H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
not that there is anything wrong with that
Boebert: "I'm tired of this separation of church and state junk".
- Thread starter Mac1958
- Start date
not that there is anything wrong with that
it is when the person isn’t one and you are just knowingly and intentionally lying about the person
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
Right.
We should amend the 1st Amendment to make Norse Paganism the national religion.
AMart
Diamond Member
- Dec 29, 2020
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- #24
Need more of the video, but Religious orgs should most certainly petition and try to influence government policy and positions. They certainly have a right to. Regarding the founders yeah;
| Religious Affiliation | # of signers | % of signers |
|---|---|---|
| Episcopalian/Anglican | 32 | 57.1% |
| Congregationalist | 13 | 23.2% |
| Presbyterian | 12 | 21.4% |
| Quaker | 2 | 3.6% |
| Unitarian or Universalist | 2 | 3.6% |
| Catholic | 1 | 1.8% |
| TOTAL | 56 | 100% |
Name of Signer | State | Religious Affiliation |
|---|---|---|
| Charles Carroll | Maryland | Catholic |
| Samuel Huntington | Connecticut | Congregationalist |
| Roger Sherman | Connecticut | Congregationalist |
| William Williams | Connecticut | Congregationalist |
| Oliver Wolcott | Connecticut | Congregationalist |
| Lyman Hall | Georgia | Congregationalist |
| Samuel Adams | Massachusetts | Congregationalist |
| John Hancock | Massachusetts | Congregationalist |
| Josiah Bartlett | New Hampshire | Congregationalist |
| William Whipple | New Hampshire | Congregationalist |
| William Ellery | Rhode Island | Congregationalist |
| John Adams | Massachusetts | Congregationalist; Unitarian |
| Robert Treat Paine | Massachusetts | Congregationalist; Unitarian |
| George Walton | Georgia | Episcopalian |
| John Penn | North Carolina | Episcopalian |
| George Ross | Pennsylvania | Episcopalian |
| Thomas Heyward Jr. | South Carolina | Episcopalian |
| Thomas Lynch Jr. | South Carolina | Episcopalian |
| Arthur Middleton | South Carolina | Episcopalian |
| Edward Rutledge | South Carolina | Episcopalian |
| Francis Lightfoot Lee | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| Richard Henry Lee | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| George Read | Delaware | Episcopalian |
| Caesar Rodney | Delaware | Episcopalian |
| Samuel Chase | Maryland | Episcopalian |
| William Paca | Maryland | Episcopalian |
| Thomas Stone | Maryland | Episcopalian |
| Elbridge Gerry | Massachusetts | Episcopalian |
| Francis Hopkinson | New Jersey | Episcopalian |
| Francis Lewis | New York | Episcopalian |
| Lewis Morris | New York | Episcopalian |
| William Hooper | North Carolina | Episcopalian |
| Robert Morris | Pennsylvania | Episcopalian |
| John Morton | Pennsylvania | Episcopalian |
| Stephen Hopkins | Rhode Island | Episcopalian |
| Carter Braxton | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| Benjamin Harrison | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| Thomas Nelson Jr. | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| George Wythe | Virginia | Episcopalian |
| Thomas Jefferson | Virginia | Episcopalian (Deist) |
| Benjamin Franklin | Pennsylvania | Episcopalian (Deist) |
| Button Gwinnett | Georgia | Episcopalian; Congregationalist |
| James Wilson | Pennsylvania | Episcopalian; Presbyterian |
| Joseph Hewes | North Carolina | Quaker, Episcopalian |
| George Clymer | Pennsylvania | Quaker, Episcopalian |
| Thomas McKean | Delaware | Presbyterian |
| Matthew Thornton | New Hampshire | Presbyterian |
| Abraham Clark | New Jersey | Presbyterian |
| John Hart | New Jersey | Presbyterian |
| Richard Stockton | New Jersey | Presbyterian |
| John Witherspoon | New Jersey | Presbyterian |
| William Floyd | New York | Presbyterian |
| Philip Livingston | New York | Presbyterian |
| James Smith | Pennsylvania | Presbyterian |
| George Taylor | Pennsylvania | Presbyterian |
| Benjamin Rush | Pennsylvania | Presbyterian |
i do love me some ThorRight.
We should amend the 1st Amendment to make Norse Paganism the national religion.
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
She is a troll. SCOTUS was right on the prayer case but extremists like her should be ignored.
Devils_Advocate
Diamond Member
Dems and holy rollers.....It would be nice to be shed of both.....That way maybe common sense would prevail.
Blah, maybe just take the 50-50 chance and see what happens.
View attachment 662999
Just a snap of the finger and poof the World could be made sane…
jehanne1431
Diamond Member
- Nov 7, 2018
- 1,238
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Platitudes and demagoguery, that is the specialty of a morally bankrupt LEFT.
You are talking insanity above. All many Christians are trying to do is fight the unconstitutional ruling of Roe v. Wade. Of course it does not bother you the least that there never was any legal argument for it. That is why the more honest players on the Supreme Court were compelled to rule properly. Christians wanted it worse than secular folks because we knew and we know it is the most vile and egregious sin against God, the creator of life. (Did I just lose you?)
And if Christianity wanted to be a nation of theocracy they could have done 100 years ago or 50 years ago. We don't want it. So quit lying.
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
Leo123
Diamond Member
- Aug 26, 2017
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- #32
In America we have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. IOW the government cannot dictate what religion people choose if any. Government has no say in religion. Boebert was basically saying that religion tells government to butt out. But then, the whole speech was not available either. IMO though, America was founded on Judeo Christian morals and values. The Founders used that as a basis for creating the Constitution but they did not specify a State religion.
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Missourian
Diamond Member
Deceptively edited...
Actual video quote at 3:30...
These leftist cannot be trusted.
They are liars.
Especially when it comes to strong conservative women.
Actual video quote at 3:30...
These leftist cannot be trusted.
They are liars.
Especially when it comes to strong conservative women.
H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
can you prove she was not one?
how about when you accuse someone of something…you prove it
Natural Citizen
American Made
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Relevant snip from a great book on the topic of the traditional American philosophy of governance...
"....all men are created...endowed by their Creator..." (Declaration of Independence)
The Principle
1. The fundamental principle underlying the traditional American philosophy is that the Spiritual is supreme--that Man is of Divine origin and his spiritual, or religious, nature is of supreme value and importance compared with things material.
Religious Nature
2. This governmental philosophy is, therefore, essentially religious in nature. It is uniquely American; no other people in all history have ever made this principle the basis of their governmental philosophy. The spiritual brotherhood of men under the common fatherhood of God is a concept which is basic to this American philosophy. It expresses the spiritual relationship of God to Man and, in the light thereof, of Man to Man. To forget these truths is a most heinous offense against the spirit of traditional America because the greatest sin is the lost consciousness of sin.
The fundamentally religious basis of this philosophy is the foundation of its moral code, which contemplates The Individual's moral duty as being created by God's Law: the Natural Law. The Individual's duty requires obedience to this Higher Law; while knowledge of this duty comes from conscience, which the religious-minded and morally-aware Individual feels duty-bound to heed. This philosophy asserts that there are moral absolutes: truths, such as those mentioned above, which are binding upon all Individuals at all times under all circumstances. This indicates some of the spiritual and moral values which are inherent in its concept of Individual Liberty-Responsibility.
An Indivisible Whole
3. The American philosophy, based upon this principle, is an indivisible whole and must be accepted or rejected as such. It cannot be treated piece-meal. Its fundamentals and its implicit meanings and obligations must be accepted together with its benefits.
The Individual's Self-respect
4. The concept of Man's spiritual nature, and the resulting concept of the supreme dignity and value of each Individual, provide the fundamental basis for each Individual's self-respect and the consequent mutual respect among Individual's. This self-respect as well as this mutual respect are the outgrowth of, and evidenced by, The Individual's maintenance of his God-given, unalienable rights. They are maintained by requiring that government and other Individuals respect them, as well as by his dedication to his own unceasing growth toward realization of his highest potential-- spiritually, morally, intellectually, in every aspect of life. This is in order that he may merit maximum respect by self and by others.
Some Things Excluded
5. This concept of Man's spiritual nature excludes any idea of intrusion by government into this Man-to-Man spiritual relationship. It excludes the anti-moral precept that the end justifies the means and the related idea that the means can be separated from the end when judging them morally. This concept therefore excludes necessarily any idea of attempting to do good by force--for instance, through coercion of Man by Government, whether or not claimed to be for his own good or for the so-called common good or general welfare.
It excludes disbelief in--even doubt as to the existence of--God as the Creator of Man: and therefore excludes all ideas, theories and schools of thought--however ethical and lofty in intentions--which reject affirmative and positive belief in God as Man's Creator.
The Truly American Concept
6. Only those ideas, programs and practices, regarding things governmental, which are consistent with the concept that "The Spiritual is supreme" can justly be claimed to be truly American traditionally. Anything and everything governmental, which is in conflict with this concept, is non-American--judged by traditional belief.
This applies particularly to that which is agnostic, or atheistic--neutral about, or hostile to, positive and affirmative belief in this concept based upon belief in God as Man's Creator. There is not room for doubt, much less disbelief, in this regard from the standpoint of the traditional American philosophy. Its indivisible nature makes this inescapably true. This pertains, of course, to the realm of ideas and not to any person; it is the conflicting idea which is classified as non-American, according to this philosophy.
America a Haven For All Religions
7. The traditional American philosophy teaches that belief in God is the fundamental link which unites the adherents of all religions in a spiritual brotherhood. This philosophy allows for no differentiation between them in this unifying conviction: ". . . all men are created . . . endowed by their Creator . . ." This philosophy is all inclusive as to believers in God. Although America was originally colonized predominantly by adherents of the Christian religion, and principally by Protestants, the Founding Fathers steadfastly conformed to this all-embracing character of the approach of the American philosophy to religion. This was expressly and affirmatively indicated in the proclamation of 1776 of the fundamental American philosophy, of its basic principles, in the Declaration of Independence. This was further indicated, negatively, in 1787-1788 by the Framers and Ratifiers of the Constitution...as a "blueprint" for the structure of the then proposed Federal government, with strictly limited powers--by not permitting it to possess any power with regard to religion.
This implied prohibition against the Federal government was reinforced by the addition of the First Amendment expressly prohibiting it, through the Congress, from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."--the words "an establishment of religion" being intended to mean, specifically and only, a church or religious organization which is established, supported and preferred by the government, like the Church of England establishments then existing in some of the States.
The Conclusion
8. Belief in Man's Divine origin is the foundation of the fundamental American principle which controls his relationship to government: that Man--The Individual--is of supreme dignity and value because of his spiritual nature.
The American ideal of 1776: The Twelve Basic American Principles by Hamilton Abert Long
"....all men are created...endowed by their Creator..." (Declaration of Independence)
The Principle
1. The fundamental principle underlying the traditional American philosophy is that the Spiritual is supreme--that Man is of Divine origin and his spiritual, or religious, nature is of supreme value and importance compared with things material.
Religious Nature
2. This governmental philosophy is, therefore, essentially religious in nature. It is uniquely American; no other people in all history have ever made this principle the basis of their governmental philosophy. The spiritual brotherhood of men under the common fatherhood of God is a concept which is basic to this American philosophy. It expresses the spiritual relationship of God to Man and, in the light thereof, of Man to Man. To forget these truths is a most heinous offense against the spirit of traditional America because the greatest sin is the lost consciousness of sin.
The fundamentally religious basis of this philosophy is the foundation of its moral code, which contemplates The Individual's moral duty as being created by God's Law: the Natural Law. The Individual's duty requires obedience to this Higher Law; while knowledge of this duty comes from conscience, which the religious-minded and morally-aware Individual feels duty-bound to heed. This philosophy asserts that there are moral absolutes: truths, such as those mentioned above, which are binding upon all Individuals at all times under all circumstances. This indicates some of the spiritual and moral values which are inherent in its concept of Individual Liberty-Responsibility.
An Indivisible Whole
3. The American philosophy, based upon this principle, is an indivisible whole and must be accepted or rejected as such. It cannot be treated piece-meal. Its fundamentals and its implicit meanings and obligations must be accepted together with its benefits.
The Individual's Self-respect
4. The concept of Man's spiritual nature, and the resulting concept of the supreme dignity and value of each Individual, provide the fundamental basis for each Individual's self-respect and the consequent mutual respect among Individual's. This self-respect as well as this mutual respect are the outgrowth of, and evidenced by, The Individual's maintenance of his God-given, unalienable rights. They are maintained by requiring that government and other Individuals respect them, as well as by his dedication to his own unceasing growth toward realization of his highest potential-- spiritually, morally, intellectually, in every aspect of life. This is in order that he may merit maximum respect by self and by others.
Some Things Excluded
5. This concept of Man's spiritual nature excludes any idea of intrusion by government into this Man-to-Man spiritual relationship. It excludes the anti-moral precept that the end justifies the means and the related idea that the means can be separated from the end when judging them morally. This concept therefore excludes necessarily any idea of attempting to do good by force--for instance, through coercion of Man by Government, whether or not claimed to be for his own good or for the so-called common good or general welfare.
It excludes disbelief in--even doubt as to the existence of--God as the Creator of Man: and therefore excludes all ideas, theories and schools of thought--however ethical and lofty in intentions--which reject affirmative and positive belief in God as Man's Creator.
The Truly American Concept
6. Only those ideas, programs and practices, regarding things governmental, which are consistent with the concept that "The Spiritual is supreme" can justly be claimed to be truly American traditionally. Anything and everything governmental, which is in conflict with this concept, is non-American--judged by traditional belief.
This applies particularly to that which is agnostic, or atheistic--neutral about, or hostile to, positive and affirmative belief in this concept based upon belief in God as Man's Creator. There is not room for doubt, much less disbelief, in this regard from the standpoint of the traditional American philosophy. Its indivisible nature makes this inescapably true. This pertains, of course, to the realm of ideas and not to any person; it is the conflicting idea which is classified as non-American, according to this philosophy.
America a Haven For All Religions
7. The traditional American philosophy teaches that belief in God is the fundamental link which unites the adherents of all religions in a spiritual brotherhood. This philosophy allows for no differentiation between them in this unifying conviction: ". . . all men are created . . . endowed by their Creator . . ." This philosophy is all inclusive as to believers in God. Although America was originally colonized predominantly by adherents of the Christian religion, and principally by Protestants, the Founding Fathers steadfastly conformed to this all-embracing character of the approach of the American philosophy to religion. This was expressly and affirmatively indicated in the proclamation of 1776 of the fundamental American philosophy, of its basic principles, in the Declaration of Independence. This was further indicated, negatively, in 1787-1788 by the Framers and Ratifiers of the Constitution...as a "blueprint" for the structure of the then proposed Federal government, with strictly limited powers--by not permitting it to possess any power with regard to religion.
This implied prohibition against the Federal government was reinforced by the addition of the First Amendment expressly prohibiting it, through the Congress, from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."--the words "an establishment of religion" being intended to mean, specifically and only, a church or religious organization which is established, supported and preferred by the government, like the Church of England establishments then existing in some of the States.
The Conclusion
8. Belief in Man's Divine origin is the foundation of the fundamental American principle which controls his relationship to government: that Man--The Individual--is of supreme dignity and value because of his spiritual nature.
The American ideal of 1776: The Twelve Basic American Principles by Hamilton Abert Long
H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
I did not accuse anyone of anything.
But I am down with this, just be sure to remember this next time you talk about the election being stolen.
I don't see what she said to be any big deal.
First off the actual words 'separation of church and state' are not in the Constitution. We all know what the intention was, it was so that the government did not establish or control a particular religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
Second, I think what has got everyone in a twit about here is when she says: “The church is supposed to direct the government” per the founding fathers.
I think what she's likely getting at, is when she says "the church" she means the people of the church as private citizens, and NOT the church as an established religion.
First off the actual words 'separation of church and state' are not in the Constitution. We all know what the intention was, it was so that the government did not establish or control a particular religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
Second, I think what has got everyone in a twit about here is when she says: “The church is supposed to direct the government” per the founding fathers.
I think what she's likely getting at, is when she says "the church" she means the people of the church as private citizens, and NOT the church as an established religion.
Natural Citizen
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One thing is absolutely certain to anyone capable of competent, mature, unbiased observation. The gradual and constant erosion of virtue in society is the most dangerous and silent threat to Individual liberty in America today.
Natural Citizen
American Made
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Yeah. Pretty much.
DC critters aren't very articulate, unfortunately.
Discussions/threads like these have a great deal of potential. They're necessary.
Unfortunately, the wrong people, most often those having the most corrupt and disingenuous of intent, notwithstanding their own lack of understanding and self-awareness, tend to initiate them and it's all downhill and straight into the gutter from there. It's a shame, really.
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