Boycott Israel

[Hollie]

Settler colonialism is well defined in academic circles. It has yet to find its way into international law. However, most of the tenets of settler colonialism are already addressed by international law.

• Settler colonialism is inherently aggressive. People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force.
• Land theft/conquest violate the right to territorial integrity.
• Self determination and sovereignty are violated.
• Apartheid is necessary to divide us from them, from the superior and the inferior.
• Ethnic cleansing remove the natives to be replaced by colonial settlers.

​

The history of Islamic war, rapine and conquest.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
SUBTOPIC: Colonialism and Aggression
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Yes, this is a fallback argument. But is it sound and valid? No

Settler colonialism is well defined in academic circles. It has yet to find its way into international law.

(COMMENT)

So, even you have come to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinian complaint is NOT grounded in law.

The arguments are really based on some skewed ethical and moral concepts. But I submit that ethical and moral concepts can vary between ethnicities and cultures.

Whether it be the practice of stoning women to death • by ISIS • or a pregnant woman in Pakistan stoned to death by members of her own family, for marrying the man she loved. This is just as outrageous as a woman stoned to death in a Taliban-controlled area of Afghanistan after eloping with a man. These acts, seen as barbaric and exceptionally cruel in the West, are perfectly acceptable to be done in the open by Islamic cultures.​

Using the argument that "academics" find ANY practice as acceptable or unacceptable is foolish indeed. The thoughts from academic circles are teaching exercises and not the basis for the prosecution of a conflict.

• Settler colonialism is inherently aggressive. People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force.
• Land theft/conquest violate the right to territorial integrity.
• Self determination and sovereignty are violated.
• Apartheid is necessary to divide us from them, from the superior and the inferior.
• Ethnic cleansing remove the natives to be replaced by colonial settlers.

(COMMENT)

Responses to the Five Points:

◈ The use of settlers and the act of migrations have been a practice for many thousands of years. The use of "military force" - whether it be in the Crimea or the South China Sea - never really comes to an end.​

​

◈ "Territorial Integrity" has to do with sovereign control and NOT ownership of the land. Conversely, the "theft of land" has nothing to do with sovereign control.​

​

◈ All peoples have the right to self-determination; Israeli and Arab alike. You cannot use the"Right of Self-Determination" as a reasoning for a conflict, as the principles of "Self-Determination" can be used by both sides in the conflict. "Self-Determination" is a concept, NOT law. Self-Determination is not something you can violate. On the other hand, sovereignty is a matter of exercising control (key) by an independent and self-governing entity (also key). If an entity claims sovereignty, then it is saying it is holding independence and the extension of law over a self-governing territory - not controlled by any other entity.​

​

◈ Apartheid has nothing to do with the Israelis control of its borders and the defense of its sovereign integrity. You cannot claim that the territorial control of any nation is a matter of "Apartheid." That is simply foolish and absurd.​

​

◈ Ethnic Cleansing is a matter of intent. Israel has more diversity than any of the adjacent Arab League states.​

The attempt to convey the ideas these claims are sound, valid, and rooted in law is a deliberate attempt at deception.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
SUBTOPIC: Colonialism and Aggression
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Yes, this is a fallback argument. But is it sound and valid? No


(COMMENT)

So, even you have come to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinian complaint is NOT grounded in law.

The arguments are really based on some skewed ethical and moral concepts. But I submit that ethical and moral concepts can vary between ethnicities and cultures.

Whether it be the practice of stoning women to death • by ISIS • or a pregnant woman in Pakistan stoned to death by members of her own family, for marrying the man she loved. This is just as outrageous as a woman stoned to death in a Taliban-controlled area of Afghanistan after eloping with a man. These acts, seen as barbaric and exceptionally cruel in the West, are perfectly acceptable to be done in the open by Islamic cultures.​

Using the argument that "academics" find ANY practice as acceptable or unacceptable is foolish indeed. The thoughts from academic circles are teaching exercises and not the basis for the prosecution of a conflict.

(COMMENT)

Responses to the Five Points:

◈ The use of settlers and the act of migrations have been a practice for many thousands of years. The use of "military force" - whether it be in the Crimea or the South China Sea - never really comes to an end.​

​

◈ "Territorial Integrity" has to do with sovereign control and NOT ownership of the land. Conversely, the "theft of land" has nothing to do with sovereign control.​

​

◈ All peoples have the right to self-determination; Israeli and Arab alike. You cannot use the"Right of Self-Determination" as a reasoning for a conflict, as the principles of "Self-Determination" can be used by both sides in the conflict. "Self-Determination" is a concept, NOT law. Self-Determination is not something you can violate. On the other hand, sovereignty is a matter of exercising control (key) by an independent and self-governing entity (also key). If an entity claims sovereignty, then it is saying it is holding independence and the extension of law over a self-governing territory - not controlled by any other entity.​

​

◈ Apartheid has nothing to do with the Israelis control of its borders and the defense of its sovereign integrity. You cannot claim that the territorial control of any nation is a matter of "Apartheid." That is simply foolish and absurd.​

​

◈ Ethnic Cleansing is a matter of intent. Israel has more diversity than any of the adjacent Arab League states.​

The attempt to convey the ideas these claims are sound, valid, and rooted in law is a deliberate attempt at deception.

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy balderdash, Batman! You sure can smokescreen issues.

◈ "Territorial Integrity" has to do with sovereign control and NOT ownership of the land. Conversely, the "theft of land" has nothing to do with sovereign control.

Palestine is a territory defined by international borders. Territorial integrity means that nobody can encroach on that territory.

BTW, military control does not equal sovereign control.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Palestine is a territory defined by international borders.

That's awesome!!

Who do they have border agreements with?

When were these borders defined? Who defined them?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Exiled Iranian judoka Saeid Mollaei dedicated his medal to the State of Israel after winning the silver medal at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics.

"This medal is also dedicated to Israel, and I hope the Israelis are happy with this achievement," Mollaei said upon receiving his medal on Tuesday.

Mollaei made headlines after he ignored Iranian officials’ demands to withdraw from the World Judo Championships in order to avoid competing against an Israeli.

(full article online)

Exiled Iranian judoka dedicates Olympic medal to Israel

Saeid Mollaei, who criticized Iranian practice of not facing Israelis in sports, wins silver medal in Tokyo Olympics.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[Hollie]

Holy balderdash, Batman! You sure can smokescreen issues.

Palestine is a territory defined by international borders. Territorial integrity means that nobody can encroach on that territory.

BTW, military control does not equal sovereign control.

If territorial integrity means that nobody can encroach on that territory, I'm glad you're willing to condemn in the strongest terms the Pally islamic terrorists violation of Israel's territorial integrity.

BTW, military control does not equal sovereign control.

Please draft an email noting the above to be forwarded to the UN for their opinion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That's awesome!!

Who do they have border agreements with?

When were these borders defined? Who defined them?

You really don't want to know but I will post something you won't read anyway.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Introduction This paper addresses the status of the inhabitants of the territory that has become known as ‘Palestine’ and that had been part of the Ottoman Empire since 1516, during the period star...

journals.openedition.org

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
SUBTOPIC: Colonialism and Aggression
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: And I've seen your "Smoke Screen Diversion many times.

Holy balderdash, Batman! You sure can smokescreen issues.

Palestine is a territory defined by international borders. Territorial integrity means that nobody can encroach on that territory.

BTW, military control does not equal sovereign control.

(COMMENT)

There are no international borders for and nation called Palestine (State of).

And I agree, Military control or occupation does not equal (≠) sovereign. But it can be evidence that the Arab Palestinians do not have sovereign control and never have sovereign control.

In fact, the Arrab Palestinians rejected the establishment of self-governing institutions.

And you cannot use the Treaty of Lausanne as the authority behind the establishment of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

If territorial integrity means that nobody can encroach on that territory, I'm glad you're willing to condemn in the strongest terms the Pally islamic terrorists violation of Israel's territorial integrity.

BTW, military control does not equal sovereign control.

Please draft an email noting the above to be forwarded to the UN for their opinion.

Post a map of Israel that does not have those fake border armistice lines then let's discuss.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You really don't want to know but I will post something you won't read anyway.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Introduction This paper addresses the status of the inhabitants of the territory that has become known as ‘Palestine’ and that had been part of the Ottoman Empire since 1516, during the period star...

journals.openedition.org

The unilaterally drawn border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan had been thus confirmed.13 On 22 March 1946, after concluding a treaty of alliance with Britain (enforced on 17 June 1946), Trans-Jordan declared its independence as a state.14 And the lengthiest section of Palestine’s border had been settled.

Unilaterally?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You really don't want to know but I will post something you won't read anyway.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Introduction This paper addresses the status of the inhabitants of the territory that has become known as ‘Palestine’ and that had been part of the Ottoman Empire since 1516, during the period star...

journals.openedition.org

Thanks for the link......


The Treaty of Lausanne, including its nationality rules, remained legally binding and effectively applicable throughout the mandate period until 14 May 1948. For instance, the Bon Voisinage Agreement between Syria and Palestine of 1926, mentioned above, stipulated in Article 10 that the nationality of inhabitants living near Syrian and Lebanese border could be determined, should any conflict arise, in accordance with Articles 30-6 of the Treaty.

What does this mean?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are no international borders for and nation called Palestine (State of).

Look at the legend.

http://www.mideastweb.org/palestine_partition_detail_map1947.jpg

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
SUBTOPIC: Colonialism and Aggression
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: By my calculations, you waited 3 months before you asked for this again.

1. [IMG alt="RoccoR"]https://www.usmessageboard.com/data/avatars/s/25/25033.jpg?1624674647[/IMG]
   

   Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.​

   RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews. SUBTOPIC: Boundaries ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al, BLUF: Well, I guess that it is a good thing that Customary International Law says that don't need your interpretation of the real ground truth. (COMMENT) Whether or not YOU (and the rest of the Arab...
   • RoccoR. Post #1,356. Apr 13, 2021. Forum: Israel and Palestine

(POSTING as REQUESTED)

Most Respectfully,
R

Notes on current recognized boundaries:

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •

◈ Golan Heights Law •

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •

◈ Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) (1993)

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) (1995) •

◈ Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon (2000) •

ARTICLE V • Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (1993)
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS
1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.

2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.

3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.

4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
SUBTOPIC: Colonialism and Aggression
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: By my calculations, you waited 3 months before you asked for this again.

1. [IMG alt="RoccoR"]https://www.usmessageboard.com/data/avatars/s/25/25033.jpg?1624674647[/IMG]
   

   Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.​

   RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews. SUBTOPIC: Boundaries ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al, BLUF: Well, I guess that it is a good thing that Customary International Law says that don't need your interpretation of the real ground truth. (COMMENT) Whether or not YOU (and the rest of the Arab...
   • RoccoR. Post #1,356. Apr 13, 2021. Forum: Israel and Palestine

(POSTING as REQUESTED)

View attachment 517892

Most Respectfully,
R

Notes on current recognized boundaries:

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •

◈ Golan Heights Law •

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •

◈ Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) (1993)

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) (1995) •

◈ Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon (2000) •

ARTICLE V • Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (1993)
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS
1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.

2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.

3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.

4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.

Israel's smoke and mirrors about its borders.

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

Israel gained recognition in 1948 by accepting the UN Partition borders of 1947, but has negated those borders since. But any partition of the land must reflect that division…

mondoweiss.net

This is key.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations. This is not correct. The UN does not have authority under its Charter to create or divide states. The Partition Plan was a recommendation only. The Plan envisaged a process, starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Look at the legend.

http://www.mideastweb.org/palestine_partition_detail_map1947.jpg

That was an excellent proposal.....what ever happened with it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel's smoke and mirrors about its borders.

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

Israel gained recognition in 1948 by accepting the UN Partition borders of 1947, but has negated those borders since. But any partition of the land must reflect that division…

mondoweiss.net

This is key.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations. This is not correct. The UN does not have authority under its Charter to create or divide states. The Partition Plan was a recommendation only. The Plan envisaged a process, starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)​

True borders? Are the legally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan somehow false?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)​

True borders? Are the legally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan somehow false?

Indeed.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Let me see, Tinmore is again dragging an issue to a thread it does not belong.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Indeed.

Why are the legally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan false?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Why are the legally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan false?

What does it have to do with Boycotting Israel?