Boycott Israel

[Synthaholic]

The pro-Israel lobby is on the decline; let’s help it on its way

*snip*

The first came from Jonathan Schanzer, of the Foundation for Defence of Democracies: “Anti-Semitism as a smear is not what it used to be,” he was caught admitting. The lobby constantly defames Palestinians and their supporters as motivated by racism against Jews, so it’s actually refreshing to see one of the lobby admit – albeit in private – that they cynically abuse the issue as a “smear” campaign.

Secondly, and most ominously for the lobby, a former lobbyist for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, said that, “The foundation that AIPAC sat on is rotting.” This was a recognition by Eric Gallagher of the historical trends at play right now.

The influence of AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobby groups is on the wane because Israel itself is becoming more of a partisan party political issue, rather than the bi-partisan consensus issue that it far too often was for politicians in the past. In other words, you are far more likely to support Israel if you are a Trump voter or a Boris Johnson voter, than if you are a Bernie Sanders or a Jeremy Corbyn voter.

A typical anti semitic rant. The Democratic Party has lost touch with its roots and core values and you want to blame the Jews for it.

Why are you bringing Jews into it?

lol Dumb as a Democrat.

So you have no intelligent response? I’m not surprised.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The pro-Israel lobby is on the decline; let’s help it on its way

*snip*

The first came from Jonathan Schanzer, of the Foundation for Defence of Democracies: “Anti-Semitism as a smear is not what it used to be,” he was caught admitting. The lobby constantly defames Palestinians and their supporters as motivated by racism against Jews, so it’s actually refreshing to see one of the lobby admit – albeit in private – that they cynically abuse the issue as a “smear” campaign.

Secondly, and most ominously for the lobby, a former lobbyist for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, said that, “The foundation that AIPAC sat on is rotting.” This was a recognition by Eric Gallagher of the historical trends at play right now.

The influence of AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobby groups is on the wane because Israel itself is becoming more of a partisan party political issue, rather than the bi-partisan consensus issue that it far too often was for politicians in the past. In other words, you are far more likely to support Israel if you are a Trump voter or a Boris Johnson voter, than if you are a Bernie Sanders or a Jeremy Corbyn voter.

A typical anti semitic rant. The Democratic Party has lost touch with its roots and core values and you want to blame the Jews for it.

Why are you bringing Jews into it?

lol Dumb as a Democrat.

So you have no intelligent response? I’m not surprised.

An intelligent response to nonsense?

 

[P F Tinmore]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

 

[toomuchtime_]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

 

[Hollie]

‘BDS Fail’ in South Africa as Pro-Boycott Lobby Abandons National Campaign Against Israeli Company’s Takeover of Local Dairy Giant

The influential lobby in South Africa advocating a boycott of the State of Israel was forced into a climbdown this week, as it abandoned plans for an ambitious protest campaign against the takeover of local dairy giant Clover Industries by a Tel Aviv-based consortium.

 

[Hollie]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

Don’t worry about it. Continue to flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Dozens of radical left-wing demonstrators attempted to disrupt a lecture by Regavim’s international spokesperson at an event hosted in London Sunday night by UKLFI Charitable Trust. The London Metropolitan Police secured the event, and kept the demonstrators from disrupting the evening’s program.

Naomi Kahn, Director of Regavim’s International Division, delivered a presentation that detailed the extent and effects of European Union support for illegal Palestinian Authority-orchestrated activities in Judea and Samaria.

The event, originally scheduled for early September, had been postponed due to security concerns: A number of BDS and other anti-Israel groups threatened to hold mass protests against Regavim and the UKLFI hosts, and the possibility of violence led to postponement of the event in order to allow appropriate security measures to be put in place.

Apparently, those concerns were well-founded. Sunday night’s event, attended by dozens of Israel supporters, lawyers, and influential members of the London Jewish and non-Jewish community, was similarly targeted by various anti-Israel groups, and the London Police had a busy evening securing the venue and ensuring that the protests remained peaceful and the event uninterrupted.

(full article online)

London: Anti-Israel protest turns threatening

 

[Sixties Fan]

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/is...-vehicle-and-solar-energy-markets/2019/12/02/

 

[toomuchtime_]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

If you were capable of seeing them as people rather than just as a people, a tool to be used against Israel, you would not ask such a stupid question. They cannot prosper without interacting with the Israeli economy, but the PA and Hamas restricts business dealings with Israel and celebrates the murders of random Jews keeping the people impoverished and their freedom to travel limited.

 

[Shusha]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

It means fully recognizing Israel's right to self-determination, alongside Arab Palestine's right to self-determination. It means creating a boundary or two to delineate land which is for the one and that which is for the other. It means deciding how access to the holy places for both peoples is going to work. It means deciding on, and limiting, on both sides the "right of return" so each peoples can maintain the character of their self-determination.

 

[toomuchtime_]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

It means fully recognizing Israel's right to self-determination, alongside Arab Palestine's right to self-determination. It means creating a boundary or two to delineate land which is for the one and that which is for the other. It means deciding how access to the holy places for both peoples is going to work. It means deciding on, and limiting, on both sides the "right of return" so each peoples can maintain the character of their self-determination.

No, it doesn't. As a practical matter the possibility of a Palestinian state is dead. Pretending it is still a possibility is a formula for continued conflict and endless suffering for the Arabs in the territories. The belief that a Palestinian state could live in peace next to Israel died with the second intifada. It died a second time when Sharon tried to breathe life into it with the withdrawal from Gaza and the terrorists quickly took over and made war on Israel. It died for the third and final time when Abbas refused to respond to Olmert's offer which was far more than any reasonable Palestinian leader could have hoped for. Netanyahu has offered them autonomy and Trump has offered them prosperity, and they have rejected both in favor of the status quo, unending conflict. As a practical matter, peace with Israel means thinking of themselves primarily as people who want to live safe, prosperous lives instead of a people who want to die for something that is not possible.

 

[Shusha]

As a practical matter, peace with Israel means thinking of themselves primarily as people who want to live safe, prosperous lives instead of a people who want to die for something that is not possible.

Alright, I agree with that.

So, you think Israel should incorporate the Arab Palestinians into Israel and take them on as citizens? Just wondering what you think the outcome should look like.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As a practical matter, peace with Israel means thinking of themselves primarily as people who want to live safe, prosperous lives instead of a people who want to die for something that is not possible.

Alright, I agree with that.

So, you think Israel should incorporate the Arab Palestinians into Israel and take them on as citizens? Just wondering what you think the outcome should look like.

That is a false dichotomy. The actual circumstances don't allow a Palestinians state or incorporating the Arabs in the territories into Israel. By promoting this false dichotomy you are promoting more conflict and violence. The present situation in which they have autonomy within specified borders is the very best they can hope for, and if they accept this, they can lead very safe and prosperous lives - this is what the Jews had hoped for under the Mandate.

For decades, the argument has been, we've got to give the Arabs hope or they will go crazy, but the truth is giving them false hope is what drives them crazy. By continuing to think of them as a people rather than just as people, you do everyone, Israelis and Arabs, a disservice.

 

[Shusha]

As a practical matter, peace with Israel means thinking of themselves primarily as people who want to live safe, prosperous lives instead of a people who want to die for something that is not possible.

Alright, I agree with that.

So, you think Israel should incorporate the Arab Palestinians into Israel and take them on as citizens? Just wondering what you think the outcome should look like.

That is a false dichotomy. The actual circumstances don't allow a Palestinians state or incorporating the Arabs in the territories into Israel. By promoting this false dichotomy you are promoting more conflict and violence. The present situation in which they have autonomy within specified borders is the very best they can hope for, and if they accept this, they can lead very safe and prosperous lives - this is what the Jews had hoped for under the Mandate.

For decades, the argument has been, we've got to give the Arabs hope or they will go crazy, but the truth is giving them false hope is what drives them crazy. By continuing to think of them as a people rather than just as people, you do everyone, Israelis and Arabs, a disservice.

I'm not actually creating or promoting any dichotomy, false or not. I'm ASKING you what you think the final outcome will look like.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As a practical matter, peace with Israel means thinking of themselves primarily as people who want to live safe, prosperous lives instead of a people who want to die for something that is not possible.

Alright, I agree with that.

So, you think Israel should incorporate the Arab Palestinians into Israel and take them on as citizens? Just wondering what you think the outcome should look like.

That is a false dichotomy. The actual circumstances don't allow a Palestinians state or incorporating the Arabs in the territories into Israel. By promoting this false dichotomy you are promoting more conflict and violence. The present situation in which they have autonomy within specified borders is the very best they can hope for, and if they accept this, they can lead very safe and prosperous lives - this is what the Jews had hoped for under the Mandate.

For decades, the argument has been, we've got to give the Arabs hope or they will go crazy, but the truth is giving them false hope is what drives them crazy. By continuing to think of them as a people rather than just as people, you do everyone, Israelis and Arabs, a disservice.

I'm not actually creating or promoting any dichotomy, false or not. I'm ASKING you what you think the final outcome will look like.

Of course you are stating a false dichotomy; you asking proposing there are only two choices, two states or incorporate the Arabs into Israel, but there is at least one more choice, continue with the status quo. In other words, we already have the final outcome. It may not be as pretty as you would like, but since no other outcome is possible, it is the final outcome.

 

[Shusha]

Of course you are stating a false dichotomy; you asking proposing there are only two choices, two states or incorporate the Arabs into Israel, but there is at least one more choice, continue with the status quo. In other words, we already have the final outcome. It may not be as pretty as you would like, but since no other outcome is possible, it is the final outcome.

No, I am not insisting there are only two choices. I suggested one choice and ASKED you what you thought the final outcome will be. (Also see all the pinned threads up top and my contributions. All sorts of ideas there.)

I am open to all sorts of choices here, including some sort of "status quo". Personally, I think the status quo is sustainable for a bit longer, but not indefinitely. Events, driven by people, are likely to overtake the status quo. Its easy to see the ways in which it is already.

Gaza, pushing for re-entry into Israel, rather than "end the blockade". That is a shift.
Israel pushing for further Jewish settlement and annexations. That is a shift.
US encouraging recognition of Israel and settlements. That is a shift.
Israelis demanding a stronger response to Gaza's rockets and violence. Shift.
Iran. Shift.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Of course you are stating a false dichotomy; you asking proposing there are only two choices, two states or incorporate the Arabs into Israel, but there is at least one more choice, continue with the status quo. In other words, we already have the final outcome. It may not be as pretty as you would like, but since no other outcome is possible, it is the final outcome.

No, I am not insisting there are only two choices. I suggested one choice and ASKED you what you thought the final outcome will be. (Also see all the pinned threads up top and my contributions. All sorts of ideas there.)

I am open to all sorts of choices here, including some sort of "status quo". Personally, I think the status quo is sustainable for a bit longer, but not indefinitely. Events, driven by people, are likely to overtake the status quo. Its easy to see the ways in which it is already.

Gaza, pushing for re-entry into Israel, rather than "end the blockade". That is a shift.
Israel pushing for further Jewish settlement and annexations. That is a shift.
US encouraging recognition of Israel and settlements. That is a shift.
Israelis demanding a stronger response to Gaza's rockets and violence. Shift.
Iran. Shift.

Lots of things are changing, but none of them would seem to impact the status quo because there is no other viable solution. The only real change in the status quo since 1967 is that Israel has given the Arabs in the territories a measure of autonomy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A BDS Campaign Tackles the Sports Industry in Portland — and Wins

lol Wins what? How stupid do you have to be to imagine this helps the so called Palestinians in any way? The only possible way to improve the lives of the Palestinians is to make peace with Israel.

make peace with Israel.

What does that mean?

It means fully recognizing Israel's right to self-determination, alongside Arab Palestine's right to self-determination. It means creating a boundary or two to delineate land which is for the one and that which is for the other. It means deciding how access to the holy places for both peoples is going to work. It means deciding on, and limiting, on both sides the "right of return" so each peoples can maintain the character of their self-determination.

It means creating a boundary or two to delineate land which is for the one and that which is for the other.

There is no legal requirement to divide Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

Of course you are stating a false dichotomy; you asking proposing there are only two choices, two states or incorporate the Arabs into Israel, but there is at least one more choice, continue with the status quo. In other words, we already have the final outcome. It may not be as pretty as you would like, but since no other outcome is possible, it is the final outcome.

No, I am not insisting there are only two choices. I suggested one choice and ASKED you what you thought the final outcome will be. (Also see all the pinned threads up top and my contributions. All sorts of ideas there.)

I am open to all sorts of choices here, including some sort of "status quo". Personally, I think the status quo is sustainable for a bit longer, but not indefinitely. Events, driven by people, are likely to overtake the status quo. Its easy to see the ways in which it is already.

Gaza, pushing for re-entry into Israel, rather than "end the blockade". That is a shift.
Israel pushing for further Jewish settlement and annexations. That is a shift.
US encouraging recognition of Israel and settlements. That is a shift.
Israelis demanding a stronger response to Gaza's rockets and violence. Shift.
Iran. Shift.

Lots of things are changing, but none of them would seem to impact the status quo because there is no other viable solution. The only real change in the status quo since 1967 is that Israel has given the Arabs in the territories a measure of autonomy.

The status quo is not a viable solution. Its a balance point in the tension of the conflict.

If we wanted to create a viable solution based on something similar to the status quo, we might go with an Emirates or City-States solution, with limited self-autonomy for the Arabs. Or it might look like the agreements between Canada and some of the semi-autonomous First Nations.

Not rejecting any of these ideas by any means. But not quite the same things as that "status quo".

AND, you know someone is going to scream, "Bantustans!" and while they are wrong about that -- we need to have a very, very solid articulation of why they are not.