Both Sides of the Gun Debate Need to Listen to This

[alang1216]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

 

[Pop23]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

Or, another criminal.

Doubling down on nonsense just = nonsense x 2.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care

Okay, you are a certified idiot who knows nothing about guns. I am done with you.

Straw Purchasing | Dontlie.org

Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

• An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
• An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
• Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

 

[Pop23]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care

Okay, you are a certified idiot who knows nothing about guns. I am done with you.

Straw Purchasing | Dontlie.org

Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

• An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
• An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
• Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

His whole argument is to simply create enough rules and regulations that it creates a barrier to the free exercise of a “right”.

I think it would be wise for him to understand that, creating barriers of this kind has already been proven unconstitutionally many times.

Poll Taxes
Same Sex Marriage

But he will continue.

He’s had his butt kicked on

Cars require registration, why not guns? Cuz cars don’t

You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater! Ah, yes you can, when there actually is one.

And now this.

Maybe he’ll come up with something interesting at some point.......

But I doubt it.

 

[alang1216]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care

Okay, you are a certified idiot who knows nothing about guns. I am done with you.

Straw Purchasing | Dontlie.org

Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

• An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
• An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
• Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

Gun show loophole

 

[Pop23]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care

Okay, you are a certified idiot who knows nothing about guns. I am done with you.

Straw Purchasing | Dontlie.org

Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

• An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
• An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
• Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

Gun show loophole

Mostly a myth:

MILLER: The gun-show loophole myth

The 40 percent figure that Mr. Obama and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, California Democrat, cite so frequently comes from a 1997 Justice Department survey. A closer look at that 40 percent number reveals it includes 29 percent of gun owners who said they got their guns from family members or friends and acquaintances.

That leaves 11 percent of firearms obtained through unfamiliar people. Of these, 3 percent reported they got their firearms “through the mail,” a process that requires a background check from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Four percent said “other,” and 4 percent made their purchase at a gun show.

The “gun-show loophole” is an exaggeration designed to foster the false impression that this is how the bad guys acquire firearms. A 2001 Justice Department survey found 0.7 percent of state and federal prison inmates bought their weapons at a gun show.

Gun shows aren’t the equivalent of the Wild West. The vast majority of vendors at the shows are fully licensed dealers who must run the FBI check at the time of sale. What the gun grabbers are really after are transactions between private individuals trading or selling their personal property.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There is no provision for the state to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.

The right belongs to the people, to the person, to the individual as all rights do

When your right to a gun infringes on my right to life, the state has a right and duty to intervene.

But my owning a gun does not infringe on your right to life or any of your other rights.
The fact that I own guns in no way affects you and there is no proof that you can give to the contrary

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You may disagree with me but this country is my home and I have the right to protect my home and decide how it is run.

But, you don't have the right to infringe on HIS rights to do that.

When his rights conflict with my rights the state does have a right to intervene.

My exercising my right to keep and bear arms has absolutely no effect on you

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

 

[Skull Pilot]

Currently your right to an automatic weapon is infringed. Do you have a problem with that?

It really isn't

all you have to do is get a federal permit and pay an additional tax and anyone who can pass a background check to buy a rifle can get one

You need to think this through a little better. If you don't feel having to get a federal permit, pay an additional tax, and pass a background check are not restrictions you should have no issue with any other gun control measure.

Automatic weapons are minimally more restricted than any other firearm at best

and as I said anyone who can pass a background check to buy any firearm can get a permit to own an automatic weapon

 

[Skull Pilot]

Currently your right to an automatic weapon is infringed. Do you have a problem with that?

It really isn't

all you have to do is get a federal permit and pay an additional tax and anyone who can pass a background check to buy a rifle can get one

You need to think this through a little better. If you don't feel having to get a federal permit, pay an additional tax, and pass a background check are not restrictions you should have no issue with any other gun control measure.

I never said I agree with the restrictions I merely pointed out to you that automatic weapons are not as highly regulated as you think

 

[Skull Pilot]

how does my right to own a gun infringe on your right to life? Please explain...

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

do any of your current neighbors own firearms?

Do you feel safe in your current neighborhood knowing your neighbors own firearms?

I don't if any of them own guns or not so my ignorance is my bliss. I did meet one neighbor while walking the dog, and he was carrying a machete. He is a West Point grad and one of the finest people I know but no, I didn't feel any safer.

I ask this question of liberals but never get an answer.

If you are walking down the street, and you see me openly carrying my .45 S&W, M&P shield, and then you hear Allah ooh Akbar and a rag wearing, machete wielding terrorist coming at you, with intent to cut your head off, do you want me to walk away with my weapon, or pull it and use it in your defense?

Quite the hypothetical there but sure, please defend me.

See here's where the rubber meets the road when it comes to the rights of others.

I for one will not pull my weapon to defend you from a terrorist who wants to cut off your head.

Why? Because you made the choice not to exercise your right to keep and bear arms. You made the choice to leave your protection in the hands of the government and its law enforcement agencies.

I have so much respect for you and your rights that I would never presume to question you on that choice and would never force my choices upon you.

So if I see you getting the tar kicked out of you by some thugs or about to be beheaded by some terrorist I will call the police and an ambulance for you and hope you don't get killed before they show up.

And you should thank me for respecting your right to make your own decisions.

You're welcome by the way.

All I ask is that you reciprocate

 

[hunarcy]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

I don't guess you realize that it's against the law in MOST states to sell a firearm to someone who can't pass the background check. They don't seem to care about that, do they?

 

[2aguy]

Currently your right to an automatic weapon is infringed. Do you have a problem with that?

It really isn't

all you have to do is get a federal permit and pay an additional tax and anyone who can pass a background check to buy a rifle can get one

You need to think this through a little better. If you don't feel having to get a federal permit, pay an additional tax, and pass a background check are not restrictions you should have no issue with any other gun control measure.

The government's right to tax is not considered an infringement. However, I do think it should be abolished.

The ability to tax a Right is an infringement from the 14th Amendment created to address democrats taxing the Right to vote for blacks and the poor....and other taxes...Murdock v. Pennsylvania...

Murdoch v. Pennsylvania....you cannot tax the exercise of a Right.....which is why taxes on guns and ammo need to be abolished..

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)



4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.

5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.

6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.

7. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution, and exists independently of state authority, the inquiry as to whether the State has given something for which it can ask a return is irrelevant. P. 319 U. S. 115.

8. A community may not suppress, or the State tax, the dissemination of views because they are unpopular, annoying, or distasteful. P. 319 U. S. 116.

------

Page 319 U. S. 108



The First Amendment, which the Fourteenth makes applicable to the states, declares that

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ."

It could hardly be denied that a tax laid specifically on the exercise of those freedoms would be unconstitutional. Yet the license tax imposed by this ordinance is, in substance, just that.

Ah, so there should be no tax on fully automatic weapons. OK.

No..there shouldn't. Taxing the exercise of a Right, as detailed in the 14th Amendment and Murdoch v. Pennsylvania is unConstitutional......

 

[2aguy]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

I don't guess you realize that it's against the law in MOST states to sell a firearm to someone who can't pass the background check. They don't seem to care about that, do they?

We can arrest the actual felon who bought the gun illegally......we don't need to punish a law abiding citizen who is selling private property.

 

[2aguy]

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

The criminal might not care but the person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care.

person who would be tempted to sell to the criminal might care

Okay, you are a certified idiot who knows nothing about guns. I am done with you.

Straw Purchasing | Dontlie.org

Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

• An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
• An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
• Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

Gun show loophole

There is no gun show loophole, any federally licensed gun dealer has to do a background check no matter where they are located. Anyone can sell their privately owned gun without a background check....but a felon is already prohibited by law from buying a gun from anyone. We can already arrest the felon when we catch them with the illegal gun...and then democrats like you will just let them go....so they can get another illegal gun and murder another criminal or an innocent citizen.

 

[LuckyDuck]

and comments from both side are welcome

-Geaux

He gave a great speech and I agree with him with only one exception. Where he said that when a law is enacted to confiscate his right to bear arms, he would lawfully turn them in. That is the only area where he and I disagree. If they want my firearms, they will have to send in law enforcement/SWAT to get mine. They were "legally" purchased, no crime has ever been committed with them, the "right of the people to bear arms" was our nation's Second Amendment and our Federalist Papers made it clear, the reason we should have the weapons. So, if the come for them, they will only get the business end of them. If I die over it, I die defending my and fellow gun owners right under our Constitution and those who come for them are nothing more than traitors to that Constitution.

 

[OnePercenter]

Canada, as well as every other small penis average size countries have rational gun laws, why not the United States?

 

[2aguy]

Canada, as well as every other small penis average size countries have rational gun laws, why not the United States?

Canada has growing gun crime....we have gun crime that is going down....

Canada.....

Police can't explain increase in shootings in Toronto | CBC News

The two shootings come as Toronto is experiencing a year of increased gun violence, up 35 per cent from last year. The number of victims has also increased, up by 80 per cent over last August, according to police statistics.

Deputy Chief Peter Sloly can't say why there have been so many shootings this year, adding that he's noticed an uptick in gun violence across the country.

"It's a concerning trend we're seeing this year," Sloly told CBC News. "We've put extra resources on the street, we've got extra intelligence coming in, we have extra support from our communities."

But Mayor John Tory thinks he knows why the city is witnessing so much gun play.

"There's some level of gang activity involved," he said. "There is the illegal gun trade that continues to be a real problem especially when it comes to the Canada-U.S. border."


-----------
Firearms: Making sense of Toronto’s cycle of violence

The number of people killed or injured by guns in Toronto so far this year is already higher than 2014, reversing a recent downward trend. But while gun violence appears to be going up in Ontario’s capital, criminologists say this apparent increase in gun violence doesn’t necessarily mean the city is becoming more dangerous.
This week alone, there have been seven shootings over a span of four days, two of them fatal, Toronto Police spokeswoman Caroline de Kloet said Friday.

********

Mr. Pugash said the number of shooting events this year – 162, as of Aug. 20 – is now on par with the number on the same date in 2012, the year police previously noted a spike in gun violence.


Police don’t know the reasons behind this year’s increase, Mr. Pugash said, and it’s an issue that could be impacted by an “infinite number of factors.”


http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/15/torontos-gun-crime-stats-have-spiked

TORONTO - Welcome to Toronto’s Summer of the Gun 2015.

It’s a headline neither Toronto Police nor city hall want to see.

There is no question statistics can be made to look a lot of different ways, but some statistics are just plain ugly.

Scary, actually.

For example, 36 more people have been shot so far this year in Toronto than at this point last year.

Toronto Police statistics show a 90% increase in people wounded by gunfire and a 48% increase in shootings (135 compared to 91).

And there have been 106 more shooting victims (those hit by gunfire, as well as those victimized by it).

In fact, the 227 shooting victims so far this year is 31 more than the total for all of 2014.

It’s true not all shooting victims have been hit by gunfire, but as Deputy Chief Peter Sloly points out, every gun shot, whether into the air or a tree, is one that could ricochet and strike an innocent victim like we saw in 2012 when a two-year-old was hit.

If you add the death and injury statistics, Toronto has seen 88 dead or wounded by gunfire in 2015 compared to 53 at this time last year. That’s a 66% increase.

It’s a big spike.

Shocking, horrifying numbers that seem to have just snuck up on us.

Many seem worried about the controversial carding issue, but these scary stats aren’t getting the same media attention. It doesn’t feel like a particularly violent summer, but the stats indicate otherwise.





And more, with stories...



'Brazen criminals' behind spike in Toronto gun crime, says deputy chief | CBC News



Another Canadian city with gun crime....



UPDATED: Why does Moncton have such high gun-crime rates?

United States....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[OnePercenter]

Canada, as well as every other small penis average size countries have rational gun laws, why not the United States?

Canada has growing gun crime....we have gun crime that is going down....

Canada.....

Police can't explain increase in shootings in Toronto | CBC News

The two shootings come as Toronto is experiencing a year of increased gun violence, up 35 per cent from last year. The number of victims has also increased, up by 80 per cent over last August, according to police statistics.

Deputy Chief Peter Sloly can't say why there have been so many shootings this year, adding that he's noticed an uptick in gun violence across the country.

"It's a concerning trend we're seeing this year," Sloly told CBC News. "We've put extra resources on the street, we've got extra intelligence coming in, we have extra support from our communities."

But Mayor John Tory thinks he knows why the city is witnessing so much gun play.

"There's some level of gang activity involved," he said. "There is the illegal gun trade that continues to be a real problem especially when it comes to the Canada-U.S. border."


-----------
Firearms: Making sense of Toronto’s cycle of violence

The number of people killed or injured by guns in Toronto so far this year is already higher than 2014, reversing a recent downward trend. But while gun violence appears to be going up in Ontario’s capital, criminologists say this apparent increase in gun violence doesn’t necessarily mean the city is becoming more dangerous.
This week alone, there have been seven shootings over a span of four days, two of them fatal, Toronto Police spokeswoman Caroline de Kloet said Friday.

********

Mr. Pugash said the number of shooting events this year – 162, as of Aug. 20 – is now on par with the number on the same date in 2012, the year police previously noted a spike in gun violence.


Police don’t know the reasons behind this year’s increase, Mr. Pugash said, and it’s an issue that could be impacted by an “infinite number of factors.”


Toronto Sun

TORONTO - Welcome to Toronto’s Summer of the Gun 2015.

It’s a headline neither Toronto Police nor city hall want to see.

There is no question statistics can be made to look a lot of different ways, but some statistics are just plain ugly.

Scary, actually.

For example, 36 more people have been shot so far this year in Toronto than at this point last year.

Toronto Police statistics show a 90% increase in people wounded by gunfire and a 48% increase in shootings (135 compared to 91).

And there have been 106 more shooting victims (those hit by gunfire, as well as those victimized by it).

In fact, the 227 shooting victims so far this year is 31 more than the total for all of 2014.

It’s true not all shooting victims have been hit by gunfire, but as Deputy Chief Peter Sloly points out, every gun shot, whether into the air or a tree, is one that could ricochet and strike an innocent victim like we saw in 2012 when a two-year-old was hit.

If you add the death and injury statistics, Toronto has seen 88 dead or wounded by gunfire in 2015 compared to 53 at this time last year. That’s a 66% increase.

It’s a big spike.

Shocking, horrifying numbers that seem to have just snuck up on us.

Many seem worried about the controversial carding issue, but these scary stats aren’t getting the same media attention. It doesn’t feel like a particularly violent summer, but the stats indicate otherwise.





And more, with stories...



'Brazen criminals' behind spike in Toronto gun crime, says deputy chief | CBC News



Another Canadian city with gun crime....



UPDATED: Why does Moncton have such high gun-crime rates?

United States....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Vegas. October 1, 2017, 58 dead, 500+ injured because it's more important to sell guns than to protect peoples lives.