax status? Were there more tea party groups that applied for this tax status than there were Republican groups or Democratic groups?

Although it appears to be the case, ya can't really say she was being unfair, without knowing this part of the equation.

Care, the ratio of conservative groups targeted compared to liberal groups targeted is so skewed that it's farce to say that each received equal treatment. Lerner does not take the 5th if she was being fair...she takes the 5th because she knows that she WASN'T being fair.

 

[Oldstyle]

so we're back to assumptions and away from facts - is that it?

What "assumptions" am I making that you find faulty? Is Camp NOT the GOP Head of the powerful Ways & Means? Did his letter NOT specifically ask for information about who targeted five conservative groups? Did the hard drives of 7 people involved in that decision to target those groups NOT all "crash" shortly after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS?

Tell me where my assumptions are wrong and the Washington Post's are right!

what response did Lerner give to Camp's letter?

It's quite obvious what response Lerner had to Camp's letter. Her computer hard drive was wiped out. The person she was in contact with at the Justice Department's computer hard drive was wiped out. The head of IRS's public relations hard drive was wiped out. The hard drives of 4 of the agents in Cinn. that were working on those cases were wiped out. How much more of a "response" did you want to see?

 

[depotoo]

HIGHLIGHTS
INAPPROPRIATE CRITERIA WERE USED TO IDENTIFY TAX-EXEMPT APPLICATIONS FOR REVIEW
Highlights
Final Report issued on May 14, 2013
Highlights of Reference Number:* 2013-10-053 to the Internal Revenue Service Acting Commissioner,*Tax Exempt and Government Entities Division.
IMPACT ON TAXPAYERS
Early in Calendar Year 2010, the IRS began using inappropriate criteria to identify organizations applying for tax‑exempt status to review for indications of significant political campaign intervention.* Although the IRS has taken some action, it will need to do more so that the public has reasonable assurance that applications are processed without unreasonable delay in a fair and impartial manner in the future.
WHY TIGTA DID THE AUDIT
TIGTA initiated this audit based on concerns expressed by members of Congress.* The overall objective of this audit was to determine whether allegations were founded that the IRS: *1) targeted specific groups applying for tax‑exempt status, 2)*delayed processing of targeted groups’ applications, and 3) requested unnecessary information from targeted groups.
WHAT TIGTA FOUND
The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax‑exempt status based upon their*names or policy positions instead of indications of potential political campaign intervention.* Ineffective management: *1)*allowed inappropriate criteria to be developed and stay in place for more than 18 months, 2)*resulted in substantial delays in processing certain applications, and 3) allowed unnecessary information requests to be issued.
Although the processing of some applications with potential significant political campaign intervention was started soon after receipt, no work was completed on the majority of these applications for 13*months.**This was due to delays in receivingassistance from the Exempt Organizations function Headquarters office. *For the 296 total political campaign intervention applications TIGTA reviewed as of December*17, 2012, 108 had been approved, 28*were withdrawn by the applicant, none*had been denied, and 160 were open from 206*to 1,138*calendar days (some for more than three*years and crossing two*election cycles).
More than 20 months after the initial case was identified, processing the cases began in earnest. *Many organizations received requests for additional information from the IRS that included unnecessary, burdensome questions (e.g., lists of past and future donors).* The IRS later informed some organizations that they did not need to provide previously requested information. *IRS officials stated that any donor information received in response to a request from its Determinations Unit was later destroyed.
............
Who was head of the tax exempt division? Hint, last name was Lerner. Who is responsible for their division's actions?

Lets just take your first supposed fact. What is your source for this allegation? I think you distorted it by adding the word conservative to make your case.

“the Justice Department convened a meeting with former IRS official Lois Lerner in October 2010 to discuss how the IRS could assist in the criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active nonprofits. This meeting was arranged at the direction of Public Integrity Section Chief Jack Smith.”

The meeting occurred days before Lois Lerner spoke at a Duke University event about the immense political pressure on the IRS to “fix the problem” created by Citizens United before the 2010 midterm election.

Testimony: In 2010, Justice Department Sought Lois Lerner?s Help to Prosecute Tax Exempt Groups Engaging in Politics | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

Because she was under pressure to fix the problem of liberal groups, which is why she targeted liberal groups for heightened scrutiny, right?

Where and when did Lerner specify either Conservative or Liberal groups?

 

[ogibillm]

What "assumptions" am I making that you find faulty? Is Camp NOT the GOP Head of the powerful Ways & Means? Did his letter NOT specifically ask for information about who targeted five conservative groups? Did the hard drives of 7 people involved in that decision to target those groups NOT all "crash" shortly after Camp's letter arrived at the IRS?

Tell me where my assumptions are wrong and the Washington Post's are right!

what response did Lerner give to Camp's letter?

It's quite obvious what response Lerner had to Camp's letter. Her computer hard drive was wiped out. The person she was in contact with at the Justice Department's computer hard drive was wiped out. The head of IRS's public relations hard drive was wiped out. The hard drives of 4 of the agents in Cinn. that were working on those cases were wiped out. How much more of a "response" did you want to see?

so we're back to assumptions and not facts - is that it?

seems you're in some circular logic too. the reason you know that lerner knew of camps letter and that it was about the targeting of conservatives is because she crashed her hard drive, and the reason we know that she crashed her hard drive is because of Camp's letter...

 

[Papageorgio]

So you agree with me but I'm a liar? WTF?
Fact: Lois Lerner stated they were under tremendous pressure to "do something" about conservative groups in the wake of Citizens United.
Fact: Democratic Senators and Representatives sent letters to the IRS asking them to investigate various conservative groups.
Fact: Conservative groups applying for tax exempt status were subjected to delays and inappropriate scrutiny prior to the election.
Fact: Lois Lerner took the 5th
Fact: Rep Dave Camp sent a letter of inquiry to the iRS about the matter 10 days before Lerner's computer "crashed" and all the emails were wiped out.
Fact: Six other connected with this also experienced catastrophic crashes with unrecoverable emails.
Fact: Two federal judges have ordered investigations by magistrates into the IRS's handling of those emails.
Fact: The Justice Dept commenced an investigation by an Obama contributor and reported back in a week tat there was nothing to see.
Fact: Every statement by this administration about the matter has been proven to be a lie.
Fact: The IRS revealed confidential tax information on conservative groups to both the FBI and outside liberal political groups.

Now, you're going to tell me that this does not stink to high heaven, that all of it was a simple misunderstanding, that it can be explained without saying the administration and/or Democrats were involved in a big, really big, illegal effort to suppress conservaive groups? Please, tell me that with a straight face. Do it, I doubt dare you.

Lets just take your first supposed fact. What is your source for this allegation? I think you distorted it by adding the word conservative to make your case.

“the Justice Department convened a meeting with former IRS official Lois Lerner in October 2010 to discuss how the IRS could assist in the criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active nonprofits. This meeting was arranged at the direction of Public Integrity Section Chief Jack Smith.”

The meeting occurred days before Lois Lerner spoke at a Duke University event about the immense political pressure on the IRS to “fix the problem” created by Citizens United before the 2010 midterm election.

Testimony: In 2010, Justice Department Sought Lois Lerner?s Help to Prosecute Tax Exempt Groups Engaging in Politics | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

the rabbi likes to make shit up and lie to make his case.

Fact: Conservative groups applying for tax exempt status were subjected to delays and inappropriate scrutiny prior to the election.
Fact: Lois Lerner took the 5th
Fact: Rep Dave Camp sent a letter of inquiry to the iRS about the matter 10 days before Lerner's computer "crashed" and all the emails were wiped out.

for example, although it's been repeatedly shown to him that Dave Camp did not send a letter about the targeting of conservative groups he continues to make that claim as if it were a 'fact'

You cling to one point as proof that every point you have is valid, you are splitting hairs and you won't answer my questions, because you can't give an honest answer or it blows you whole stand out of the water.

Of course in this thread, I see honesty and reality are not your strong point.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[Sallow]

Fact: According to Federal Law, none of the Tea Party groups should have received 501 c 4 status.

 

[depotoo]

Fact: According to Federal Law, none of the Tea Party groups should have received 501 c 4 status.

Fact. You are lying.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was the very first one on your list! You're the one who said it was a fact that Lerner stated she was under tremendous pressure to to "do something" about conservative groups in the wake of Citizens United.

Now it appears to be not so much a fact.

Of course it is a fact. It is proven by subsequent events. Are you deliberately blind, Boo?

You said it was a fact she stated it.

Yes. She did state it.


She says "everyone was up in arms about it (CU)." Now, were Republicans up in arms about it? Were Conservatives up in arms about it? Or were liberals and Democrats up in arms about it? And if the latter, were they putting pressure on her to squelch liberal groups?

 

[depotoo]

Just a few of Democratic 501c4's
Act Blue
Blue America Pac
Progressive Change Campaign Committee
Democracy for America
moveon.org
Priorities USA

 

[The Rabbi]

Lets just take your first supposed fact. What is your source for this allegation? I think you distorted it by adding the word conservative to make your case.

“the Justice Department convened a meeting with former IRS official Lois Lerner in October 2010 to discuss how the IRS could assist in the criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active nonprofits. This meeting was arranged at the direction of Public Integrity Section Chief Jack Smith.”

The meeting occurred days before Lois Lerner spoke at a Duke University event about the immense political pressure on the IRS to “fix the problem” created by Citizens United before the 2010 midterm election.

Testimony: In 2010, Justice Department Sought Lois Lerner?s Help to Prosecute Tax Exempt Groups Engaging in Politics | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

the rabbi likes to make shit up and lie to make his case.

Fact: Conservative groups applying for tax exempt status were subjected to delays and inappropriate scrutiny prior to the election.
Fact: Lois Lerner took the 5th
Fact: Rep Dave Camp sent a letter of inquiry to the iRS about the matter 10 days before Lerner's computer "crashed" and all the emails were wiped out.

for example, although it's been repeatedly shown to him that Dave Camp did not send a letter about the targeting of conservative groups he continues to make that claim as if it were a 'fact'

You cling to one point as proof that every point you have is valid, you are splitting hairs and you won't answer my questions, because you can't give an honest answer or it blows you whole stand out of the water.

Of course in this thread, I see honesty and reality are not your strong point.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

Did Dave Camp not send a letter? No, I dont think so.
Did the letter not make inquiries about activities of the Exempt Orgs section, headed by Lerner? Yup, it did.
Would Lerner have seen this letter pretty much immediately? Yup, sure would.

Ogrebiter can only claim I'm lying when he's the one doing the lying.

 

[BlindBoo]

Of course it is a fact. It is proven by subsequent events. Are you deliberately blind, Boo?

You said it was a fact she stated it.

Yes. She did state it.


She says "everyone was up in arms about it (CU)." Now, were Republicans up in arms about it? Were Conservatives up in arms about it? Or were liberals and Democrats up in arms about it? And if the latter, were they putting pressure on her to squelch liberal groups?

In that clip? Nope. She never claimed she was under tremendous pressure to "do something" about conservative groups.

Testimony: In 2010, Justice Department Sought Lois Lerner?s Help to Prosecute Tax Exempt Groups Engaging in Politics | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

 

[Oldstyle]

what response did Lerner give to Camp's letter?

It's quite obvious what response Lerner had to Camp's letter. Her computer hard drive was wiped out. The person she was in contact with at the Justice Department's computer hard drive was wiped out. The head of IRS's public relations hard drive was wiped out. The hard drives of 4 of the agents in Cinn. that were working on those cases were wiped out. How much more of a "response" did you want to see?

so we're back to assumptions and not facts - is that it?

seems you're in some circular logic too. the reason you know that lerner knew of camps letter and that it was about the targeting of conservatives is because she crashed her hard drive, and the reason we know that she crashed her hard drive is because of Camp's letter...

Let me get this straight...you actually think that Lois Lerner WOULDN'T have been apprised of the letter from Camp as soon as it was received by the IRS? How could she NOT have been? Gee, the Chairman of the Ways & Means (the group that approves funding for government organizations) is pissed off and wants answers about what's happening in the Exempt Organizations Division but you don't think the Director of that division would have gotten a call? Really? Where is the "logic" in that!

As for my "circular logic"? When an inquiry is made and the hard drives of Lois Lerner, the Director of Exempt Organizations Division...Nikole Flax, the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commisioner...Michelle Eldridge, the IRS National Media Relations Chief...and four of the IRS agents working in the Exempt Organizations office...all crash in a short period of time...thus destroying the email communications between the parties...how is my logic "circular" that this is a "cause and effect" of the Camp letter being received?

 

[ogibillm]

It's quite obvious what response Lerner had to Camp's letter. Her computer hard drive was wiped out. The person she was in contact with at the Justice Department's computer hard drive was wiped out. The head of IRS's public relations hard drive was wiped out. The hard drives of 4 of the agents in Cinn. that were working on those cases were wiped out. How much more of a "response" did you want to see?

so we're back to assumptions and not facts - is that it?

seems you're in some circular logic too. the reason you know that lerner knew of camps letter and that it was about the targeting of conservatives is because she crashed her hard drive, and the reason we know that she crashed her hard drive is because of Camp's letter...

Let me get this straight...you actually think that Lois Lerner WOULDN'T have been apprised of the letter from Camp as soon as it was received by the IRS? How could she NOT have been? Gee, the Chairman of the Ways & Means (the group that approves funding for government organizations) is pissed off and wants answers about what's happening in the Exempt Organizations Division but you don't think the Director of that division would have gotten a call? Really? Where is the "logic" in that!

As for my "circular logic"? When an inquiry is made and the hard drives of Lois Lerner, the Director of Exempt Organizations Division...Nikole Flax, the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commisioner...Michelle Eldridge, the IRS National Media Relations Chief...and four of the IRS agents working in the Exempt Organizations office...all crash in a short period of time...thus destroying the email communications between the parties...how is my logic "circular" that this is a "cause and effect" of the Camp letter being received?

your proof that she was appraised and concerned about the letter is that she caused the hard drive crashes, and your proof that she caused the hard drive crashes is concern over the letter.

how much more circular can it get?

 

[ogibillm]

the rabbi likes to make shit up and lie to make his case.


for example, although it's been repeatedly shown to him that Dave Camp did not send a letter about the targeting of conservative groups he continues to make that claim as if it were a 'fact'

You cling to one point as proof that every point you have is valid, you are splitting hairs and you won't answer my questions, because you can't give an honest answer or it blows you whole stand out of the water.

Of course in this thread, I see honesty and reality are not your strong point.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

Did Dave Camp not send a letter? No, I dont think so.
Did the letter not make inquiries about activities of the Exempt Orgs section, headed by Lerner? Yup, it did.
Would Lerner have seen this letter pretty much immediately? Yup, sure would.

Ogrebiter can only claim I'm lying when he's the one doing the lying.

except you continue to lie.

you posted a video, claiming that in that video lerner said she was under pressure to target conservative groups, and yet you know that in that video she makes no such claim.