Boycott - Proposition 8 protesters target businesses

[Sunni Man]

Ask him how he felt about boycotting the Dixie Chicks because they made Bush feel bad.

Right on topic as ususal l

 

[jillian]

Good point

Thank you.

 

[jillian]

Right on topic as ususal l

Was that like a joke???

Ohhhhhhhhh... Argh Argh... humor.

 

[Red Dawn]

Yup thugs and use of intimidation AFTER the fact are signs of a healthy respect of our democratic principles indeed.

So remind me, how do you feel about protests in front of abortion clinics? Of outing Doctors that preform abortions? Of boycotts on said doctors and clinics?

Did you support the rightwing boycott of the Dixie Chicks, for an offhand comment they made about George Bush?

Yes, you did.

These prop 8 supporters actively worked for months to deny an entire group of americans the simple right to a legal committed relationship. That's worse than an offhanded comment about your hero, George Dumbya Bush, IMO.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

BaC I believe that offered three different approaches on this issue that can be followed and IMHO the third one is the easiest. However, my contention is that this issue is such a divissive one that in order to sway voters minds which I submit to you will have to be done eventually, the one way to do that is not to attack them but rather to educate them. While boycott is a form of protest that is tried and true your correct, in this case I submit it will do nothing but entrench opposing sides in this issue.

I hate to keep using this, but it is just so damn appropriate an example.

For more many years blacks had to ride the back of the bus throughout the south, and even elderly black women had to get up and give their seat to any white person who demanded it.

The Montgomery Bus Boycott was devised and a relative five minutes later, that injustice ended .. but not just in Montgomery, Alabama ..their courageous stand reverberated throughout the south ... AND, it opened the door to more aggressively attack other injustices.

Blacks suffered for hundreds of years waiting for the "good" people to figure it out and get educated about the evil done in their names.

Your words here reminds me Of Aretha Franklin's father, Rev C.L. Franklin, who admonished Dr. King and others about coming to Detroit "demanding." He also though King should spend more time educating whites as opposed to demanding an end to injustice. But, my friend, sometimes it necessary to say fuck what other people think, this injustice ends now. For many who support the right for gays to marry, this is one of those times.

Rights are determined by what you can demand .. and by nothing else.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Did you support the rightwing boycott of the Dixie Chicks, for an offhand comment they made about George Bush?

Yes, you did.

These prop 8 supporters actively worked for months to deny an entire group of americans the simple right to a legal committed relationship. That's worse than an offhanded comment about your hero, George Dumbya Bush, IMO.

Nice how you know what I did years ago. First off I do not listen to Country Music Stations unless I am desperate and can not find a station that is not talk. The only music I bought ever from the Country area is Alison Krauss cause I love her voice. She is Blue Grass, by the way. So much for that ignorant pap.

Further Bush has never been my hero, he is not even a conservative. He simply was the only choice in 2000 and 2004 against rabid left wing idiots Gore and Kerry. Bush should have lost in 2004, but you idiotic leftoids managed once again to shoot your self in the foot by picking a candidate that could and did lose to Bush.

 

[editec]

How much money did the Church of Later Days Saints of UTAH contribute to the defeat of the prop 8 in CA?

Anyone have any real numbers of that?

I'm hearing this charge, but haven't heard any specifics about it.

 

[Navy1960]

I hate to keep using this, but it is just so damn appropriate an example.

For more many years blacks had to ride the back of the bus throughout the south, and even elderly black women had to get up and give their seat to any white person who demanded it.

The Montgomery Bus Boycott was devised and a relative five minutes later, that injustice ended .. but not just in Montgomery, Alabama ..their courageous stand reverberated throughout the south ... AND, it opened the door to more aggressively attack other injustices.

Blacks suffered for hundreds of years waiting for the "good" people to figure it out and get educated about the evil done in their names.

Your words here reminds me Of Aretha Franklin's father, Rev C.L. Franklin, who admonished Dr. King and others about coming to Detroit "demanding." He also though King should spend more time educating whites as opposed to demanding an end to injustice. But, my friend, sometimes it necessary to say fuck what other people think, this injustice ends now. For many who support the right for gays to marry, this is one of those times.

Rights are determined by what you can demand .. and by nothing else.

BaC your not seriously comparing the gay marriage issue with the civil rights struggles that African Americans and many hispanics still go through today are you? I'm sorry while on a personal level I could care less what gay couples do one way or the other, there is no way the issues in the gay community in my mind would ever rise to the same level of those struggles that many ethnic people had to endure in the United States . While I understand the on a base level why your trying to compare the two, forgive me but this issue in no way rises to anywhere near that level. It is in fact the gay communitys efforts to have society conform to a set of norms they deem to be acceptable , when at this point in time in Ca. and other places they don't deem it acceptable and it really is that simple.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How much money did the Church of Later Days Saints of UTAH contribute to the defeat of the prop 8 in CA?

Anyone have any real numbers of that?

I'm hearing this charge, but haven't heard any specifics about it.

The church did not give a dime. They encouraged their members to donate.

 

[Red Dawn]

BaC your not seriously comparing the gay marriage issue with the civil rights struggles that African Americans and many hispanics still go through today are you? I'm sorry while on a personal level I could care less what gay couples do one way or the other, there is no way the issues in the gay community in my mind would ever rise to the same level of those struggles that many ethnic people had to endure in the United States . While I understand the on a base level why your trying to compare the two, forgive me but this issue in no way rises to anywhere near that level. It is in fact the gay communitys efforts to have society conform to a set of norms they deem to be acceptable , when at this point in time in Ca. and other places they don't deem it acceptable and it really is that simple.

True, gays aren't routinely being strung up from trees like african americans were. There's no systematic terrorization of gays to the same degree. Although Mathew Shepard is a grim reminder of anti-gay hate crimes.

Still, anti-gay discrmination is widespread and appalling. You can't serve in the US military if you're gay. You will be fired from your job.

You can be fired from any job, in most states, simply for being gay and its totally legal. Culturally, in many parts of the country, particularly the red states, there are enourmous amounts of bias, fear, and discrimination against gays.

Its not an equal country for gay americans, not by a long shot.

 

[tresha]

It's comparable in that rights are being denied an entire class of people based on another class of people's beliefs.

No, gays have not been enslaved and for that I am eternally grateful.

But to this day, I am denied the right to join the military, to adopt a child, to marry the woman I love, I can be denied housing, I can be denied a job, I can be kept from appointing my beloved the right to have decisions over my health.

All because a class of people believe, my "lifestyle" is corrupt.

BaC, I applaud you man and I think you're right.
There are times that the only way to end inequality is to stand up and say, "No. Not this time. Not anymore."

This is one of those times.

 

[DavidS]

Yup thugs and use of intimidation AFTER the fact are signs of a healthy respect of our democratic principles indeed.

Thugs? People exercising their right to do business or not to do business with a company because they either do or don't like them?? Tell me, would you bring your army friends to a restaurant who hates military people? He says our soldiers are the dumbest group of individuals in the world. Would you give him your money?

It is not democratic to vote on people's rights. We never voted for civil rights for blacks, we never voted for civil rights for women. Why do we vote for civil rights for gays? It's idiotic.

So remind me, how do you feel about protests in front of abortion clinics? Of outing Doctors that preform abortions? Of boycotts on said doctors and clinics?

Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's comparable in that rights are being denied an entire class of people based on another class of people's beliefs.

No, gays have not been enslaved and for that I am eternally grateful.

But to this day, I am denied the right to join the military, to adopt a child, to marry the woman I love, I can be denied housing, I can be denied a job, I can be kept from appointing my beloved the right to have decisions over my health.

All because a class of people believe, my "lifestyle" is corrupt.

BaC, I applaud you man and I think you're right.
There are times that the only way to end inequality is to stand up and say, "No. Not this time. Not anymore."

This is one of those times.

You are NOT denied the right to join the military. You are denied the right to use the military as a political statement. Gays have always served in the military and continue to this day. They just don't tell anyone.

You can not legally be denied housing, medical care or a job for being Gay. If you are and can prove it you will win in court.

And you can in fact create legal documents that give you power to make medical decisions for your mate.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

BaC your not seriously comparing the gay marriage issue with the civil rights struggles that African Americans and many hispanics still go through today are you? I'm sorry while on a personal level I could care less what gay couples do one way or the other, there is no way the issues in the gay community in my mind would ever rise to the same level of those struggles that many ethnic people had to endure in the United States . While I understand the on a base level why your trying to compare the two, forgive me but this issue in no way rises to anywhere near that level. It is in fact the gay communitys efforts to have society conform to a set of norms they deem to be acceptable , when at this point in time in Ca. and other places they don't deem it acceptable and it really is that simple.

As always, I tremendously appreciate your thoughts.

I'm not gay my brother .. thus, I make no assumptions about how deeply this issue affects them, nor do I believe It's necessary that their struggles have to meet criteria set by the struggles of others. I believe the same thing about the struggles of women in this country. I'm not a woman, but I understand injustice.

I also understand that gays were on the froint lines in the struggles of African-Americans and I take every opportunity to remind blacks of that fact because we are homophobic stupid as hell .. spawned by religion.

Gays are in a position to demand an end to injustice, an injustice that does not require one to be gay to understand .. and I fully support their right to demand.

Unfortunately, Americans are wimps and we should have demanded and found the mechanisms to demand, long before we found ourselves in the mess we are in today.

The right to demand is detailed fully in the Declaration of Independence.

Citizens demand

 

[Sunni Man]

Citizens demand

And their demand was rejected by the majority of voters!!

 

[tresha]

You are NOT denied the right to join the military. You are denied the right to use the military as a political statement. Gays have always served in the military and continue to this day. They just don't tell anyone.

You can not legally be denied housing, medical care or a job for being Gay. If you are and can prove it you will win in court.

And you can in fact create legal documents that give you power to make medical decisions for your mate.

Since I am quite open about my sexuality and have been for many years, even if I didn't announce it during a recruitment interview, there is no way I could pass a background investigation, because me being queer would be "discovered".

Yes, yes I can.
Well, not medical care, but then I didn't say that. I can be denied a job for being gay or fired from a job for being gay. Happens all the time. It's very rare that one is told they are being denied a job or fired for that reason.

Yes, you're right, I can create legal documents that give medical power of attorney to my mate. (Very much appreciate your use of that term. Very respectful)
However, these documents can be challenged by "legal next-of-kin".
In my case, that would be my parents; neither of whom I've seen or talked to in 4 or 7 years.
But they could claim first rights over me instead of the woman I've lived with for 3+ years.
I've had a lot of health problems. My Sweetie and I have discussed extensively what I'd like done.
But since there is no existing law that gives her rights above all others, my family of origin can trump my wishes and by extent, my rights.

Without an existing law, such as allowing us to marry or civil union or what the hell ever, it would be up to the discretion of a judge.

Hell, here in Texas, a straight couple just shacking up can call themselves married and have more rights than me.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

It's comparable in that rights are being denied an entire class of people based on another class of people's beliefs.

No, gays have not been enslaved and for that I am eternally grateful.

But to this day, I am denied the right to join the military, to adopt a child, to marry the woman I love, I can be denied housing, I can be denied a job, I can be kept from appointing my beloved the right to have decisions over my health.

All because a class of people believe, my "lifestyle" is corrupt.

BaC, I applaud you man and I think you're right.
There are times that the only way to end inequality is to stand up and say, "No. Not this time. Not anymore."

This is one of those times.

Thank you .. your day will come .. real soon.

 

[Ravi]

Any man or woman can marry in the state of California at anytime Ravi so how are any rights being abridged? More so that depends on if you consider the gay community a minority that is subject to that status which I clearly do not. Each and every person within the gay community enjoys rights under the constitution that any other American enjoys, the lifestyle they choose to live places them in the status they are in and therefor that choice precludes them from acting upon privliedges that they clearly can exercise at anytime should they so choose.

I disagree with you, but I'm sure there will be a lot of tussling over the issue in the coming months. I always like to think about these issues substituting a different minority group...now it's the Republicans. If Florida wouldn't let Republicans marry they'd also be violating the US Constitution, even though the Republicans would be free to marry someone of another political party.

 

[Red Dawn]

You are NOT denied the right to join the military. You are denied the right to use the military as a political statement. Gays have always served in the military and continue to this day. They just don't tell anyone.

You can not legally be denied housing, medical care or a job for being Gay. If you are and can prove it you will win in court.

And you can in fact create legal documents that give you power to make medical decisions for your mate.

Why do you keep pulling things out of your ass that aren't true.

There are no federal anti-gay discrmination laws, for housing, employment, or otherwise. Its true, that some enlightened, liberal, and blue states have state anti-discrimination laws pertaining to gays. But, there is no equivalent nationally, and thus they don't have the same constitutional rights you enjoy.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why do you keep pulling things out of your ass that aren't true.

There are no federal anti-gay discrmination laws, for housing, employment, or otherwise. Its true, that some enlightened, liberal, and blue states have state anti-discrimination laws pertaining to gays. But, there is no equivalent nationally, and thus they don't have the same constitutional rights you enjoy.

Wrong. If someone openly states you are denied these things because you are gay they will lose in court. Why? Because the gay person has all the same rights as the straight. If you can prove you were denied housing or a job, or fired from a job for being gay you win in court, EVERY WHERE.